pass on the top dt's?

ssmitty · 03-17-2008, 04:52 AM

Is it sack-religious to suggest passing on DTs Dorsey, Ellis?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 03-17-2008, 06:25 AM

The Giants strategy of using a 3 DE set may have already been accomplished by the Saints by signing McCray. Move Grant inside and let him push the pocket.

SFIAH

saintsfan1976 · 03-17-2008, 07:00 AM

"So the question for NFL teams is, do you spend the high draft pick on a top-10 DT like Dorsey or Ellis, or do you try to drop down in the first round and take a player like Florida DE Derrick Harvey (20½ sacks), who weighed in at the combine in the 275-pound range, and build a front like the Giants or Colts? Harvey compares favorably to Tuck, with good size and the frame to add more bulk without sacrificing the initial burst and quickness that has been the key to his pass-rushing success.

In Round 2, a team could pick up a player like Lawrence Jackson, who recorded 30½ sacks at USC, but uses his hands well and has shown an ability to get inside penetration and stack and control the isolated blocker. He has the frame to add bulk, and could be a situational pass rusher inside for a 4-3 team."

"Getting a big run stuffer in the later rounds so your defense can get to passing situations and have your hybrid tackle ready to play may be the way to go."

Agreed. But does the same ring true for our CB needs this year?

Euphoria · 03-17-2008, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

The Giants strategy of using a 3 DE set may have already been accomplished by the Saints by signing McCray. Move Grant inside and let him push the pocket.

SFIAH

Moving Grant won't happen. You get another DT who can pass rush. Bring him in along with McCray on passing downs and put Grant in on running downs.

The problem is Grant isn't a notorious pass rusher. He can't pass rush from the out side he DEFINATELY won't be able to pass rush from the inside.

Euphoria · 03-17-2008, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

"So the question for NFL teams is, do you spend the high draft pick on a top-10 DT like Dorsey or Ellis, or do you try to drop down in the first round and take a player like Florida DE Derrick Harvey (20½ sacks), who weighed in at the combine in the 275-pound range, and build a front like the Giants or Colts? Harvey compares favorably to Tuck, with good size and the frame to add more bulk without sacrificing the initial burst and quickness that has been the key to his pass-rushing success.

In Round 2, a team could pick up a player like Lawrence Jackson, who recorded 30½ sacks at USC, but uses his hands well and has shown an ability to get inside penetration and stack and control the isolated blocker. He has the frame to add bulk, and could be a situational pass rusher inside for a 4-3 team."

"Getting a big run stuffer in the later rounds so your defense can get to passing situations and have your hybrid tackle ready to play may be the way to go."

Agreed. But does the same ring true for our CB needs this year?

Its about priorities. Getting a pass rush is the single most important thing we have to do this off season. We have a lot of money invested in the CB's and a full roster there. What we have to do is revamp that front 7 and get a pass rush.

What people fail to realize is that you can make your CB's look like all-pro if you get a damn pass rush going and consistant. QB has less time looking for an open WR and WR will get open against anyone if you give them enough time. RUSH RUSH RUSH. Giants have who at CB... NO NAMES but they won a SB because they got to Brady and ate his lunch.

I seriously don't think we can pass on a DT if Ellis or Dorsey is anywheres close to our pick... we go get them. If not then we can trade down. We will also be able to snag some quality players at other positions like WR even.

LordOfEntropy · 03-17-2008, 11:38 AM

I'm all for the trade down scenario. I've been beating that to death for months now, no surprise, you all are probably tired of hearing me say it. But here's one that might surprise you - if Ellis fell to us, I'd still consider trading down. If Ellis is going to be as good as everyone says, he won't fall to us anyway. But if he did - some team out there might be willing to break the bank to work out a trade with us.

I do want a 3 technique tackle this year, don't get me wrong. I definitely want one. But I would prefer a proven one over a rookie. In a nutshell, I want Dewayne Robertson. The last I heard, the deal between Denver and NY was going bad. If we traded down because another team was foaming at the mouth to get Ellis, we'd be well armed to pull the trigger with NY.

Would I mind if we drafted Ellis? Of course not, I'd love it. But would I mind if we traded down when he was on the board? No, not if Robertson was still out there.

But this is all pointless. Neither Dorsey nor Ellis will be on the board at #10.

mikesaintfan · 03-17-2008, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Giants have who at CB... NO NAMES but they won a SB because they got to Brady and ate his lunch.

NO NAMES?????
AARON ROSS and SAM MADISON

I do agree about the rush making them look better.

lsutigerfan · 03-17-2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by mikesaintfan

NO NAMES?????
AARON ROSS and SAM MADISON

I do agree about the rush making them look better.

And lets not forget the LSU Tigers Corey Webster.

rjakapeanut · 03-17-2008, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Moving Grant won't happen.

actually it will happen because they've already confirmed it will happen.

BIGEASY504 · 03-17-2008, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Moving Grant won't happen. You get another DT who can pass rush. Bring him in along with McCray on passing downs and put Grant in on running downs.

The problem is Grant isn't a notorious pass rusher. He can't pass rush from the out side he DEFINATELY won't be able to pass rush from the inside.

The Saints will do exactly what the Giants did to generate a pass rush. From the outside Grant doesn’t have the speed but can still get to the QB but Grant will have an advantage over an offensive guard with speed and power. With that being said, the need for a DT in the first round is not necessary. With McCray we have 3 quality DE’s and all can stop the run as well. We can get a DT in round 3 so LB/CB will be the position taken in the draft. And we should get the highest rated LB/CB available but I’m leaning towards USC/Keith Rivers

03-17-2008, 04:52 AM	#1
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	pass on the top dt's? Is it sack-religious to suggest passing on DTs Dorsey, Ellis?
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

03-17-2008, 06:25 AM	#2
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: pass on the top dt's? The Giants strategy of using a 3 DE set may have already been accomplished by the Saints by signing McCray. Move Grant inside and let him push the pocket. SFIAH

03-17-2008, 07:00 AM	#3
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,536 Blog Entries: 3	Re: pass on the top dt's? "So the question for NFL teams is, do you spend the high draft pick on a top-10 DT like Dorsey or Ellis, or do you try to drop down in the first round and take a player like Florida DE Derrick Harvey (20½ sacks), who weighed in at the combine in the 275-pound range, and build a front like the Giants or Colts? Harvey compares favorably to Tuck, with good size and the frame to add more bulk without sacrificing the initial burst and quickness that has been the key to his pass-rushing success. In Round 2, a team could pick up a player like Lawrence Jackson, who recorded 30½ sacks at USC, but uses his hands well and has shown an ability to get inside penetration and stack and control the isolated blocker. He has the frame to add bulk, and could be a situational pass rusher inside for a 4-3 team." "Getting a big run stuffer in the later rounds so your defense can get to passing situations and have your hybrid tackle ready to play may be the way to go." Agreed. But does the same ring true for our CB needs this year?

03-17-2008, 10:56 AM	#4
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: pass on the top dt's? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL The Giants strategy of using a 3 DE set may have already been accomplished by the Saints by signing McCray. Move Grant inside and let him push the pocket. SFIAH Moving Grant won't happen. You get another DT who can pass rush. Bring him in along with McCray on passing downs and put Grant in on running downs. The problem is Grant isn't a notorious pass rusher. He can't pass rush from the out side he DEFINATELY won't be able to pass rush from the inside.

03-17-2008, 11:00 AM	#5
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: pass on the top dt's? Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 "So the question for NFL teams is, do you spend the high draft pick on a top-10 DT like Dorsey or Ellis, or do you try to drop down in the first round and take a player like Florida DE Derrick Harvey (20½ sacks), who weighed in at the combine in the 275-pound range, and build a front like the Giants or Colts? Harvey compares favorably to Tuck, with good size and the frame to add more bulk without sacrificing the initial burst and quickness that has been the key to his pass-rushing success. In Round 2, a team could pick up a player like Lawrence Jackson, who recorded 30½ sacks at USC, but uses his hands well and has shown an ability to get inside penetration and stack and control the isolated blocker. He has the frame to add bulk, and could be a situational pass rusher inside for a 4-3 team." "Getting a big run stuffer in the later rounds so your defense can get to passing situations and have your hybrid tackle ready to play may be the way to go." Agreed. But does the same ring true for our CB needs this year? Its about priorities. Getting a pass rush is the single most important thing we have to do this off season. We have a lot of money invested in the CB's and a full roster there. What we have to do is revamp that front 7 and get a pass rush. What people fail to realize is that you can make your CB's look like all-pro if you get a damn pass rush going and consistant. QB has less time looking for an open WR and WR will get open against anyone if you give them enough time. RUSH RUSH RUSH. Giants have who at CB... NO NAMES but they won a SB because they got to Brady and ate his lunch. I seriously don't think we can pass on a DT if Ellis or Dorsey is anywheres close to our pick... we go get them. If not then we can trade down. We will also be able to snag some quality players at other positions like WR even.
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03-17-2008, 11:38 AM	#6
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Re: pass on the top dt's? I'm all for the trade down scenario. I've been beating that to death for months now, no surprise, you all are probably tired of hearing me say it. But here's one that might surprise you - if Ellis fell to us, I'd still consider trading down. If Ellis is going to be as good as everyone says, he won't fall to us anyway. But if he did - some team out there might be willing to break the bank to work out a trade with us. I do want a 3 technique tackle this year, don't get me wrong. I definitely want one. But I would prefer a proven one over a rookie. In a nutshell, I want Dewayne Robertson. The last I heard, the deal between Denver and NY was going bad. If we traded down because another team was foaming at the mouth to get Ellis, we'd be well armed to pull the trigger with NY. Would I mind if we drafted Ellis? Of course not, I'd love it. But would I mind if we traded down when he was on the board? No, not if Robertson was still out there. But this is all pointless. Neither Dorsey nor Ellis will be on the board at #10.
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03-17-2008, 11:39 AM	#7
mikesaintfan 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2006 Location: new jersey Posts: 1,070	Re: pass on the top dt's? Originally Posted by Euphoria Giants have who at CB... NO NAMES but they won a SB because they got to Brady and ate his lunch. NO NAMES????? AARON ROSS and SAM MADISON I do agree about the rush making them look better.

03-17-2008, 11:50 AM	#8
lsutigerfan 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: born And raised in NOLA, now live in Los Angeles Posts: 811	Re: pass on the top dt's? Originally Posted by mikesaintfan NO NAMES????? AARON ROSS and SAM MADISON I do agree about the rush making them look better. And lets not forget the LSU Tigers Corey Webster.

03-17-2008, 12:13 PM	#9
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204	Re: pass on the top dt's? Originally Posted by Euphoria Moving Grant won't happen. actually it will happen because they've already confirmed it will happen.
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204

03-17-2008, 12:55 PM	#10
BIGEASY504 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 487	Re: pass on the top dt's? Originally Posted by Euphoria Moving Grant won't happen. You get another DT who can pass rush. Bring him in along with McCray on passing downs and put Grant in on running downs. The problem is Grant isn't a notorious pass rusher. He can't pass rush from the out side he DEFINATELY won't be able to pass rush from the inside. The Saints will do exactly what the Giants did to generate a pass rush. From the outside Grant doesn’t have the speed but can still get to the QB but Grant will have an advantage over an offensive guard with speed and power. With that being said, the need for a DT in the first round is not necessary. With McCray we have 3 quality DE’s and all can stop the run as well. We can get a DT in round 3 so LB/CB will be the position taken in the draft. And we should get the highest rated LB/CB available but I’m leaning towards USC/Keith Rivers
BIGEASY504 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 487