Arrington Steal of the Draft

BRSaintsFan · 05-01-2008, 12:11 PM

No doubt Arrington can catch and is a gamer. If he can gain similar separation from defenders in the pros as in college, then he can make the team and likely contribute. However, that is alot easier said than done.

Euphoria · 05-01-2008, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo

You can't coach catching the ball either...DH is proof of that. The dude's garbage. Colston isn't fast and he is way better than DH. Stallworth is fast and he sucks too. Bullocks is fast and he sucks just as bad as DH. They will never develop into anything that matters. Bethel Johnson's fast too...and oh yeah he sucks. Randel-El, Matt Jones...

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.

He is a role player... needed to stretch the field. He serves a purpose.

You can coach catching thats is something you can work on. He made some spectacular grabs this past season. Ya hear how Colston learned how to catch by his coaches??? It can be done.

foreverfan · 05-01-2008, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

He is a role player... needed to stretch the field. He serves a purpose.

You can coach catching thats is something you can work on. He made some spectacular grabs this past season. Ya hear how Colston learned how to catch by his coaches??? It can be done.

I strongly disagree. Having won numerous touch football championships for years, I make the following observations...

CANNOT BE COACHED
Depth preception and body control.
Running full speed with great hand eye cordination.
Jumping for the ball and timing it at it's highest point.
Sensing the defender and positioning yourself to protect the football in a 1/10 of a second.
Laying out for the football correctly.
Controlled precise/cuts routes.
Making spectacular catches look routine.
Speed.
Hand size.

CAN BE COACHED
Learing the playbook.
Looking the ball into your hands and reading Wilson before you run.
Setting up the defender with your route.

Danny Abramowitz once said that a good receiver concentrates on catching the football and a great receiver concentrates on concentrating on catching the football, and their is a difference.

Can concentration be coached? With Devery, sadly, it's always been a work in progress. Still, minus his drops, he is a great receiver with his Ave Yards and TD to catch %.

JKool · 05-01-2008, 02:02 PM

This idea that such and such cannot be coached is of interest to me.

Players practice timed jumping, route running, catching, and so on. Practice improves them.

Physical structures set the limit as to what can be improved. For example, a player cannot run faster than his body will allow. However, training certainly can improve a players speed (to a limit); otherwise, why would people "work on" their running form, improving their lower body strength and so on?

Further, I wouldn't keep a player just because he is fast. This why football teams don't simply draft Olympic sprinters. They're fast, but when it comes to football skills, they are worthless. It is possible that a team would be better off redesigning its offensive playbook than keeping a fast player who can't do anything but run fast.

This not to say that I think Henderson is ONLY fast. It is just to say that speed alone isn't a reason to keep him. It is, as Euph points out, the role his speed can play in designing an offensive system that is a reason for keeping him (in addition to any other relevant football skills he has).

Euphoria · 05-01-2008, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by foreverfan

I strongly disagree. Having won numerous touch football championships for years, I make the following observations...

CANNOT BE COACHED
Depth preception and body control.
Running full speed with great hand eye cordination.
Jumping for the ball and timing it at it's highest point.
Sensing the defender and positioning yourself to protect the football in a 1/10 of a second.
Laying out for the football correctly.
Controlled precise/cuts routes.
Making spectacular catches look routine.
Speed.
Hand size.

CAN BE COACHED
Learing the playbook.
Looking the ball into your hands and reading Wilson before you run.
Setting up the defender with your route.

Danny Abramowitz once said that a good receiver concentrates on catching the football and a great receiver concentrates on concentrating on catching the football, and their is a difference.

Can concentration be coached? With Devery, sadly, it's always been a work in progress. Still, minus his drops, he is a great receiver with his Ave Yards and TD to catch %.

Well then you better give back those championships because you are a fraud.

I coach Little Leage Baseball and won championships as well has flag and tackle football. ...and I will tell you you can coach the following:

Eye hand Coordination
Body Control
Route running
Jumping and Timing
Laying out
catching.

You can't tell me a kid comes out of a womb catching a freakin ball. There are drills you run to develop all of these skill sets instead of just going out there and getting ringers... thats being a fraud of a coach.

I see you do agree with speed which is the gest of my argument, hince he is on the team.

PS you can teach them how to learn a playbook instead of just learing at it, lol.

foreverfan · 05-01-2008, 02:26 PM

Euph, of course you can coach it in little league. All I'm saying is by the time you are a man, you either have it or you don't.

Euphoria · 05-01-2008, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by foreverfan

Euph, of course you can coach it in little league. All I'm saying is by the time you are a man, you either have it or you don't.

I still disagree... whats the point in practicing at all. Why was Jerry Rice running routes and catching balls and running all sorts of drills even until his last days on the field. And you know the whole time playing football he was learning ballet for body control right?

Why do Professional baseball players take batting practice... its eye hand coordination.

foreverfan · 05-01-2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

I still disagree... whats the point in practicing at all. Why was Jerry Rice running routes and catching balls and running all sorts of drills even until his last days on the field. And you know the whole time playing football he was learning ballet for body control right?

Why do Professional baseball players take batting practice... its eye hand coordination.

Because when you have it, you can prefect it. If you don't have it, no matter how much you practice, you won't become great. You might become better, but you won't become Jerry Rice or Chris Paul.

Sure practice helps, but you either have the intangibles or you don't or everybody would be great.

Some people run fast and other players think 1/10 of a second quicker than others which may be coachable. Still, how do you teach a player to think faster? He either thinks fast or he doesn't. At some point you hit the wall in terms of how good you will be.

So do you think the light is going to go on for Devery or has he hit the wall in terms of how great he can be?

Not everyone can be a Guru.

JKool · 05-01-2008, 02:51 PM

I think the dispute here is not over whether such and such can be coached, but rather what is the limit to which coaching (and practice, drills, and so on) can impact a particular trait.

Speed, can be improved, but there is a physical limit (set by the player's muscle structure and so on).

The question is not whether such and such can be coached, rather it is how much coaching will improve such and such.

Euphoria · 05-01-2008, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by foreverfan

Because when you have it, you can prefect it. If you don't have it, no matter how much you practice, you won't become great. You might become better, but you won't become Jerry Rice or Chris Paul.

Sure practice helps, but you either have the intangibles or you don't or everybody would be great.

Some people run fast and other players think 1/10 of a second quicker than others which may be coachable. Still, how do you teach a player to think faster? He either thinks fast or he doesn't. At some point you hit the wall in terms of how good you will be.

So do you think the light is going to go on for Devery or has he hit the wall in terms of how great he can be?

Not everyone can be a Guru.

But see not you are contridicting... if you have it you can 'perfect it', that implies you can get just a tad better.

Now you are making my point "intangibles" such as speed can't be taught.

You teach a player to think fast by putting him in a position over and over teaching him how to react. Sure over time with age he'll lose a step but you practice and go through situations with your team so they react the way you want them and the more they do it the faster they get at it.

I don't think anyone is asking Devery to be great. He is I think here to serve a purpose. He could get better but his primary role for our offense is to RUN DEVERY RUN. On occasion let one fly out there to him. He's made some great catches. I don't think anyone is asking him to be Jerry Rice. If he was here to do anything other than... ya think he would have been cut by now. YES.

Its takes awhile for WR to get use to the speed and adapt the the NFL especially as a WR.

05-01-2008, 12:11 PM	#21
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft No doubt Arrington can catch and is a gamer. If he can gain similar separation from defenders in the pros as in college, then he can make the team and likely contribute. However, that is alot easier said than done.

05-01-2008, 12:42 PM	#22
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo You can't coach catching the ball either...DH is proof of that. The dude's garbage. Colston isn't fast and he is way better than DH. Stallworth is fast and he sucks too. Bullocks is fast and he sucks just as bad as DH. They will never develop into anything that matters. Bethel Johnson's fast too...and oh yeah he sucks. Randel-El, Matt Jones... If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck. He is a role player... needed to stretch the field. He serves a purpose. You can coach catching thats is something you can work on. He made some spectacular grabs this past season. Ya hear how Colston learned how to catch by his coaches??? It can be done.

05-01-2008, 01:23 PM	#23
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft Originally Posted by Euphoria He is a role player... needed to stretch the field. He serves a purpose. You can coach catching thats is something you can work on. He made some spectacular grabs this past season. Ya hear how Colston learned how to catch by his coaches??? It can be done. I strongly disagree. Having won numerous touch football championships for years, I make the following observations... CANNOT BE COACHED Depth preception and body control. Running full speed with great hand eye cordination. Jumping for the ball and timing it at it's highest point. Sensing the defender and positioning yourself to protect the football in a 1/10 of a second. Laying out for the football correctly. Controlled precise/cuts routes. Making spectacular catches look routine. Speed. Hand size. CAN BE COACHED Learing the playbook. Looking the ball into your hands and reading Wilson before you run. Setting up the defender with your route. Danny Abramowitz once said that a good receiver concentrates on catching the football and a great receiver concentrates on concentrating on catching the football, and their is a difference. Can concentration be coached? With Devery, sadly, it's always been a work in progress. Still, minus his drops, he is a great receiver with his Ave Yards and TD to catch %.
	2019 Death of a Parrot. Last edited by foreverfan; 05-01-2008 at 01:25 PM..

05-01-2008, 02:02 PM	#24
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft This idea that such and such cannot be coached is of interest to me. Players practice timed jumping, route running, catching, and so on. Practice improves them. Physical structures set the limit as to what can be improved. For example, a player cannot run faster than his body will allow. However, training certainly can improve a players speed (to a limit); otherwise, why would people "work on" their running form, improving their lower body strength and so on? Further, I wouldn't keep a player just because he is fast. This why football teams don't simply draft Olympic sprinters. They're fast, but when it comes to football skills, they are worthless. It is possible that a team would be better off redesigning its offensive playbook than keeping a fast player who can't do anything but run fast. This not to say that I think Henderson is ONLY fast. It is just to say that speed alone isn't a reason to keep him. It is, as Euph points out, the role his speed can play in designing an offensive system that is a reason for keeping him (in addition to any other relevant football skills he has).
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

05-01-2008, 02:22 PM	#25
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft Originally Posted by foreverfan I strongly disagree. Having won numerous touch football championships for years, I make the following observations... CANNOT BE COACHED Depth preception and body control. Running full speed with great hand eye cordination. Jumping for the ball and timing it at it's highest point. Sensing the defender and positioning yourself to protect the football in a 1/10 of a second. Laying out for the football correctly. Controlled precise/cuts routes. Making spectacular catches look routine. Speed. Hand size. CAN BE COACHED Learing the playbook. Looking the ball into your hands and reading Wilson before you run. Setting up the defender with your route. Danny Abramowitz once said that a good receiver concentrates on catching the football and a great receiver concentrates on concentrating on catching the football, and their is a difference. Can concentration be coached? With Devery, sadly, it's always been a work in progress. Still, minus his drops, he is a great receiver with his Ave Yards and TD to catch %. Well then you better give back those championships because you are a fraud. I coach Little Leage Baseball and won championships as well has flag and tackle football. ...and I will tell you you can coach the following: Eye hand Coordination Body Control Route running Jumping and Timing Laying out catching. You can't tell me a kid comes out of a womb catching a freakin ball. There are drills you run to develop all of these skill sets instead of just going out there and getting ringers... thats being a fraud of a coach. I see you do agree with speed which is the gest of my argument, hince he is on the team. PS you can teach them how to learn a playbook instead of just learing at it, lol.
	E U P H O R I A Last edited by Euphoria; 05-01-2008 at 02:29 PM..

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05-01-2008, 02:26 PM	#26
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft Euph, of course you can coach it in little league. All I'm saying is by the time you are a man, you either have it or you don't.

05-01-2008, 02:32 PM	#27
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft Originally Posted by foreverfan Euph, of course you can coach it in little league. All I'm saying is by the time you are a man, you either have it or you don't. I still disagree... whats the point in practicing at all. Why was Jerry Rice running routes and catching balls and running all sorts of drills even until his last days on the field. And you know the whole time playing football he was learning ballet for body control right? Why do Professional baseball players take batting practice... its eye hand coordination.

05-01-2008, 02:44 PM	#28
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft Originally Posted by Euphoria I still disagree... whats the point in practicing at all. Why was Jerry Rice running routes and catching balls and running all sorts of drills even until his last days on the field. And you know the whole time playing football he was learning ballet for body control right? Why do Professional baseball players take batting practice... its eye hand coordination. Because when you have it, you can prefect it. If you don't have it, no matter how much you practice, you won't become great. You might become better, but you won't become Jerry Rice or Chris Paul. Sure practice helps, but you either have the intangibles or you don't or everybody would be great. Some people run fast and other players think 1/10 of a second quicker than others which may be coachable. Still, how do you teach a player to think faster? He either thinks fast or he doesn't. At some point you hit the wall in terms of how good you will be. So do you think the light is going to go on for Devery or has he hit the wall in terms of how great he can be? Not everyone can be a Guru.
	2019 Death of a Parrot.

05-01-2008, 02:51 PM	#29
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft I think the dispute here is not over whether such and such can be coached, but rather what is the limit to which coaching (and practice, drills, and so on) can impact a particular trait. Speed, can be improved, but there is a physical limit (set by the player's muscle structure and so on). The question is not whether such and such can be coached, rather it is how much coaching will improve such and such.

05-01-2008, 02:58 PM	#30
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Arrington Steal of the Draft Originally Posted by foreverfan Because when you have it, you can prefect it. If you don't have it, no matter how much you practice, you won't become great. You might become better, but you won't become Jerry Rice or Chris Paul. Sure practice helps, but you either have the intangibles or you don't or everybody would be great. Some people run fast and other players think 1/10 of a second quicker than others which may be coachable. Still, how do you teach a player to think faster? He either thinks fast or he doesn't. At some point you hit the wall in terms of how good you will be. So do you think the light is going to go on for Devery or has he hit the wall in terms of how great he can be? Not everyone can be a Guru. But see not you are contridicting... if you have it you can 'perfect it', that implies you can get just a tad better. Now you are making my point "intangibles" such as speed can't be taught. You teach a player to think fast by putting him in a position over and over teaching him how to react. Sure over time with age he'll lose a step but you practice and go through situations with your team so they react the way you want them and the more they do it the faster they get at it. I don't think anyone is asking Devery to be great. He is I think here to serve a purpose. He could get better but his primary role for our offense is to RUN DEVERY RUN. On occasion let one fly out there to him. He's made some great catches. I don't think anyone is asking him to be Jerry Rice. If he was here to do anything other than... ya think he would have been cut by now. YES. Its takes awhile for WR to get use to the speed and adapt the the NFL especially as a WR.
	E U P H O R I A