Jets, can I have this dance

pakowitz · 03-12-2008, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by saintsmissile

The Saints DESPERATEY need a DT? Apparently the Saints don't think so with the resigning of B.Young. You now still have B.Young, H.Thomas, K.Clancy, A.Lake, Orein Harris and M.Boykin. Doesn't look like a team "desperate" to me. Now, you look at CB and this is what you have:

Craft at 35
Thomas at 34, think we let him go finally
G.Fassitt-WHO?
McKenzie-31 coming off major injury
Anwar Phillips-25 has done nada, even on the pratice squad
U.Young-22 jury still out on him
J.David-who care about his age, he sucks.

Compared to the CB's, the DT's all look like ALL PROS!

i think we do need a DT desperatly.. it would greatly help out our DEs if we can get some pressure from the middle forcing our opponents to double team the DTs

gandhi1007 · 03-12-2008, 09:03 PM

One thing I will say is that our QB pressure was horrible last year. Hell....even Joey Harrington looked decent against us with his 10 second drops. We had no rush at DT & they weren't stopping the run up the gut either. Another good DT & our ends won't be doubled constantly. Personally.....I think that without being doubled, Grant & Smith can do some damage. We really need a DT.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 03-13-2008, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by gandhi1007

One thing I will say is that our QB pressure was horrible last year. Hell....even Joey Harrington looked decent against us with his 10 second drops. We had no rush at DT & they weren't stopping the run up the gut either. Another good DT & our ends won't be doubled constantly. Personally.....I think that without being doubled, Grant & Smith can do some damage. We really need a DT.

Simple isn't it? Also having a stud DT will keep our pro bowl LBs clean. That way they'll be racking up all the tackles instead of the DBs.

SFIAH

cajunasian61 · 03-13-2008, 08:37 AM

I don't see what the argument is. Bth positions need to be upgraded. We definitely should not trade up, the draft is too deep especially at CB and LB, both positions we need. While I would jump all over either Dorsey or Ellis if they fell to 10, I don't see either as such a can't miss prospect that we would have to trade up for them. We should stay pat at 10 and hope one of the DT's is available, but if not we should get a quality CB who can contribute immediately.

As far as moving down, I would be all for that, but I really do not see any team wanting to do that, at least not for our 1st rounder. Other teams know its a deep draft too

Bobaganoosh · 03-13-2008, 11:13 AM

I am glad that some of you finally realize that drafting a CB in the first round isnt going to help us dramatically THIS YEAR. It may be a good pick for the long term but for this upcoming season, it doesnt do much. Thats why the best case scenario is to hope that Ellis falls to 10 and we can take a CB in round 2. That is what i am hoping for because that adds youth to the defense, enhances the pass rush, and we have another young CB to groom for the future.

Bobaganoosh · 03-13-2008, 02:08 PM

I understand that but dont you think adding a DT at 10 does more than add pass rush? Young is beaten down. Thomas is really getting up in age. Clancy and Lake are marginal players and certainly not every down guys. I think there needs to be an infusion of youth added all around our defense and i think adding a DT that can contribute right away is the best way to use the 10th pick in the draft. Adding a CB who doesnt belong in the top 10 and wont see the field much as a rookie doesnt really solve our problems this year nor does it enhance our chances of making the playoffs. If were picking in the 17-25 range, CB would be fine and i wouldnt mention a DT. I only want it to be a DT if it is Ellis or Dorsey because they would bring the most help to our team this year and long term. There are no CB's in this draft worthy of a top 10 selection.

ScottF · 03-13-2008, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bobaganoosh

There are no CB's in this draft worthy of a top 10 selection.

and that is the bottom line. Of course we desperately need a quality CB, but picking a guy at 10 doesn't make him Asante Samuel. If we can trade down and still take McElvin or DRC, then yes, let's go CB in the first, otherwise we might as well go BPA

gandhi1007 · 03-13-2008, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by saintsmissile

Uh, getting pass rush from DT's is not the strength of a 4-3. It should be coming from your ends. You "draft a DT with #10" guys kill me. Again, it is my opinion that our DT's are probably one of the most consistant of our defense. With our DB's and secondary beset with injuries, age and flat out just no talent, you guys STILL want to go after a player in a DT who would be a PARTIAL player at best! Here's what ESPN had to say about our "middle" defense which directly relates to our DT's. DT's MAIN priority is to stop the run and according to these comments, it looks like they pretty much did that last season. I would like someone here to post the top 3 pass rushing DT's last year and tell me how many sacks they actually had compared to our guys. Course, our numbers are skewed due to Young's injury last season. Here is ESPN's comments concerning our DT's.

In fact, not only did New Orleans have a good run defense last year, but that run defense was strongest up the middle. The Saints ranked 10th in Adjusted Line Yards (explained here) on runs listed in the play-by-play as up the middle or behind a guard. However, they ranked 29th against runs around left end and 26th against runs around right end.

Huh????

1st...DE's are able to rush the passer by NOT being double-teamed. You beat the double team on your DE's by having DT's that have to be accounted for. We don't have that. Notice our QB pressure dropped off last year? That is because our DE's are being double teamed. Know why? Our DT's are not respected.

Second...I don't know what games you were watching, but everybody we played had their success rushing right up the gut. Hence the term "Adjusted" line yards. Not saying we had much success on the edge, but our DT's played horrible. The LB's don't get a pass either, but that has been addressed.

Now...I think CB is our biggest need, but I don't like addressing CB in the draft. Make a trade for a good veteran. That said, DT is a glaring hole as well & there are some studs in this year's draft (though they are very few).

hagan714 · 03-13-2008, 08:37 PM

I like a CB in 2 and even 3. reaching in three for a top notch project type, like Young. LOL that should raise some comments

Bobaganoosh · 03-13-2008, 10:51 PM

If Ellis and Dorsey are gone, i would like the Saints to go

1) Keith Rivers
2) Dre Moore
3) Chevis Jackson

That way all of our needs would be met and we could have something to work with on defense.

03-12-2008, 07:25 PM	#21
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Jets, can I have this dance Originally Posted by saintsmissile The Saints DESPERATEY need a DT? Apparently the Saints don't think so with the resigning of B.Young. You now still have B.Young, H.Thomas, K.Clancy, A.Lake, Orein Harris and M.Boykin. Doesn't look like a team "desperate" to me. Now, you look at CB and this is what you have: Craft at 35 Thomas at 34, think we let him go finally G.Fassitt-WHO? McKenzie-31 coming off major injury Anwar Phillips-25 has done nada, even on the pratice squad U.Young-22 jury still out on him J.David-who care about his age, he sucks. Compared to the CB's, the DT's all look like ALL PROS! i think we do need a DT desperatly.. it would greatly help out our DEs if we can get some pressure from the middle forcing our opponents to double team the DTs

03-12-2008, 09:03 PM	#22
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: Jets, can I have this dance One thing I will say is that our QB pressure was horrible last year. Hell....even Joey Harrington looked decent against us with his 10 second drops. We had no rush at DT & they weren't stopping the run up the gut either. Another good DT & our ends won't be doubled constantly. Personally.....I think that without being doubled, Grant & Smith can do some damage. We really need a DT.

03-13-2008, 06:22 AM	#23
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Jets, can I have this dance Originally Posted by gandhi1007 One thing I will say is that our QB pressure was horrible last year. Hell....even Joey Harrington looked decent against us with his 10 second drops. We had no rush at DT & they weren't stopping the run up the gut either. Another good DT & our ends won't be doubled constantly. Personally.....I think that without being doubled, Grant & Smith can do some damage. We really need a DT. Simple isn't it? Also having a stud DT will keep our pro bowl LBs clean. That way they'll be racking up all the tackles instead of the DBs. SFIAH

03-13-2008, 08:37 AM	#24
cajunasian61 Registered Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Evansville, IN (Where is that?) Posts: 64	Re: Jets, can I have this dance I don't see what the argument is. Bth positions need to be upgraded. We definitely should not trade up, the draft is too deep especially at CB and LB, both positions we need. While I would jump all over either Dorsey or Ellis if they fell to 10, I don't see either as such a can't miss prospect that we would have to trade up for them. We should stay pat at 10 and hope one of the DT's is available, but if not we should get a quality CB who can contribute immediately. As far as moving down, I would be all for that, but I really do not see any team wanting to do that, at least not for our 1st rounder. Other teams know its a deep draft too

03-13-2008, 11:13 AM	#25
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Jets, can I have this dance I am glad that some of you finally realize that drafting a CB in the first round isnt going to help us dramatically THIS YEAR. It may be a good pick for the long term but for this upcoming season, it doesnt do much. Thats why the best case scenario is to hope that Ellis falls to 10 and we can take a CB in round 2. That is what i am hoping for because that adds youth to the defense, enhances the pass rush, and we have another young CB to groom for the future.

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03-13-2008, 02:08 PM	#26
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Jets, can I have this dance I understand that but dont you think adding a DT at 10 does more than add pass rush? Young is beaten down. Thomas is really getting up in age. Clancy and Lake are marginal players and certainly not every down guys. I think there needs to be an infusion of youth added all around our defense and i think adding a DT that can contribute right away is the best way to use the 10th pick in the draft. Adding a CB who doesnt belong in the top 10 and wont see the field much as a rookie doesnt really solve our problems this year nor does it enhance our chances of making the playoffs. If were picking in the 17-25 range, CB would be fine and i wouldnt mention a DT. I only want it to be a DT if it is Ellis or Dorsey because they would bring the most help to our team this year and long term. There are no CB's in this draft worthy of a top 10 selection.
	It's all in the reflexes.

03-13-2008, 04:21 PM	#27
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Jets, can I have this dance Originally Posted by Bobaganoosh There are no CB's in this draft worthy of a top 10 selection. and that is the bottom line. Of course we desperately need a quality CB, but picking a guy at 10 doesn't make him Asante Samuel. If we can trade down and still take McElvin or DRC, then yes, let's go CB in the first, otherwise we might as well go BPA

03-13-2008, 04:49 PM	#28
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: Jets, can I have this dance Originally Posted by saintsmissile Uh, getting pass rush from DT's is not the strength of a 4-3. It should be coming from your ends. You "draft a DT with #10" guys kill me. Again, it is my opinion that our DT's are probably one of the most consistant of our defense. With our DB's and secondary beset with injuries, age and flat out just no talent, you guys STILL want to go after a player in a DT who would be a PARTIAL player at best! Here's what ESPN had to say about our "middle" defense which directly relates to our DT's. DT's MAIN priority is to stop the run and according to these comments, it looks like they pretty much did that last season. I would like someone here to post the top 3 pass rushing DT's last year and tell me how many sacks they actually had compared to our guys. Course, our numbers are skewed due to Young's injury last season. Here is ESPN's comments concerning our DT's. In fact, not only did New Orleans have a good run defense last year, but that run defense was strongest up the middle. The Saints ranked 10th in Adjusted Line Yards (explained here) on runs listed in the play-by-play as up the middle or behind a guard. However, they ranked 29th against runs around left end and 26th against runs around right end. Huh???? 1st...DE's are able to rush the passer by NOT being double-teamed. You beat the double team on your DE's by having DT's that have to be accounted for. We don't have that. Notice our QB pressure dropped off last year? That is because our DE's are being double teamed. Know why? Our DT's are not respected. Second...I don't know what games you were watching, but everybody we played had their success rushing right up the gut. Hence the term "Adjusted" line yards. Not saying we had much success on the edge, but our DT's played horrible. The LB's don't get a pass either, but that has been addressed. Now...I think CB is our biggest need, but I don't like addressing CB in the draft. Make a trade for a good veteran. That said, DT is a glaring hole as well & there are some studs in this year's draft (though they are very few).
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03-13-2008, 08:37 PM	#29
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Jets, can I have this dance I like a CB in 2 and even 3. reaching in three for a top notch project type, like Young. LOL that should raise some comments

03-13-2008, 10:51 PM	#30
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Jets, can I have this dance If Ellis and Dorsey are gone, i would like the Saints to go 1) Keith Rivers 2) Dre Moore 3) Chevis Jackson That way all of our needs would be met and we could have something to work with on defense.