TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints

Doctor Saint · 05-18-2008, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by 504Highlander

I completely agree with you on Sammy Knight. He is still a stud ( Lucky NYG )

I too was hoping he could come back to help Harper and Bullocks progress.

Draft Daddy shows S Mike Doss and CB Ty Law, still available. I believe that our secondary problems are more to do with poor coaching as well as no effective veteran mentoring or guidance.

We need a couple of talented vets to help compensate for the crappy Saints secondary coaching staff, since that position likely will not be upgraded.

Would either one of them really help us? i mean ty law is old and isnt much of an upgrade assuming he would be one at all. and mike doss is a bust. he was supposed to be a stud coming out of OSU but he ended up not helping ne body do nething. he might be an upgrade but he isnt going to put us over the hump. i dont know if coaching is as big a problem as the players in the positions but i agree. without a true defensive coach(jim haslett) we wont be able to help out the players too much.

SapperSaint · 05-18-2008, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by 504Highlander

'Just a luxury'??? You must be joking!

We don't have McKenzie ( Maybe by mid-season ) Oh well
Deuce is not ready ( He should recuperate for a year ) in a year he will be a veteran back up
Eric Johnson just had a knee scoped. he should be fine
Miller can't block he'll be fine
Porter is a rookie look for him to the #3
Glenn is ancient there is your veteran coaching right there
Usama needs veteran coaching ( gets lost out on the field ) see gleen comment
Jason David was a very big mistake ( Cover 2 corner with safety support ) will be ajusted to our system this year. against everything I believe in he will be a different player this year
Bullocks and Harper need better coaching ( they tend to be out of position ) see the glenn comment

I do like PT ( he is our Westbrook ) But even Westbrook is not a bruiser. What??? I'm not even going to go there
So we have 2 Westbrook's, Reggie and PT. there is no compaision to these three. I just don't see it
We need a beast who can stay on the field to run out the clock once we get a lead in the 4th quarter. ( See Eagles/Saints 06 )
We need a bruiser on 1st and goal to punch it in ( See Eagles/Saints 07 )

A beast can't be a beast on 2 bad knees just a couple of months after major surgery. This micro-fracture procedure requires substantial time to heal. One or two years to heal completely.that's why Duece can't sit out another year. How many more years does he have? Not many

By the way...welcome to B&G.

504Highlander · 05-18-2008, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Saint

Would either one of them really help us? i mean ty law is old and isnt much of an upgrade assuming he would be one at all. and mike doss is a bust. he was supposed to be a stud coming out of OSU but he ended up not helping ne body do nething. he might be an upgrade but he isnt going to put us over the hump. i dont know if coaching is as big a problem as the players in the positions but i agree. without a true defensive coach(jim haslett) we wont be able to help out the players too much.

Here is my original post:

While the Bears took Tulane RB Matt Forte and TE Kellen Davis and Chiefs took TE Brad Cottam, the Saints opted for CB Tracy Porter in the 2nd round.

In time, I am optimistic that Porter will develop into a good NFL corner.

Meanwhile the Saints have three BIG problems RIGHT NOW:

No starting-caliber RB behind Deuce (2ACL's and a Microfracture surgery)
No starting-caliber TE period.
A lot of 'junk' at CB and S ( Aged and injured vets, unproven rookies, and safeties who get lost )

Anyone else think these are urgent problems to address?

Saints 08 are going to have a tough time competing at a high level, given our current roster and current injury status and lack of quality depth at key positions.

504Highlander · 05-18-2008, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by SapperSaint

By the way...welcome to B&G.

I am a big Deuce fan. However, I am also, realistic. To get the best from Deuce, he must be given enough time to heal from the Microfracture surgery. Usually about one or two years.

Opponents already know about his knees and they will be a target. Putting him in now will just re-injure the knee. This will just add more rehab time and mentally, another setback may prove too much for him to bear.

If you look at moves by Bears, Panthers, Falcons, to name a few, they have drafted quality RB's to add depth behind their already potent starting RB's.

TE and DB are also significant weak spots.

CantonLegend · 05-18-2008, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by 504Highlander

Here is my original post:

Saints 08 are going to have a tough time competing at a high level, given our current roster and current injury status and lack of quality depth at key positions.

what key position do we not have depth at?....we have depth at RB and CB if thats ur argument...the skill set might not be grade A but its good enough to get us by....im beginning to believe that with an improved pass rush we will be a lot better off in the secondary...ellis can take on 2 blockers every play..that leaves the gaps open for blitzing LBs or crossing DEs....again....our injuries are only a concern if the depth proves unworthy....the only injuries we have to worry about are our (new) LBs and duece....MM will be healthy by mid season and gay can step up to fill his position until then neway....Duece will be healthy to start the season and he will be used when we need him....we competed at a high level last year after the first 4 games...the only problem we will have is if we get off to a slow start....but then again...look at our schedule lol...i think the child saying: easy squeezy lemon peezy applies to our shedule

Doctor Saint · 05-18-2008, 01:44 PM

i agree that the pass rush will help our corners. even with jason david being slow as dirt it still takes a lot of time to get beat deep. our newly acquired defensive players wont allow that much time for a QB. we will get to the QB before jason david gets beat. that means a better season for all of our corners.

504Highlander · 05-18-2008, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

what key position do we not have depth at?....we have depth at RB and CB if thats ur argument...the skill set might not be grade A but its good enough to get us by....im beginning to believe that with an improved pass rush we will be a lot better off in the secondary...ellis can take on 2 blockers every play..that leaves the gaps open for blitzing LBs or crossing DEs....again....our injuries are only a concern if the depth proves unworthy....the only injuries we have to worry about are our (new) LBs and duece....MM will be healthy by mid season and gay can step up to fill his position until then neway....Duece will be healthy to start the season and he will be used when we need him....we competed at a high level last year after the first 4 games...the only problem we will have is if we get off to a slow start....but then again...look at our schedule lol...i think the child saying: easy squeezy lemon peezy applies to our shedule

Your cup is more than 'half full'. Your cup 'runneth over'!!

Think back to the 07 Saints 0-4 start to the season. Why did we lose the first four games?

Terrible secondary performance and ineffective running game.

Payton was on NFL Network recently talking about the 0 and 4 start in 07.

What specifically have the FO done to address these weaknesses ??

Why were the 06 Saints successful? Effective running game keeps the opponent, not to mention mediocre Saints D off the field, and works the clock.

Porter is a rookie, Glenn is way past his prime and McKenzie is out. Usama and our safeties are lost on the field.

If Eric Johnson is our only hope at TE, as an outlet for Brees, he just had his knee scoped.

We have multiple weaknesses and our opponents know this and will be game planning accordingly.

504Highlander · 05-18-2008, 02:07 PM

I do like PT ( he is our Westbrook ) But even Westbrook is not a bruiser.
So we have 2 Westbrook's, Reggie and PT.
We need a beast who can stay on the field to run out the clock once we get a lead in the 4th quarter. ( See Eagles/Saints 06 )
We need a bruiser on 1st and goal to punch it in ( See Eagles/Saints 07 )

A beast can't be a beast on 2 bad knees just a couple of months after major surgery. This micro-fracture procedure requires substantial time to heal. One or two years to heal completely.

Watch PT in the 07 Bears game to see what I am talking about. Elusive, shifty, hard to bring down and catches well out of the backfield. He started that game and broke Saints records for rushing and receiving in the same game.

These are the traits of Brian Westbrook. PT is a fine talent, but not a bruiser.

As I have already stated, I am a big Deuce fan, but playing him up the middle before his injuries have healed may end his career. None of us want that.

hagan714 · 05-18-2008, 02:25 PM

Miller can't block??????????
Miller was not brought in here for his receiving skills. Johnson is the one who was never known for his blocking. Miller is just a solid all around TE. Period. He does not excel at either but neither are a weakness. I would love to have another Miller on this team.

Johnson had a knee scoped, no biggie. So they will take it easy on him in camp but he be ok for the opener.

Most of the rest will work itself out on the field the more they play together. The saints are just starting to rebuild the defense this year. Give it time. Sure there will be up and downs but they WILL be greatly improved by the end of the season.

RB? do not know PT earned more playing time for now. It is his to loose. i would welcome a veteran presence but not a panic pricing.

504Highlander · 05-18-2008, 02:35 PM

Miller is a converted wide receiver and is not prototypical TE size.

His size is a disadvantage as a blocker, especially on goal line situations.

He has heart and deserves to be on the team, but I would like the Saints to get a couple of 'Beast' sized TE's for overall upgrade at the TE position

05-18-2008, 12:42 PM	#11
Doctor Saint Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints Originally Posted by 504Highlander I completely agree with you on Sammy Knight. He is still a stud ( Lucky NYG ) I too was hoping he could come back to help Harper and Bullocks progress. Draft Daddy shows S Mike Doss and CB Ty Law, still available. I believe that our secondary problems are more to do with poor coaching as well as no effective veteran mentoring or guidance. We need a couple of talented vets to help compensate for the crappy Saints secondary coaching staff, since that position likely will not be upgraded. Would either one of them really help us? i mean ty law is old and isnt much of an upgrade assuming he would be one at all. and mike doss is a bust. he was supposed to be a stud coming out of OSU but he ended up not helping ne body do nething. he might be an upgrade but he isnt going to put us over the hump. i dont know if coaching is as big a problem as the players in the positions but i agree. without a true defensive coach(jim haslett) we wont be able to help out the players too much.
Doctor Saint Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11

05-18-2008, 01:10 PM	#12
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints Originally Posted by 504Highlander 'Just a luxury'??? You must be joking! We don't have McKenzie ( Maybe by mid-season ) Oh well Deuce is not ready ( He should recuperate for a year ) in a year he will be a veteran back up Eric Johnson just had a knee scoped. he should be fine Miller can't block he'll be fine Porter is a rookie look for him to the #3 Glenn is ancient there is your veteran coaching right there Usama needs veteran coaching ( gets lost out on the field ) see gleen comment Jason David was a very big mistake ( Cover 2 corner with safety support ) will be ajusted to our system this year. against everything I believe in he will be a different player this year Bullocks and Harper need better coaching ( they tend to be out of position ) see the glenn comment I do like PT ( he is our Westbrook ) But even Westbrook is not a bruiser. What??? I'm not even going to go there So we have 2 Westbrook's, Reggie and PT. there is no compaision to these three. I just don't see it We need a beast who can stay on the field to run out the clock once we get a lead in the 4th quarter. ( See Eagles/Saints 06 ) We need a bruiser on 1st and goal to punch it in ( See Eagles/Saints 07 ) A beast can't be a beast on 2 bad knees just a couple of months after major surgery. This micro-fracture procedure requires substantial time to heal. One or two years to heal completely.that's why Duece can't sit out another year. How many more years does he have? Not many By the way...welcome to B&G.

05-18-2008, 01:11 PM	#13
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints Originally Posted by Doctor Saint Would either one of them really help us? i mean ty law is old and isnt much of an upgrade assuming he would be one at all. and mike doss is a bust. he was supposed to be a stud coming out of OSU but he ended up not helping ne body do nething. he might be an upgrade but he isnt going to put us over the hump. i dont know if coaching is as big a problem as the players in the positions but i agree. without a true defensive coach(jim haslett) we wont be able to help out the players too much. Here is my original post: While the Bears took Tulane RB Matt Forte and TE Kellen Davis and Chiefs took TE Brad Cottam, the Saints opted for CB Tracy Porter in the 2nd round. In time, I am optimistic that Porter will develop into a good NFL corner. Meanwhile the Saints have three BIG problems RIGHT NOW: No starting-caliber RB behind Deuce (2ACL's and a Microfracture surgery) No starting-caliber TE period. A lot of 'junk' at CB and S ( Aged and injured vets, unproven rookies, and safeties who get lost ) Anyone else think these are urgent problems to address? Saints 08 are going to have a tough time competing at a high level, given our current roster and current injury status and lack of quality depth at key positions.

05-18-2008, 01:27 PM	#14
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints Originally Posted by SapperSaint By the way...welcome to B&G. I am a big Deuce fan. However, I am also, realistic. To get the best from Deuce, he must be given enough time to heal from the Microfracture surgery. Usually about one or two years. Opponents already know about his knees and they will be a target. Putting him in now will just re-injure the knee. This will just add more rehab time and mentally, another setback may prove too much for him to bear. If you look at moves by Bears, Panthers, Falcons, to name a few, they have drafted quality RB's to add depth behind their already potent starting RB's. TE and DB are also significant weak spots.
	If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

05-18-2008, 01:28 PM	#15
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints Originally Posted by 504Highlander Here is my original post: Saints 08 are going to have a tough time competing at a high level, given our current roster and current injury status and lack of quality depth at key positions. what key position do we not have depth at?....we have depth at RB and CB if thats ur argument...the skill set might not be grade A but its good enough to get us by....im beginning to believe that with an improved pass rush we will be a lot better off in the secondary...ellis can take on 2 blockers every play..that leaves the gaps open for blitzing LBs or crossing DEs....again....our injuries are only a concern if the depth proves unworthy....the only injuries we have to worry about are our (new) LBs and duece....MM will be healthy by mid season and gay can step up to fill his position until then neway....Duece will be healthy to start the season and he will be used when we need him....we competed at a high level last year after the first 4 games...the only problem we will have is if we get off to a slow start....but then again...look at our schedule lol...i think the child saying: easy squeezy lemon peezy applies to our shedule
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

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05-18-2008, 01:44 PM	#16
Doctor Saint Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints i agree that the pass rush will help our corners. even with jason david being slow as dirt it still takes a lot of time to get beat deep. our newly acquired defensive players wont allow that much time for a QB. we will get to the QB before jason david gets beat. that means a better season for all of our corners.
Doctor Saint Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11

05-18-2008, 01:49 PM	#17
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints Originally Posted by CantonLegend what key position do we not have depth at?....we have depth at RB and CB if thats ur argument...the skill set might not be grade A but its good enough to get us by....im beginning to believe that with an improved pass rush we will be a lot better off in the secondary...ellis can take on 2 blockers every play..that leaves the gaps open for blitzing LBs or crossing DEs....again....our injuries are only a concern if the depth proves unworthy....the only injuries we have to worry about are our (new) LBs and duece....MM will be healthy by mid season and gay can step up to fill his position until then neway....Duece will be healthy to start the season and he will be used when we need him....we competed at a high level last year after the first 4 games...the only problem we will have is if we get off to a slow start....but then again...look at our schedule lol...i think the child saying: easy squeezy lemon peezy applies to our shedule Your cup is more than 'half full'. Your cup 'runneth over'!! Think back to the 07 Saints 0-4 start to the season. Why did we lose the first four games? Terrible secondary performance and ineffective running game. Payton was on NFL Network recently talking about the 0 and 4 start in 07. What specifically have the FO done to address these weaknesses ?? Why were the 06 Saints successful? Effective running game keeps the opponent, not to mention mediocre Saints D off the field, and works the clock. Porter is a rookie, Glenn is way past his prime and McKenzie is out. Usama and our safeties are lost on the field. If Eric Johnson is our only hope at TE, as an outlet for Brees, he just had his knee scoped. We have multiple weaknesses and our opponents know this and will be game planning accordingly.
	If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

05-18-2008, 02:07 PM	#18
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints I do like PT ( he is our Westbrook ) But even Westbrook is not a bruiser. So we have 2 Westbrook's, Reggie and PT. We need a beast who can stay on the field to run out the clock once we get a lead in the 4th quarter. ( See Eagles/Saints 06 ) We need a bruiser on 1st and goal to punch it in ( See Eagles/Saints 07 ) A beast can't be a beast on 2 bad knees just a couple of months after major surgery. This micro-fracture procedure requires substantial time to heal. One or two years to heal completely. Watch PT in the 07 Bears game to see what I am talking about. Elusive, shifty, hard to bring down and catches well out of the backfield. He started that game and broke Saints records for rushing and receiving in the same game. These are the traits of Brian Westbrook. PT is a fine talent, but not a bruiser. As I have already stated, I am a big Deuce fan, but playing him up the middle before his injuries have healed may end his career. None of us want that.

05-18-2008, 02:25 PM	#19
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints Miller can't block?????????? Miller was not brought in here for his receiving skills. Johnson is the one who was never known for his blocking. Miller is just a solid all around TE. Period. He does not excel at either but neither are a weakness. I would love to have another Miller on this team. Johnson had a knee scoped, no biggie. So they will take it easy on him in camp but he be ok for the opener. Most of the rest will work itself out on the field the more they play together. The saints are just starting to rebuild the defense this year. Give it time. Sure there will be up and downs but they WILL be greatly improved by the end of the season. RB? do not know PT earned more playing time for now. It is his to loose. i would welcome a veteran presence but not a panic pricing.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

05-18-2008, 02:35 PM	#20
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints Miller is a converted wide receiver and is not prototypical TE size. His size is a disadvantage as a blocker, especially on goal line situations. He has heart and deserves to be on the team, but I would like the Saints to get a couple of 'Beast' sized TE's for overall upgrade at the TE position

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