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i just don't think payton is the answer....

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; he has the mindset of bb, but he does'nt come through..... it took less than a yr for other teams to figure him out, some less, and he can't get it done...... sure, it's early, but i have a gut ...

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Old 12-23-2007, 03:07 PM   #1
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i just don't think payton is the answer....

he has the mindset of bb, but he does'nt come through.....
it took less than a yr for other teams to figure him out,
some less, and he can't get it done......
sure, it's early, but i have a gut feeling on this one....
we were done at 0-4, and it should have never gotten to that,
but, here we are and what's done is done........
next yr? i'll wait again............smitty
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Old 12-23-2007, 03:23 PM   #2
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Re: i just don't think payton is the answer....

Keep your head up smitty. Payton will get us back into the playoffs next year. We weren't working with much on defense this year... that won't be the case next season.
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:15 PM   #3
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Re: i just don't think payton is the answer....

The only problem I worry about with Payton is that, yeah, we didn't have much of a defense to work with this year, but I don't think he's going to do jack about it in the offseason. He drafted Robert Meachem last year instead of a defensive player and then continued to ignore the defense for the rest of the draft/offseason.
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:27 PM   #4
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Re: i just don't think payton is the answer....

No way I'd get rid of Payton, he's a good coach with an awful defense, he'll work with Lommis this off season to get better I'm sure.
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Old 12-23-2007, 05:42 PM   #5
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Re: i just don't think payton is the answer....

ssmitty... calm down bro... if payton can squeeze 7 wins out of a team whose defense: 1. can't create pressure on the quarterback 2. can't cover in the backfield, on offense: 1. who's running game is non-existent and 2. passes the whole game, then the guy is a genius. if payton were really bad... we'd end up 4-12 at the worst.

think about that for a minute.
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Old 12-23-2007, 05:47 PM   #6
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Re: i just don't think payton is the answer....

I have Faith and Trust in Coach Payton. It was his second year as a Head Coach.
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Old 12-23-2007, 08:30 PM   #7
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Re: i just don't think payton is the answer....

LOL it is only year 2. We got banged up this year. Last year we stayed healthy. That is a big part of to. I still say we are a better team today than we were last year. Now finish the offense for the love of god and lets move on to the defense.
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:06 AM   #8
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Re: i just don't think payton is the answer....

I wasn't trying to sound like I don't think Payton is the answer, because I think he can be, but I do think that he mishandles his personnel. His playcalling also, frankly, blows sometimes. Swing passes and screens don't work every down and it makes me want to pull my hair out when I see a screen pass on 3rd and long that gets 2 yards, or a swing pass on 3rd and 3 that gets run out of bounds at the line of scrimmage. He's a good coach, and he's done a good job, in total, over the last two seasons, I just wish he would iron out some of the issues that we've seen this year.
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:23 AM   #9
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Re: i just don't think payton is the answer....

Originally Posted by papz View Post
Keep your head up smitty. Payton will get us back into the playoffs next year. We weren't working with much on defense this year... that won't be the case next season.
Papz,

What makes you think that the defense is going to be any different next year?The team spent time and picks getting new folks, who fundamentally never hit the field. Most of us believe that Simineau must have pictures of Payton and Gibbs doing something obscene with a farm animal because there's no way the guy should be on the field. The talent evaluators and coaches picked up Jason David, who shall we say has been less than stellar this season. The scheme has issues too.

So what's going to be different next year? Different talent? Different coaches? Different scheme?

I wait impatiently to see how this defense is going to improve.

SFIAH

Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO

Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:22 AM   #10
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Re: i just don't think payton is the answer....

Originally Posted by ssmitty View Post
he has the mindset of bb, but he does'nt come through.....
it took less than a yr for other teams to figure him out,
some less, and he can't get it done......
sure, it's early, but i have a gut feeling on this one....
I held off posting for a day to try to give yesterday's game time to fade from my memory, but I have to agree with this post 100%. Payton does so many things wrong, I think our players are winning games in spite of him, rather than with his assistance.

When his game plan works for a particular week, everything's OK. When his game plan isn't working, he rides that failed effort all day long - never adjusts. Our entire offense seems to be misdirection and trick plays. That helps other teams predict the potential for trick plays. No one is fooled any more. Do you notice how opposing defenses always seem to be in position to blow up our plays?

He gambles too much. I'm not saying that gambling is bad, when its used in moderation. It's like he can't turn it off. He challenges meaningless plays, seemingly without any of "our" booth review - thus wasting time outs. He tries to force plays when its obvious to everyone (including my football-clueless wife) that we need to try something different. His gambling cost us two wins this year.

He's not much good at talent evaluation. I know everyone just screamed "Colston" at the monitor, but if he thought Colston was any good - he wouldn't have waited until the seventh to pick him up. The rest of his draft (in both years) is spotty at best - Reggie not withstanding (I think he'll be a fine RB shortly). Additionally, he values work-ethic more than talent and skill on the field. He likes guys who bring their lunch pail to work and will keep them on the field seemingly just because they try hard. It doesn't matter that they're getting beat all over the place - the guy tries hard so he's a "Payton Guy" and play in spite of the fact that we can all see his backup outplaying him when they're on the field. That's very heartwarming but not much good to the team, the owners or the fans. It seems to be the same with coaches - with inferior guys running the show (though I'm not sure how much influence Payton has over the coaching staff - so I give him a pass on that one).

The players are losing (if they haven't already lost) faith in him. How many of you noticed the way the players are reacting to him now? I can't hear what they're saying to each other, but their body language is telling. It resembles how people behave when they are around that one guy at work that everyone finds annoying and "full of it", but for the sake of politeness they endure his presence. I even saw Charles Grant reach out a hand as if to say "Get away from me" when Payton was walking alongside him trying to talk to him.

Those are the things I see when I evaluate my beloved Saints. It's just my opinion, but I think it's accurate. Payton is not a good coach. Good coaches I see around the league seemingly struggle for several years while they build a good team. The teach fundamentals while they build the talent they need. The teams they are building seem to play hard, but still lose more than they win for a while - but they play solid fundamental football. Then when the talent joins the team, they start to win and compete consistently and win lots of football games. We were all drinking the kool-aid from last year's magical fluke - but that's not how a good coach works. Our fundamentals are awful on both sides of the ball and our players do not play with discipline.

Everyone in the league was shocked by Payton's new style of "gamble-ball" and it worked for a year while people figured it out. Now we're seeing what kind of coach he really is, when his one surprise trick has been taken away. Weekly we get to watch as our team is over-matched, out-coached, and humbled (lots of times even when the scoreboards shows that we won).
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