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Time is needed to Build a D

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Ok we all want defense and we all want another dome patrol but we all want NOW. Well I did some digging and this is what I found for the saints to build that unit. 1980 Dick Nolan: LCB Dave ...

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Old 03-27-2008, 10:43 AM   #1
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Time is needed to Build a D

Ok we all want defense and we all want another dome patrol but we all want NOW. Well I did some digging and this is what I found for the saints to build that unit.

1980 Dick Nolan:

LCB Dave Waymer Notre Dame 6-1, 195, Round: 2 / # 41
QB, WR, P, CB Guido Merkens "Jack of all trades; Master of none." from Houston ( had to put him in LOL)
Saints traded RB Chuck Muncie to the San Diego Chargers for their No. 2 pick in 1981,

1981: Bum Phillips:
LB Rickey Jackson PIttsburgh 6-2, 243, Round 2 / # 51
DE/DT Frank Warren Auburn 6-4, 285, Rond 3 / # 57
CB Johnnie Poe Missouri, 6-1, 190, Round: 6 / # 144
NT Jim Wilks San Diego St. 6-5, 266, San Diego State Round: 12 / # 305

1982 Bum Phillips:
LDE Bruce Clark Penn State 6-3, 273, via CFL Toronto Argonauts, WLAF Barcelona Dragons. Drafted by GB round 1 / #4, they get our #12 pick in the 1984 draft for him.
NT Tony Elliott North Texas 6-2, 282, Round: 5 / # 114
K Morten Andersen Michigan State Round 4 / # 86

1983 Bum Phillips:

A wash TE John Tice and OC Steve Korte was it.

1984: Bum Phillips:
RDE James Geathers Wichita State 6-7, 290, Round 2 / # 42 (still one of my all time favorites)
P Brian Hansen Souix Falls Round 9 / # 237
RILB Vaughn Johnson North Carolina State 6-3, 235, round 1 / # 15 supplemental 1984
( had to wait a couple of years but he did come home.)

1985 Bum Phillips / Wade Phillips
SS Brett Maxie texas Southern 6-2, 194 UDFA
LB Jack Del Rio USC 6-4, 246, Round 3 / # 68 ( personality clashes LOL)

1986: Jim Mora:
ROLB Pat Swilling Georgia Tech 6-3, 245, Round 3 pick 60
LILB Sam Mills Montclair State University via USFL Philadelphia/Baltimore Stars
RILB Vaughn Johnson North Carolina State 6-3, 235, via USFL Jacksonville Bulls round 1 / # 15 supplemental 1984 (finally comes home)

1987 Jim Mora:
FS Gene Atkins Florida A&M 5-11, 201, Round 7 / # 179
RCB Toi Cook Stanford 5-11, 188, Round: 8 / # 207

1989 Jim Mora:

LDE Wayne Martin Arkansas 6-5, 275, Round: 1 / # 19
LCB Robert Massey North Carolina Central 5-11, 200, round 2 / #46

1990 Jim Mora:

RDE Renaldo Turnbull West Virgina 6-4, 250, Round 1 / # 14
RET/DB Vince Buck Central State 6-0, 198, Round 2 / # 44
DE Joel Smeenge Western Michigan, 6-6, 262 Round 3 / # 71 ( all time favorite names)


New Orleans fielded fierce defenses in 1991 and 1992, led by one of the best linebacker units in the league. In 1992 linebackers Rickey Jackson, Vaughan Johnson, Sam Mills, and Swilling all played in the Pro Bowl, and the Saints led the league in quarterback sacks. Despite its tenacious defense, the team lost in the first round each time it made the playoffs.

This is the defensive starters in 1992

Defensive Starters
LDE Wayne Martin 27 New Orleans Saints / 1st / 19th pick / 1989
NT Jim Wilks 34 New Orleans Saints / 12th / 305th pick / 1981
RDE Frank Warren 33 New Orleans Saints / 3rd / 57th pick / 1981
LOLB Rickey Jackson 34 New Orleans Saints / 2nd / 51st pick / 1981
LILB Sam Mills 33
RILB Vaughan Johnson 30 New Orleans Saints / 1st / 15th pick / 1984 Supp
ROLB Pat Swilling 28 New Orleans Saints / 3rd / 60th pick / 1986
LCB Toi Cook 28 New Orleans Saints / 8th / 207th pick / 1987
LCB Vince Buck 24 New Orleans Saints / 2nd / 44th pick / 1990
RCB Reggie Jones 23 New Orleans Saints / 5th / 126th pick / 1991
SS Brett Maxie 30
FS Gene Atkins 28 New Orleans Saints / 7th / 179th pick / 1987
Special Teams Starters
K Morten Andersen 32 New Orleans Saints / 4th / 86th pick / 1982
P Tommy Barnhardt 29 Tampa Bay Buccaneers / 9th / 223rd pick / 1986

Then Jim Mora flips out and supports his love for his OC Carl Smith and guts the defense starting in 1993. I can not blame Mora for restarting the rebuild on defense though just look at the ages.

1993 was the beginning of the end. Swilling goes to the Lions (Harsh)
1994 Mills is all that remained of the LBers and the DL starts to fall apart. Jackson to the 49ers
1995 Mills is gone (Carolina) and the DL is almost done. Secondary is also depleted.
1996 Wayne Martin and Renaldo Turnbull are all that remains.

Mora is history 8 games into the 1996 season.

That is 10 years of defensive picks through 2 head coaches to get the dome patrol onto the field as a unit. That is what it takes. TIME!

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:12 PM   #2
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D

New Orleans Saints first-round draft picks
Draft Player name Position College Notes
Year Pick
1967 26 Leslie Kelley RB Alabama [5]
1968 7 Kevin Hardy DE Notre Dame [6]
1969 17 John Shinners G Xavier [7]
1970 10 Ken Burrough WR Texas Southern [8]
1971 2 Archie Manning QB Mississippi [9]
1972 8 Royce Smith G Georgia [10]
1973 No first-round draft pick [11]
1974 13 Rick Middleton LB Ohio State [12]
1975 7 Larry Burton WR Purdue
12 Kurt Schumacher OT Ohio State [13]
1976 3 Chuck Muncie RB California [14]
1977 7 Joe Campbell DE Maryland
1978 3 Wes Chandler WR Florida
1979 11 Russell Erxleben K Texas
1980 12 Stan Brock OT Colorado
1981 1 George Rogers RB South Carolina
1982 13 Lindsay Scott WR Georgia [15]
1983 No first-round draft pick [16]
1984 No first-round draft pick [17]
1985 24 Alvin Toles LB Tennessee [18]
1986 6 Jim Dombrowski OT Virginia [19]
1987 11 Shawn Knight DT Brigham Young
1988 24 Craig Heyward RB Pittsburgh
1989 19 Wayne Martin DE Arkansas
1990 14 Renaldo Turnbull DE West Virginia
1991 No first-round draft pick [20]
1992 21 Vaughn Dunbar RB Indiana
1993 8 Willie Roaf OT Louisiana Tech [21]
1993 20 Irv Smith TE Notre Dame [22]
1994 13 Joe Johnson DE Louisville [23]
1995 13 Mark Fields LB Washington State
1996 11 Alex Molden DB Oregon
1997 10 Chris Naeole G Colorado [24]
1998 7 Kyle Turley OT San Diego State
1999 5 Ricky Williams RB Texas [25][26]
2000 No first-round draft pick [27]
2001 23 Deuce McAllister RB Mississippi
2002 13 Donté Stallworth WR Tennessee
2002 25 Charles Grant DE Georgia [28]
2003 6 Johnathan Sullivan DT Georgia [29]
2004 18 Will Smith DE Ohio State
2005 13 Jammal Brown OT Oklahoma [30]
2006 2 Reggie Bush RB Southern California
2007 27 Robert Meachem WR Tennessee
2008 10 -- -- --

Notice that RB, OT and DE were the position that we rarely missed on and had the biggest impact on the team. Worst was DT and K.

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Last edited by foreverfan; 03-27-2008 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:06 PM   #3
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D

Well done. But where does that put us? If we go by acquisition date, we are looking at 2012 before we field another Dome Patrol. Not good news.

Charles Grant - 2002
Hollis Thomas - Drafted 1996; acquired 2006
Brian Young - 2000; acquired 2004
Will Smith - 2004
Scott Fujita - 2002; acquired 2006
Jonathan Vilma - Drafted 2004; acquired 2008
Scott Shanle - 2003; acquired 2006
Mike McKenzie - 1999; acquired 2004
Randall Gay - 2004; acquired 2008
Roman Harper - 2006
Josh Bullocks - 2005

If only Alex Molden would have worked out, we would have been wreaking havoc on defense for the past 2 seasons.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:11 PM   #4
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D

Well I would disagree... It all started with Mora bringing in his boys from the USFL and having a scheme that worked with those guys. It was Mora and his staff that did that. Bumm wasn't going in the right direction. The difference now is we don't have natrual pass rushers nor the coaches with the balls to call a blitz at will.

Sit back... wait... bend-don't break. PUKE!

A lot of things have to come into play and all have to be on the same page at the right time or it all falls apart.

E U P H O R I A
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:20 PM   #5
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D

Saint Defensive Stragety.

We don't play a bend but don't break defense.
The Saints play a form of defense that is designed to be feast or famine. It is designed to give the ball back to the offense very quickly or let the other team score quickly. That's why we play so much man to man defense. Either way, we get the ball back rather quickly.

This assumes of course that you can score a lot of points too. The Saints have proven to have one of the top 5 offenses in the league. The problem comes when you come up against another top rated offense.

It's a stragety that worked fine in 2006 and sucked in 2007. Still, with the players we've added, we should be improved on defense. We really need a true #2 WR and a top rated RB to keep the offense going and secure Payton's offensive genius status.

This is why I think Payton will peeve us and draft Mendenhall unless somebody make us a great offer to trade down since there are no true defensive players worthy of a #10 pick.

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Last edited by foreverfan; 03-27-2008 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:49 PM   #6
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D

Originally Posted by foreverfan View Post
Saint Defensive Stragety.

We don't play a bend but don't break defense.
The Saints play a form of defense that is designed to be feast or famine. It is designed to give the ball back to the offense very quickly or let the other team score quickly. That's why we play so much man to man defense. Either way, we get the ball back rather quickly.

This assumes of course that you can score a lot of points too. The Saints have proven to have one of the top 5 offenses in the league. The problem comes when you come up against another top rated offense.

It's a stragety that worked fine in 2006 and sucked in 2007. Still, with the players we've added, we should be improved on defense. We really need a true #2 WR and a top rated RB to keep the offense going and secure Payton's offensive genius status.

This is why I think Payton will peeve us and draft Mendenhall unless somebody make us a great offer to trade down since there are no true defensive players worthy of a #10 pick.
WHAT??? its the same thing just different terminology.

Bend don't break = feast or famine. Bend don't break was used by the staff last year.

It only worked because teams were not very prepared to play us since there wasn't a whole lot of info on our offense at that time nor defense. Thats the only way it was successful. Its usually pretty status Quo... when new staff takes over offensive production picks up for the first year - usually. Even Haslette had a good run. Once teams figured out they could pass on us because we could not get to the QB... we were toast ever since.

I disagree with getting the ball quickly strategy though. The stradegy is to stop the other team from scoring... defense FAILED. Even if our bend don't break/feast of famine D is to let the other team score... you can't let the other team score more than us??? With that theroy the D is AWESOME all the time because they let the other team score and give us the ball back... YAY! Go D. LOL.

E U P H O R I A
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:59 PM   #7
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D

Originally Posted by foreverfan View Post
This is why I think Payton will peeve us and draft Mendenhall unless somebody make us a great offer to trade down since there are no true defensive players worthy of a #10 pick.

exactly... this draft is very top heavy... after about the to 7 or 8 picks.. there isnt anyone really available that is that must have player and it continues on to about the end of the first round.. there are about 20 or 25 players who a descent players but they are all pretty much the same grade value overall...
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:08 PM   #8
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D

True Dat, but back then there was no Free agency it is much easier and faster to build a defense these days.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:09 PM   #9
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D

This was pointed out to me by a good friend.

Dear Euph... Just for the record, the Saints play a DON'T BEND OR BREAK DEFENSE. Think about the Saints defense the last two years and you will see what I mean.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, and your point is well taken. We will be better in 2008.

Back on thread topic.

Last edited by foreverfan; 03-27-2008 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:28 PM   #10
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D

Sit back... wait... bend-don't break. PUKE!

I would much rather go down in a blaze of glory than like a burnt cinder.
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