Looking for a new head coach?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-01-2008, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

When I see Sean starting to gut our team like Haz did then I will agree. But as long as he is moving forward with the team I have his back. This team despite it record is better than last years. I hate to be redundant. Offense is deeper and the defense has improved. despite all the injuries.

Hagan,

I can't see the defensive side of your equation. Every time I see the Saints defense all I see is poor scheme, poor technique, and poor personnel choices. It's obvious to everyone except the Saints coaching staff that:

1) David, Simineaux,. Shanlee, and Bullucks are awful.

2) The Saints secondary cannot cover a rock, much less NFL WRs.

3) The lack of pressure makes NFL jouneymen (and insurance salesmen) elevate to the likes of Montana, Elway, Farve, and Manning.

4) The defense cannot get off the field, get a turnover, stop a 3rd down ever, or stop the big play.

Everytime the defense trotted out on the field this season, I cringed. They never got better, never adjusted, never pressured, nothing.

So explain it to me.

We have learned that our WR are not as deep as we thought. So the Meachem pick makes more sense. RB is deeper than we thought and keeping PT was the right move. So all the moves did work but some are clear as day. Sean in his sophomore season has learned a lot. I doubt Drew will be going for the passing record again next year. Colston will have help at WR. Our secondary will be addressed and YOUNG WILL NOT BE THE LONE YOUNG CB ON THE ROSTER. So on and so on. I have faith in things changing again and once again all in the right direction. FORWARD

I don't see it on the defensive side. The defense needs to be blown up and rebuilt from scratch. The Saints need to spend every dime, every pick, every free agent meeting, every coaching change, EVERYTHING on defense this offseason. Fire Gibbs and get someone in here that understands pressure. Get staff in here that can evaluate defensive talent. Spend the money on big time talent.

Do it differently because the defensive product on the field now isn't working.

SFIAH

abutler · 01-01-2008, 12:41 PM

SFIAH thanks for your comments. You were right on about the defense. I have a big problem with your belief that the weather did not have an affect on the NFC Championship. I was there to. Drew's passes in warm ups were all trailing right and high. That's because the ball loses its tackiness in freezing weather. Colton dropped a couple passes wide open over the middle, that's because the ball hits like a ton of bricks when its freezing. We had several fumbles in the first half. Why? WE WEREN'T READY. Whose responsibility is it to have the team ready?
When it rains there is an impact on the game. When it snows and is sub-freezing I would think that it would be necessary and common sense to acclimate before game time. Players need to re-learn how the ball flies in cold weather, how it hits, how it feels, how good the footing is, how to run routes as crisply as possible without falling, how to pursue a running back without giving away the jook. There is a lot to know. I grew up in the deep south as a quarterback and played some ball in Wisconsin. I lived up there for 5 years. Throwing, catching, and running is completely different. We are a dome team! How genius does Sean Payton have to be to figure that out. Football doesn't need to be genius. It needs to be common sense. Sean's brain has him so confused that he's forgotten the importance of fundamental football strategy, point scoring, clock management, and preparation. Do you think a coach in the earlier years of the NFL would have showed up on Saturday night for a Sunday Championship? Not if it meant something to him. Only a rookie would be satisfied getting there. If we want to be champions, we need a champion as a coach. It's only my observation.
I'm sorry if I offend some people. I love football and the Saints.

Fleured · 01-01-2008, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by frankeefrank

I hold my head coaches to a high standard...
Make the team better and
never post a losing record...

Sean Payton has failed in both areas to me.
Sure it might be a tough statement to make, but I offer this as my reasoning.
Vince Lombardi never posted a losing record as a HC and after losing his first championship game...
Rattled off 9 wins .
He stated, "we will never lose this game again" and didn't.

Now Lombardi is a legend, and hard to compare to.
But that is what I want from my team's head coach...
And Payton this season (7-9) failed...

Sorry guys,
We are now looking for a new head coach.

Let's not hold 50 other well-compensated individuals responsible for oft-times lackluster performance. We gave even Haslett and Ditka more time.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-01-2008, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by abutler

SFIAH thanks for your comments. You were right on about the defense. I have a big problem with your belief that the weather did not have an affect on the NFC Championship. I was there to. Drew's passes in warm ups were all trailing right and high. That's because the ball loses its tackiness in freezing weather. Colton dropped a couple passes wide open over the middle, that's because the ball hits like a ton of bricks when its freezing. We had several fumbles in the first half. Why? WE WEREN'T READY. Whose responsibility is it to have the team ready?
When it rains there is an impact on the game. When it snows and is sub-freezing I would think that it would be necessary and common sense to acclimate before game time. Players need to re-learn how the ball flies in cold weather, how it hits, how it feels, how good the footing is, how to run routes as crisply as possible without falling, how to pursue a running back without giving away the jook. There is a lot to know. I grew up in the deep south as a quarterback and played some ball in Wisconsin. I lived up there for 5 years. Throwing, catching, and running is completely different. We are a dome team! How genius does Sean Payton have to be to figure that out. Football doesn't need to be genius. It needs to be common sense. Sean's brain has him so confused that he's forgotten the importance of fundamental football strategy, point scoring, clock management, and preparation. Do you think a coach in the earlier years of the NFL would have showed up on Saturday night for a Sunday Championship? Not if it meant something to him. Only a rookie would be satisfied getting there. If we want to be champions, we need a champion as a coach. It's only my observation.
I'm sorry if I offend some people. I love football and the Saints.

No offense taken. 3 days or 3 weeks wouldn't have mattered. The Saints were not committed to running the ball in the game. Also the defense couldn't stop the run. It was a doomed mission from the start.

The only question about Payton and the Saints organization is whether or not they are willing to step up and blow up the defense this offeseason and remake it. If not, then you'll know what their level of committment to winning is going to be.

Offense is flashy and cool, I agree. But at the end of the day of you cannot consistently stop the other guy, then it's all moot.

SFIAH

Budsdrinker · 01-01-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by frankeefrank

Yes the only coaches who shouldn't be fired are Dungy and Belichik.
I want the best... sorry you all settle for less.
Don't make me lower my standards. No coach who is worth their weight should ever lose 9 games in a season with the talent we have. period.

Just out of curiosity, who are all the talent the Saints have that played the entire season? Brees, Colston who else? Inconsistent Henderson? Lost Deuce after 3rd game. We have a few talented players and a whole lot of average players. The offensive line can pass block and that is it. When you can't blow people off of the line for a 1 yard gain, (Eagles game Bears game)you are an average lineman. If we have that much talent where is our pro bowl representative? The Saints are in rebuilding mode and we never should have been in the championship game last year. 2008 is the year that I would expect nothing less than a 10 win season. Now if we fall short in 2008, then you may call for a change.

abutler · 01-02-2008, 12:08 PM

3 days or 3 weeks would have mattered to me. Because I wouldn't have these doubts about the committment or common sense of our head coach. Atleast he would look like he gave it his best. That's all I can ask for from anyone and everyone. You learn from trying your best. If you have to learn how to try your best then we are in big trouble. I believe that is what I'm seeing. Those doubts were solidified over this year. Everyone keeps telling me, give him a chance, he's learning. He should've learned clock management in pee-wee ball. He's running a multi-million dollar business. How does he not know better?

Johnny Moronic · 01-02-2008, 02:15 PM

This is ridiculous. Barring a complete meltdown Sean Payton has earned 4 or 5 years in my book. Hell, we were in the playoff race till the final week of the regular season. How many teams never had a shot? I've sat through so many awful saints seasons, i don't mind giving a coach some time to do his thing. 7-9? do you remember what 3-13 felt like? Thank god no rational fans feel this way and that management would never do anything so STUPID.

abutler · 01-02-2008, 02:35 PM

Good for you Mr. Moronic. I'm glad that since you are so used to us being sub par in football that you have acquired a God like sense of patience for the organization. I want us to win. We can. We should. Coming up short of the playoffs when we had so many losses we could have avioded lights me afire. Especially when we have one of the best quarterbacks in the league for the first time ever! I was there at most of our games in Baton Rouge when we went 3-13. I lost everything in the storm just like our football team. I was off my game that year to. I'm grateful we still played. Don't think that a 3-13 season justifies a mediocre season now. That's settling for crap. The Saint players are disgusted with this year. Why are you content?

Euphoria · 01-02-2008, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by abutler

Good for you Mr. Moronic. I'm glad that since you are so used to us being sub par in football that you have acquired a God like sense of patience for the organization. I want us to win. We can. We should. Coming up short of the playoffs when we had so many losses we could have avioded lights me afire. Especially when we have one of the best quarterbacks in the league for the first time ever! I was there at most of our games in Baton Rouge when we went 3-13. I lost everything in the storm just like our football team. I was off my game that year to. I'm grateful we still played. Don't think that a 3-13 season justifies a mediocre season now. That's settling for crap. The Saint players are disgusted with this year. Why are you content?

Well you can always go cheer for the Patriots. I think everyone is a bit disappointed with this years performance after the great year before.

I think some people seem to forget its not your team at all. Its Tom Benson - You are just allowed to live in his world.

I think also the general consensus is that Sean Payton is going to be here another year plus... so deal with it wether you like it or not.

SoulStar · 01-02-2008, 03:01 PM

Fickle....thats the word that continues to come to mind as I read this topic. Dikta, Haslett, Mora.....no one was saying lets fire these guys after the 2nd year on the job. I wouldnt say anyone is content, but I really think the Saints over achived last year. I dont see anyone in New York calling for Mangini's *Sp?* head with the Jets. Mike Nolan still has a job in San Fran, no one is calling for his head. It took how many years for the Ravens to finally fire Billeck, who by the way is an offenseive minded coach....he was brought in to put points on the board......as many of us know the ravens still havent found an offense.

01-01-2008, 11:18 AM	#41
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Looking for a new head coach? Originally Posted by hagan714 When I see Sean starting to gut our team like Haz did then I will agree. But as long as he is moving forward with the team I have his back. This team despite it record is better than last years. I hate to be redundant. Offense is deeper and the defense has improved. despite all the injuries. Hagan, I can't see the defensive side of your equation. Every time I see the Saints defense all I see is poor scheme, poor technique, and poor personnel choices. It's obvious to everyone except the Saints coaching staff that: 1) David, Simineaux,. Shanlee, and Bullucks are awful. 2) The Saints secondary cannot cover a rock, much less NFL WRs. 3) The lack of pressure makes NFL jouneymen (and insurance salesmen) elevate to the likes of Montana, Elway, Farve, and Manning. 4) The defense cannot get off the field, get a turnover, stop a 3rd down ever, or stop the big play. Everytime the defense trotted out on the field this season, I cringed. They never got better, never adjusted, never pressured, nothing. So explain it to me. We have learned that our WR are not as deep as we thought. So the Meachem pick makes more sense. RB is deeper than we thought and keeping PT was the right move. So all the moves did work but some are clear as day. Sean in his sophomore season has learned a lot. I doubt Drew will be going for the passing record again next year. Colston will have help at WR. Our secondary will be addressed and YOUNG WILL NOT BE THE LONE YOUNG CB ON THE ROSTER. So on and so on. I have faith in things changing again and once again all in the right direction. FORWARD I don't see it on the defensive side. The defense needs to be blown up and rebuilt from scratch. The Saints need to spend every dime, every pick, every free agent meeting, every coaching change, EVERYTHING on defense this offseason. Fire Gibbs and get someone in here that understands pressure. Get staff in here that can evaluate defensive talent. Spend the money on big time talent. Do it differently because the defensive product on the field now isn't working. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

01-01-2008, 12:41 PM	#42
abutler since 86 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Long Beach MS Posts: 23 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Looking for a new head coach? SFIAH thanks for your comments. You were right on about the defense. I have a big problem with your belief that the weather did not have an affect on the NFC Championship. I was there to. Drew's passes in warm ups were all trailing right and high. That's because the ball loses its tackiness in freezing weather. Colton dropped a couple passes wide open over the middle, that's because the ball hits like a ton of bricks when its freezing. We had several fumbles in the first half. Why? WE WEREN'T READY. Whose responsibility is it to have the team ready? When it rains there is an impact on the game. When it snows and is sub-freezing I would think that it would be necessary and common sense to acclimate before game time. Players need to re-learn how the ball flies in cold weather, how it hits, how it feels, how good the footing is, how to run routes as crisply as possible without falling, how to pursue a running back without giving away the jook. There is a lot to know. I grew up in the deep south as a quarterback and played some ball in Wisconsin. I lived up there for 5 years. Throwing, catching, and running is completely different. We are a dome team! How genius does Sean Payton have to be to figure that out. Football doesn't need to be genius. It needs to be common sense. Sean's brain has him so confused that he's forgotten the importance of fundamental football strategy, point scoring, clock management, and preparation. Do you think a coach in the earlier years of the NFL would have showed up on Saturday night for a Sunday Championship? Not if it meant something to him. Only a rookie would be satisfied getting there. If we want to be champions, we need a champion as a coach. It's only my observation. I'm sorry if I offend some people. I love football and the Saints.

01-01-2008, 01:26 PM	#43
Fleured The NY Geaux Getter Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 348	Re: Looking for a new head coach? Originally Posted by frankeefrank I hold my head coaches to a high standard... Make the team better and never post a losing record... Sean Payton has failed in both areas to me. Sure it might be a tough statement to make, but I offer this as my reasoning. Vince Lombardi never posted a losing record as a HC and after losing his first championship game... Rattled off 9 wins . He stated, "we will never lose this game again" and didn't. Now Lombardi is a legend, and hard to compare to. But that is what I want from my team's head coach... And Payton this season (7-9) failed... Sorry guys, We are now looking for a new head coach. Let's not hold 50 other well-compensated individuals responsible for oft-times lackluster performance. We gave even Haslett and Ditka more time.

01-01-2008, 02:00 PM	#44
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Looking for a new head coach? Originally Posted by abutler SFIAH thanks for your comments. You were right on about the defense. I have a big problem with your belief that the weather did not have an affect on the NFC Championship. I was there to. Drew's passes in warm ups were all trailing right and high. That's because the ball loses its tackiness in freezing weather. Colton dropped a couple passes wide open over the middle, that's because the ball hits like a ton of bricks when its freezing. We had several fumbles in the first half. Why? WE WEREN'T READY. Whose responsibility is it to have the team ready? When it rains there is an impact on the game. When it snows and is sub-freezing I would think that it would be necessary and common sense to acclimate before game time. Players need to re-learn how the ball flies in cold weather, how it hits, how it feels, how good the footing is, how to run routes as crisply as possible without falling, how to pursue a running back without giving away the jook. There is a lot to know. I grew up in the deep south as a quarterback and played some ball in Wisconsin. I lived up there for 5 years. Throwing, catching, and running is completely different. We are a dome team! How genius does Sean Payton have to be to figure that out. Football doesn't need to be genius. It needs to be common sense. Sean's brain has him so confused that he's forgotten the importance of fundamental football strategy, point scoring, clock management, and preparation. Do you think a coach in the earlier years of the NFL would have showed up on Saturday night for a Sunday Championship? Not if it meant something to him. Only a rookie would be satisfied getting there. If we want to be champions, we need a champion as a coach. It's only my observation. I'm sorry if I offend some people. I love football and the Saints. No offense taken. 3 days or 3 weeks wouldn't have mattered. The Saints were not committed to running the ball in the game. Also the defense couldn't stop the run. It was a doomed mission from the start. The only question about Payton and the Saints organization is whether or not they are willing to step up and blow up the defense this offeseason and remake it. If not, then you'll know what their level of committment to winning is going to be. Offense is flashy and cool, I agree. But at the end of the day of you cannot consistently stop the other guy, then it's all moot. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

01-01-2008, 05:03 PM	#45
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Looking for a new head coach? Originally Posted by frankeefrank Yes the only coaches who shouldn't be fired are Dungy and Belichik. I want the best... sorry you all settle for less. Don't make me lower my standards. No coach who is worth their weight should ever lose 9 games in a season with the talent we have. period. Just out of curiosity, who are all the talent the Saints have that played the entire season? Brees, Colston who else? Inconsistent Henderson? Lost Deuce after 3rd game. We have a few talented players and a whole lot of average players. The offensive line can pass block and that is it. When you can't blow people off of the line for a 1 yard gain, (Eagles game Bears game)you are an average lineman. If we have that much talent where is our pro bowl representative? The Saints are in rebuilding mode and we never should have been in the championship game last year. 2008 is the year that I would expect nothing less than a 10 win season. Now if we fall short in 2008, then you may call for a change.

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01-02-2008, 12:08 PM	#46
abutler since 86 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Long Beach MS Posts: 23 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Looking for a new head coach? 3 days or 3 weeks would have mattered to me. Because I wouldn't have these doubts about the committment or common sense of our head coach. Atleast he would look like he gave it his best. That's all I can ask for from anyone and everyone. You learn from trying your best. If you have to learn how to try your best then we are in big trouble. I believe that is what I'm seeing. Those doubts were solidified over this year. Everyone keeps telling me, give him a chance, he's learning. He should've learned clock management in pee-wee ball. He's running a multi-million dollar business. How does he not know better?

01-02-2008, 02:15 PM	#47
Johnny Moronic Rookie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama Posts: 9	Re: Looking for a new head coach? This is ridiculous. Barring a complete meltdown Sean Payton has earned 4 or 5 years in my book. Hell, we were in the playoff race till the final week of the regular season. How many teams never had a shot? I've sat through so many awful saints seasons, i don't mind giving a coach some time to do his thing. 7-9? do you remember what 3-13 felt like? Thank god no rational fans feel this way and that management would never do anything so STUPID.

01-02-2008, 02:35 PM	#48
abutler since 86 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Long Beach MS Posts: 23 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Looking for a new head coach? Good for you Mr. Moronic. I'm glad that since you are so used to us being sub par in football that you have acquired a God like sense of patience for the organization. I want us to win. We can. We should. Coming up short of the playoffs when we had so many losses we could have avioded lights me afire. Especially when we have one of the best quarterbacks in the league for the first time ever! I was there at most of our games in Baton Rouge when we went 3-13. I lost everything in the storm just like our football team. I was off my game that year to. I'm grateful we still played. Don't think that a 3-13 season justifies a mediocre season now. That's settling for crap. The Saint players are disgusted with this year. Why are you content?

01-02-2008, 02:57 PM	#49
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Looking for a new head coach? Originally Posted by abutler Good for you Mr. Moronic. I'm glad that since you are so used to us being sub par in football that you have acquired a God like sense of patience for the organization. I want us to win. We can. We should. Coming up short of the playoffs when we had so many losses we could have avioded lights me afire. Especially when we have one of the best quarterbacks in the league for the first time ever! I was there at most of our games in Baton Rouge when we went 3-13. I lost everything in the storm just like our football team. I was off my game that year to. I'm grateful we still played. Don't think that a 3-13 season justifies a mediocre season now. That's settling for crap. The Saint players are disgusted with this year. Why are you content? Well you can always go cheer for the Patriots. I think everyone is a bit disappointed with this years performance after the great year before. I think some people seem to forget its not your team at all. Its Tom Benson - You are just allowed to live in his world. I think also the general consensus is that Sean Payton is going to be here another year plus... so deal with it wether you like it or not.

01-02-2008, 03:01 PM	#50
SoulStar 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arlington Tx Posts: 157	Re: Looking for a new head coach? Fickle....thats the word that continues to come to mind as I read this topic. Dikta, Haslett, Mora.....no one was saying lets fire these guys after the 2nd year on the job. I wouldnt say anyone is content, but I really think the Saints over achived last year. I dont see anyone in New York calling for Mangini's Sp? head with the Jets. Mike Nolan still has a job in San Fran, no one is calling for his head. It took how many years for the Ravens to finally fire Billeck, who by the way is an offenseive minded coach....he was brought in to put points on the board......as many of us know the ravens still havent found an offense.
	You say that were nuts for pulling for them, you call them sorry, you wonder why we deal with them year after year. Well New Orleans is like no other city in the world, and no fans are anything like saint fans.