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The Sky is Falling

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Very good Billy. We didn\'t lead the NFC in scoring - see end of season offensive meltdown for more on that - but hey, those are decent reasons. Now, let me ask you this. Did Aaron or Deuce\'s play lead ...

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Old 08-25-2003, 10:27 PM   #31
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The Sky is Falling

Very good Billy. We didn\'t lead the NFC in scoring - see end of season offensive meltdown for more on that - but hey, those are decent reasons.

Now, let me ask you this. Did Aaron or Deuce\'s play lead us to the playoffs last year? Did Michael Lewis\' kick returns? See, what you haven\'t said is, \"The defense got better.\" That is the ONE thing that NEEDED to happen for us to contend seriously. In my opinion, right now, the defense is worse. So it confuses me that you\'re optimistic. What was the problem with this team last year? Name the top two or three?

Defense, coaching, inability to play consistently well down the stretch.... does that sound about right? Well, we won\'t know about that last one until December, but those first two haven\'t changed for the better.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 08-25-2003, 10:36 PM   #32
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The Sky is Falling

Let me say this. I think it\'s very fair to say the offense will be as good as last year. Hell, I think it\'s fair to say they should be better this year.

I think it fair to say the special teams won us a couple of games last year and should this year also.

Now to address the rest:

Melt down- True we did do that the last 2 years. Will that happen this year. Who knows. I think it\'s more liikely it won\'t. At least there is no scentific reason that you can show me that it will.

Aaron didn\'t get us to the playoffs but he didn\'t prevent us from getting there either.

Defense- I\'m going to say it\'s a 50/50 chance of the defense at this point. You have to at least give them the benifit of the doubt unitl you see them in a real game.

Coaching- I think there have been mistakes. I\'m optimistic they have learned from their mistakes and they won\'t happen this year.

That\'s as honest as I can be.

[Edited on 26/8/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
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Old 08-25-2003, 10:51 PM   #33
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The Sky is Falling

You\'re obviously young Billy. Only a young person is this naturally optimistic.

Yes, I will agree that the offense SHOULD be better - but with our history and a coaching staff that has proved tima and again that it can\'t adjust, I wouldn\'t be surprised if they played worse b/c they\'re using the same plays in the same order that they did last year. Defensive coordinators do eventually figure that kind of stuff out you know?

Will they collapse? Probably not. They won\'t be good enough to collapse in my mind.

What I don\'t understand is why you think we have to give the defense the benefit of the doubt. I\'ve seen nothing from the Haslett run Saints that says the defense will get better. I\'ve seen nothing from this defense in preseason that shows me that there\'s hope. So why do you feel that you have to give them the benefit of the doubt? Again - leap of faith - which is a hope not based on fact.

Coaching - well, we\'ll see. There have been mistakes, and there will be more. Haslett has only gotten less direct from what I\'ve seen with him in the media. I can\'t speak to his behavior in practice or meetings, but let me say this - THERE ARE NO EXCUSES. This is HIS team. If they don\'t do it this year, he should go. How long can you continue to squander this talent? How long can you believe that a change is coming when there\'s been no sign of it for years? In fact, there have only been signs of the opposite.

Be optimistic Billy, go ahead. I just now know that that optimism is based on little hard evidence and a whole lot of hope. That\'s fine, there are always people like this. Just don\'t try to argue and tell me why I\'m crazy for being a pessimist, but honestly, I\'m pretty close to reality, not pessimism.

Isn\'t this the point when you call me a fag?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 08-25-2003, 11:04 PM   #34
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The Sky is Falling

First of all I\'m 35 years old. Second, being optimistic has nothing to do with age. It has to do with life experiences. Some people go through life looking at the glass as half empty and some half full. My glass in life is half full.

Third- As much as you KNOW the defense is going to be worse. That\'s based on preseasn games. You have pointed out NOTHING. Let me repeat this one more time for you. NOTHING- No hard facts just a gut feeling and some preseason games. Fact- you do not know and cannot know if the defense is going to be better before you even see them in their first game. Now there\'s some reality for ya.

Now- I\'ll keep it as real as you want to but yor\'re not preaching the gospel here. Even the so called experts get it wrong more than they are right.

Did you pick the Patriots to go to the Super Bowl or the Ravens.. Sure ya did. Right????

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Old 08-26-2003, 01:58 AM   #35
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The Sky is Falling

New Orleans

A month ago, the Saints were concerned that DT Grady Jackson wouldn’t be effective enough to keep a spot on the roster. After battling a weight problem all last year and having only limited contact with the team during the offseason, nobody was quite sure where Jackson’s head was when it came to football. But he has answered that question loud and clear. We’re told that Jackson has won his starting job back from Kenny Smith and will be joining rookie Johnathan Sullivan on the interior of the line. Jackson had been demoted to second string when he showed up to camp a bit overweight, but he battled his way back into head coach Jim Haslett’s good graces by working hard on and off the field and simply making more plays than Smith. Sullivan’s struggles also figure to make Jackson more valuable. The Saints were counting on Sullivan to be an impact player this season, someone who could improve the team’s run defense and provide another element of speed from the DT position. Sullivan, however, has been slow developing, and although he has shown signs of progress, the fact that he still isn’t where the team would like him to be made having an experienced starter in the lineup at tackle that much more important. Haslett will keep a close eye on Jackson’s play, and Smith could be inserted back into the starting lineup if Jackson falters, but for the time being at least, one-half of the “Heavy Lunch Bunch� still is clogging the middle in the Big Easy.

\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton
On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan
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Old 08-26-2003, 08:36 AM   #36
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The Sky is Falling

New Orleans

A month ago, the Saints were concerned that DT Grady Jackson wouldn’t be effective enough to keep a spot on the roster. After battling a weight problem all last year and having only limited contact with the team during the offseason, nobody was quite sure where Jackson’s head was when it came to football. But he has answered that question loud and clear. We’re told that Jackson has won his starting job back from Kenny Smith and will be joining rookie Johnathan Sullivan on the interior of the line. Jackson had been demoted to second string when he showed up to camp a bit overweight, but he battled his way back into head coach Jim Haslett’s good graces by working hard on and off the field and simply making more plays than Smith. Sullivan’s struggles also figure to make Jackson more valuable. The Saints were counting on Sullivan to be an impact player this season, someone who could improve the team’s run defense and provide another element of speed from the DT position. Sullivan, however, has been slow developing, and although he has shown signs of progress, the fact that he still isn’t where the team would like him to be made having an experienced starter in the lineup at tackle that much more important. Haslett will keep a close eye on Jackson’s play, and Smith could be inserted back into the starting lineup if Jackson falters, but for the time being at least, one-half of the “Heavy Lunch Bunch� still is clogging the middle in the Big Easy.
How can you tell who\'s starting?
1st it Kenny at the 3, and Sullivan at nose, Grady 2nd string
Then its Grady at nose and Sullivan at the 3, Kenny back-up
Then its Kenny at DE, and then, heck, I forget…

The good thing is Kenny Smith probably pushed 3 DL to step up their game.
Kenny will see a lot of playing time, especially since he\'s shown he\'s really stepped up his game and can play all 4 spots pretty good.
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Old 08-26-2003, 08:44 AM   #37
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The Sky is Falling

WhoDat- I read this post several times, just to make sure I\'m on the same page with your reasoning and one thing is VERY OBVIOUS to me. You do not like this coaching staff and you had your mind made up about them a long time ago. Now, let me take some of your comments and show everyone and hopefully you why your OPINIONS about the performance of the Saints this year is biased because of your hate for the coaching staff!!

Yes, I will agree that the offense SHOULD be better - but with our history and a coaching staff that has proved tima and again that it can\'t adjust, I wouldn\'t be surprised if they played worse b/c they\'re using the same plays in the same order that they did last year. Defensive coordinators do eventually figure that kind of stuff out you know?
Fact- they adjusted enough to beat the Bucs twice last year, beat the 49\'ers(playoff team), Green Bay(playoff team), and we had one of the highest scoring offenses in the NFL.

Do you understand what BIASED means? It means that you always talk about the negitives of the coaching staff and NEVER give them credit for anything. You will probably respond to the above comment by saying.

Yeah, they beat those teams but they lost against the Lions, Bengals, and Panthers-when all we had to do is win one of those games to make the playoffs. But then you wouldn\'t bring up the fact that Aaron was playing hurt, Duece was hurt, Donte was out, and Paython was hurt. Those injuries are irrelevant to you because you want to blame everything on the coaches.

In your eyes, nothing else matters why they didn\'t perform up to your expectations. It can only be the coaches fault.


What I don\'t understand is why you think we have to give the defense the benefit of the doubt. I\'ve seen nothing from the Haslett run Saints that says the defense will get better. I\'ve seen nothing from this defense in preseason that shows me that there\'s hope. So why do you feel that you have to give them the benefit of the doubt? Again - leap of faith - which is a hope not based on fact.

Why give them the benefit of the doubt huh? Well, unlike you, I don\'t hate the coaching staff and I don\'t think preseason is the BIBLE on how the defense is going to play. But here\'s the big reason: They haven\'t lost a game for us yet, so until they do I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Big leap of faith huh?

Coaching - well, we\'ll see. There have been mistakes, and there will be more. Haslett has only gotten less direct from what I\'ve seen with him in the media. [/b:39c14e1f27]I can\'t speak to his behavior in practice or meetings, but let me say this - THERE ARE NO EXCUSES. This is HIS team. If they don\'t do it this year, he should go. How long can you continue to squander this talent? How long can you believe that a change is coming when there\'s been no sign of it for years? In fact, there have only been signs of the opposite.
There will be more mistakes huh? More BIASED assumptions. To hear you talk about Haslett you would swear we were the Bengals. Let\'s fire the coaching staff and take all this talent to the super bowl. I hear ya!!

Be optimistic Billy, go ahead. I just now know that that optimism is based on little hard evidence and a whole lot of hope. That\'s fine, there are always people like this. Just don\'t try to argue and tell me why I\'m crazy for being a pessimist, but honestly, I\'m pretty close to reality, not pessimism.
Optimisim not based on facts huh? The fact is there have been no games played yet and just because the defense hasn\'t looked good in preseason doesn\'t automatically mean they will be bad. That\'s your GUESS!! You got facts? Where they at?

Isn\'t this the point when you call me a fag?
No this is the point where I ask you to point out the postives about the coaching staff?

[Edited on 26/8/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
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Old 08-26-2003, 12:48 PM   #38
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The Sky is Falling

Coaching staff: I give them credit for working out a game plan that utilizes the strengths of this team (especially on offense). But this really is the \"show me\"-season for McCarthy. The games against the Bays were won because they had a good game plan and the opposing defenses hadn\'t figured out yet how to defend this offense.
The adjusting part is a major concern. Adjusting means you make the most out of what you have if a player is injured (see Philadelphia) and you can react if plan A doesn\'t work. Of course injuries played a part in the collapse last season, but it is obvious to me that coaching played a role too. Defensive coordinators had more tape available to cook up a strategy of how to defend against this high-powered offense. And McCarthy didn\'t have any answers.
Same goes for the defense although a little less. Once the weaknesses were apparent, opposing offenses had a field day exploiting them. And Venturi had no idea what do to. I say a little less because he just didn\'t have the players to stop certain plays. Pretty hard to stop the run if your DTs get beat on every down in the 3rd and 4th quarter.

Look at the Bengals game and tell me again it\'s not about coaching. They had problems adjusting, that\'s a fact. Hopefully this will change this year and they come up with the right schemes late in the season, exploiting weaknesses of opposing teams. But there\'s not much to base this hope on.

\"What is Wal-Mart? Is it like they sell wall stuff?\"
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Old 08-26-2003, 01:28 PM   #39
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The Sky is Falling

Fact #1. tha saints defense was crap last year. Fact #2. the saints defense has not shown they will be any better this year. Fact #3. the saints have the same coaches this year. Fact#4. the saints never adjusted once during last season. They had the same game plan for each game and they never changed the game plan during the game. Hazlett himself said many times they thought they had a good gameplan and stuck with it.

Why is it this coaching staff has to have the hardest playbook for players to understand? they have said this many times. How long has the organized football been played now? 70+ yrs? this coaching staff thinks they have reinvent to game? Here is a clue. It is not about tricking up the game, its about having disciplined players who know where they are suppose to be and get there. It is about getting into your opposing coaches head and predicting what he is going to do and having a plan to counter that.

Fact#5. two years ago failure was blamed on not having the full coaching scheme implemented. Fact#6. Last year failure was blamed on young players and Brooks injury. How much do you want to bet this years excuse will be the new players on defense did not have enough time to gell.

I have never heard the word \"gell\" so much in all of football as much as I have heard it from the saints this preseason. This is nothing but an excuse.

I am not a titans fan but I am going back to them again for an example. I saw on another board where they are starting rookie LB\'s, and a new defensive backfield themselves. They don\'t seem to be having problems \"gelling\". Excuses have no place in football and this coaching staff makes more excuses then I have ever seen in my life.

Yes I am out on this coaching staff. My eyes, my ears, and my insticts tell me HAZ is a fake. The reason everything is a secret is becasue he doesn\'t want to show his ignorance. Best way to cover up ignorance is to not say anything.
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Old 08-26-2003, 01:50 PM   #40
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The Sky is Falling

FWtex: Yes I am out on this coaching staff. My eyes, my ears, and my insticts tell me HAZ is a fake. The reason everything is a secret is becasue he doesn\'t want to show his ignorance. Best way to cover up ignorance is to not say anything.
I\'m not convinced he\'s a fake yet, but I am a bit more skeptical now. If they go 7-9 or worse this year I\'ll be on board with ya Bro\'.

This is an 11 win team talent wise. Parcell would give his left one for this much talent in Dallas. He\'d win 12 with this team, no question.
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