thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

Final cuts are in and except for a couple moves over the next week we now see what the saints put together for this year. Are you Impressed?

I am not! I hate always sounding like a pessimist this year but I don't see any reason why I should be optimistic about this team. Saints knew in the middle of last season what their weaknesses were and what they needed to improve. I don't see where they made any progress at all in those areas. I think the roster today is worse then the roster the team started with last year.

QB - same as last year --good
rb - no depth, deuce is da stud though!
wr - same as last year ---good
OL - same as last year -- maybe a little worse,
Def. line - a little more improved but nothing great -- yet?
LB - a make shift group, may be faster but none would be a starter on many other teams
CB - dale carter and a group of players who would not start elsewhere, no depth
safety- - T-buck is an improvement but then what?

Head coach - same as last year -- appears weak, In offseason brought in other coaches to help teach him and his staff. ?? What the F___?
Off Coord - same as last year ---half season wonder? can he adjust game plan or will he be just as predictable?
def. Coord - same as last year --- any sign he knows what he is doing? Can he translate the schemes in his head onto the field?
Asst coaches - same as last year

From my view I don't see any improvement from last year. If you asked Haslett if he thought this team is good enough to win the NFC what do you think his honest answer would be?

[Edited on 1/9/2003 by FWtex]

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

That\'s a good assessment. Now here\'s mine.

With all the problems this team had last year-- that most everyone wants to dwell on -- Don\'t forget this team was 1- game away from the playoffs. Don\'t forget they beat Green Bay, San Francisco, Pittsburg, and Tampa twice. Don\'t forget that Duece and Aaron had significant injuries that played a part in them losing down the stretch last year.

This team didn\'t just automatically get bad over night. As a matter-of-fact, I think if not for the injuries to Aaron, Duece, and Stallworth that the Saints would have easily gotten into the playoffs last year.

People analyze the December collapse and try to figure out what happened. Well, has anyone been able to figure it out? There is no figuring it out!! There were so many things that happend towards the end of last year, that there is no one anwser.

I\'ve heard everyone question the play calling, lack of leadership, and everything else under the sun. Of course everyone leaves out the fact that when all the starters were healthy on offense that we were almost unstopable. Go back and look at the point where the Saints started losing last year. I bet it\'s the same time that Aaron, Duece and Stallworth got hurt. Of course, I guess that\'s minor compared to the other reasons everyone else gives.



We will be just fine.

Record after Aaron and Duece got hurt 2-5

11/17 17-24 L at ATL (Duece McAllister Injuried)
11/24 15-24 L CLE
12/01 23-20 W TB ( Aaron Brooks Injuried)
12/08 37-25 W at BAL
12/15 31-32 L MIN
12/22 13-20 L at CIN
12/29 6-10 L CAR


Record before Duece and Aaron were hurt 7-2

09/08 26-20 W at TB
09/15 35-20 W GB
09/22 29-23 W at CHI
09/29 21-26 L at DET
0/06 32-29 W PIT
10/13 43-27 W at WAS
10/20 35-27 W SF
10/27 35-37 L ATL
11/10 34-24 W at CAR










[Edited on 1/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

thank you billy

i have been saying the same thing for months but i never even get a reply, i guess it\'s because no one can argue with what was just said

no team is perfect which seems to be what these guys want, tampa won it all last year and their offense was barely adequete at best

thank god it\'s less than a week till the season, i think i\'m gonna explode

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

Part of what you show us with last year\'s record, Billy, proves Tex\'s point. The team did go into a tailspin when the big two got hurt. While I feel good about the backup QB situation, the RB depth is horrible. I believe what Tex is trying to say is that the organization knew that RB depth was horrible at the end of last season, yet, here we are a week before the first game with only two running backs on the roster who know the system.

Is it irrational to expect that the coaches/management address this situation differently?

Also, I agree that the same thing applies to the LB situation, although I do admit we brought two guys on (Rodgers and Ruff) who add depth. Rodgers will be a starter all year and may be a steal. Ruff has already lost the competition to start to a thirty-four year old.

As far as the secondary goes, Jones was an outstanding addition, but, once again, we have no depth.

These problems are not surprises. We knew about them at the end of last season (which was November for us), and little was done to remedy them.

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

Man this is getting old and worn out.
But I\'ll give it one last try TEX

QB - same as last year --good
BETTER, DEEPER
rb - no depth, deuce is da stud though!
Keaton was a bust, not our fault, his. We still plan to improve
wr - same as last year ---good
Good? how about GREAT, and now DEEPER.
OL - same as last year -- maybe a little worse,
SAME? We are much better without the POSER on our team now. I saw him get ragdolled every other play. A BUST at LT. Hmmm, I wonder how he\'s doing at left tackle in St Louis?
Def. line - a little more improved but nothing great -- yet?
LITTLE? after the debacle last year I\'d have to say this years line is DRASTICALLY improved.
LB - a make shift group, may be faster but none would be a starter on many other teams
We got rid of a flop who\'s now starting on another team.
CB - dale carter and a group of players who would not start elsewhere, no depth
safety- - T-buck is an improvement but then what?
Depth at Safety was never a concern for anybody until our starter got injured and out for the year. I guess you saw that coming though?

Head coach - same as last year -- appears weak, In offseason brought in other coaches to help teach him and his staff. ?? What the F___?
See Haslett/Venturi thread
Off Coord - same as last year ---half season wonder? can he adjust game plan or will he be just as predictable?
Probably the only thing you said with any originality and insight
def. Coord - same as last year --- any sign he knows what he is doing? Can he translate the schemes in his head onto the field?
OK probably the 2nd thing, but the jury is still out on him, see Haslett/Venturi thread
Asst coaches - same as last year
So What

From my view I don\'t see any improvement from last year.
What view do you have, the nosebleeds?
If you asked Haslett if he thought this team is good enough to win the NFC what do you think his honest answer would be?
Absolutely positively YES!


If you can\'t see the improvements, its because you choose not to.

[Edited on 1/9/2003 by tweeky]

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

Let\'s put it this way. If you take Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk, and Tory Holt out of the Rams starting offense. How do you think they would do? I think that question has already been answered.


Or, take Brad Johnson, Warren Sapp, and Simen Rice away from Tampa and how do you think they would do?

As far as us getting a back-up running back -- there are plenty of very good back-ups out there and they will have plenty of time to learn the offense.

Also the Saints signed plenty of players to address the defensive problems. They just didn\'t sign the players most fans coveted.

[Edited on 1/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

Pace is back. And Turley is a good RT, he\'ll do fine until his ego takes over.

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

I do not believe in the theory of looking at back at last years team and playing the \"IF\" game. \"IFs\" are going to happen every year and beleive it or not but good teams prepare for the \"IFs\". The organization did not address the \"IFs\" that surfaced last year.

Here is pPart of Billy\'s post with a few changes.
---------------------------------------------
With all the problems this team had last year-- that most everyone DWELLS on -- Don\'t forget this team LOST TO ATL TWICE, CLEVE, MINN, CINN, AND CAR TO FINISH 1 GAME OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS. Don\'t forget that Duece and Aaron had significant injuries that played a part in them losing down the stretch last year.
---------------------------------------------

And a few remarks on tweeks observations.

rb - no depth, deuce is da stud though!
Keaton was a bust, not our fault, his. We still plan to improve
SO BUSTS ARE NO LONGER THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE EVALUATION STAFF? PLAN??? IT IS WAY PAST TIME TO PLAN THIS YEAR.

wr - same as last year ---good
Good? how about GREAT, and now DEEPER.
THIS IS WAS NOT A PROBLEM AREA, STILL ISN\'T

OL - same as last year -- maybe a little worse,
SAME? We are much better without the POSER on our team now. I saw him get ragdolled every other play. A BUST at LT. Hmmm, I wonder how he\'s doing at left tackle in St Louis?
I AM NOT CONCERNED HOW TURLEY IS PLAYING AT ST. LOU. WATCH AND SEE HOW MANY BIG PLAYS GET CALLED BACK BECAUSE OF HOLDING THIS YEAR.

Def. line - a little more improved but nothing great -- yet?
LITTLE? after the debacle last year I\'d have to say this years line is DRASTICALLY improved.
SAINTS SWAP SULLY FOR HAND AND YOU SAY THAT IS A DRASTIC IMPROVEMENT?

LB - a make shift group, may be faster but none would be a starter on many other teams
We got rid of a flop who\'s now starting on another team.
GOT RID OF A FLOP AND PICKED UP ANOTHER. ??

safety- - T-buck is an improvement but then what?
Depth at Safety was never a concern for anybody until our starter got injured and out for the year. I guess you saw that coming though?
INJURIES ARE A FLUKE OCCURENCE IN THE NFL I GUESS? STILL THE QUESTION IS BETTER OR WORSE?


From my view I don\'t see any improvement from last year.
What view do you have, the nosebleeds?
AND HOW IS YOUR VIEWPOINT ANY BETTER?

If you asked Haslett if he thought this team is good enough to win the NFC what do you think his honest answer would be?
Absolutely positively YES!
I SAID \"HONEST\" ANSWER!


If you can\'t see the improvements, its because you choose not to.
If you see the improvements, its because you choose not to SEE THE FLAWS.

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

FWtex, using your logic and given about 1 hour, I can make all 32 teams look like a bunch of losers based on their off-season acquisitions. Especially using the \"our back-ups at position X aren\'t up to snuff, what was our GM thinking?\" line.
But its too old, boring, and way too played out.

All 53 players can\'t be pro-bowlers. Its tiring arguing with fans that can\'t understand that.
Here\'s a thought,
Why don\'t we try to get
Donovan McNabb
Terrell Owens,
Marvin Harrison,
Rickey Williams,
O. Pace,
Ray Lewis,
Zack Thomas
Derrick Brooks.
Waren Sapp,
Anthony McFarland,
and Michael Stahan.

We must have incompetant Boobs running this outfit.

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

Tweeky -- I started to say the same thing. But, my head is hurting from banging it up against the wall.

I think anyone who say\'s the Saints don\'t have a chance at going to the playoffs don\'t know what the hell they\'re talking about.

Some people are just going to complain no matter what. They are going to look very foolish come Sunday and hopefully we won\'t have to hear all that whining anymore.

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

Ouch.

You guys act lack people who question the moves/lack of moves are Falcons fans or something.

We have no depth at running back. We have a pro bowl starter, but we all saw the effects of his injury to the team last year. Therefore, finding a backup running back should have been a priority during the entire off season rather than something we\'re scrambling to address six days before the opening of the season.

Billy, you said that a new running back would have plenty of time to learn the system. Wasn\'t that the problem with Keaton last year? The system was too complicated, and he couldn\'t learn it fast enough to be productive. Was that a lie? Does that simply show that the staff couldn\'t adequately measure his talent quickly enough? I don\'t know.

At linebacker, we have no impact player or even a player that would be guaranteed to start on another team. Why is it so bad to be upset with team management for not adding quality players to this position?

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

If I could turn off 3/4 of my brain I may be able to argue with your logic.


I would wait until after week 3 to see who is going to look foolish. With SEA injury situation the saints had better roll on them. If they don\'t roll on Houston then you may call it a let down.

Week 3 should be the first true test and by that time and there after should be no freakin excuses for anything. I don\'t want to hear about injuries and a bunch of IFs. Tenn, Ind, and Car. will tell us if the second half of last year was a fluke or if this team has problems with its direction. I see 3-6 or 4-5 record at the bye.

Where ya\'ll at at the bye? put it down.

[Edited on 1/9/2003 by FWtex]

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

Let me see if I got this straight. The Seahawks have a cornerback and an OT hurt and you think the \" Saints had better roll on them.\" Yet, last year we have Duece, Aaron, Stallworth, and Paython injuried and you think the Saints coahes are at fault. Shouldn\'t Mike Holgren have addressed the weak areaa of his team in the offseason so fans like yourself couldn\'t make excuses for the Seahawks if they lost to the Saints. I mean they knew what the weak areas of the Seahawks were before the first game on the season. Did they not?

Another thing. How can the Saints even have a chance of beating the Seahawks? We have a head coach who is no good. The worst D coordinator in the NFL. We have a secondary that wouldn\'t be in the NFL if not for the Saints. We have no back-up running back.

FWtex -- How you gonna make excuses for the Seahawks injuries and overlook the fact that the Saints had injuries at the key positons on offense. You might not be a hater but .................. No - I can\'t let you off -- YOU ARE A HATER.

[Edited on 1/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

Tex, don\'t bother. I have been down this tired road with Billy before. As has WhoDat and a few other\'s. I want the best for the team also, however I am a realist not attending a tea party with a Mad Hatter and watching a hooka smoking catepillar.

[Edited on 2/9/2003 by subguy]

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

I\'m offened by that. JoeSam I request that that last post by Subguy be edited. I am a born again poster and I do not wish to be insulted. Can anyone feel my pain?

By the way if you\'re going to insult me make sure I can understand the insults.

What is a hatter? And what is a smoking caterpillar???



[Edited on 2/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

hell tex you have it all figured out, why are you even going to watch the games?

i can\'t believe you guys, the \'evil empire\' (as you see the saints organization) thought they had depth at RB in keaton, they thought or maybe he convinced them that his problem was lack of experience in the system, well guess what? maybe keaton just sucked, so they picked a dud and no other team in the nfl has done that right?

DL well i would consider 2 new starters (that would be 50% or half if you can\'t figure the math) a drastic change, grant was a rookie and only started like the last 6 games, couple him with A FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK and yeah it\'s a new line with a good upside

safety wasn\'t an issue until we lost our starter, \'but they should have planned for injury\' yeah and we should plan for injuries at all 22 starting spots, since math isn\'t your strong suit i\'ll explain it for you, they have this little thing called a SALARY CAP, ask tenn about it, oh wait they have no depth at QB they must a part of the \'evil empire\' too

tex you don\'t see any improvement from last year? well we started 7-1 and missed the playoffs by a game due to injuries last year so why are you so worried?

i don\'t understand how this happened everyone here seemed sane going into the preseason, then even though no one believes the preseason means anything you all took a double shot of haterade and we\'re going to go 2-14 because has is secretly darth vader and AB is the red faced horny dude(not much of a star wars fan sorry)

i can\'t believe it but i\'m standing with billy on this one, saintfan and tweeky too seem to have maintained sanity

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

THERE I FEEL BETTER

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

I didn\'t read much of this, but let me say that I agree mostly with what FW is saying.

Of course we won\'t know really for about 8 weeks, but right now I most agree.

QB - Brooks can be great if he comes together. He COULD also be a flop. We don\'t know yet. The fact that a number of analysts are still writing stories saying that his arm could be a problem worries me. The questions now about him are the same they were last season at this time. Will he start using his feet for us again - can he improve his efficiency - is he smart enough to be great or just really athletic.... plus, now you have to wonder about his arm and leadership ability - thing I wasn\'t worried about this time last year.

RB - Deuce is the best player on our team hands down. If the man goes down, our season is absolutely sunk. That\'s VERY scary. We went into off-season needing a back-up. We came out needing a back-up - worse actually b/c now we\'re going with Fenderson, who was a third stringer last season.

WR - Should be awesome... SHOULD be. Horn is rock-solid - but some even on this board (GATOR) wonder when he is going to start showing signs of age. Not this year if you ask me, but it is a concern you have to consider. Dante SHOULD be a stud if he doesn\'t hurt his hammies... oops, too late. Pathon, great third guy.

TE - Who knows. The fact that the guy we\'re talking about most is a guy we were wondering about making the team is scary. I think Conwell will step it up and be very good for us. That\'s an improvement.

OL - worse. Period. Bentley is a stud, but Gandy is NOT the LT Turley is. The only hope is that Turley truly was a HUGE distractions and really did hamper the offense last season. Otherwise, expect to see even more Brooks backpeddling and possibly our fourth LT in four years next season. I like Gandy from what I know of him as a guy, but he\'s not as talented as Turley.

DL - We\'ll see. Big question marks. If Sullivan steps up, and Jackson keeps his weight down and plays like he is capable of, then we should be OK - again assuming Grant and Howard can stay healthy - something that is catastrophic if they can\'t. There SHOULD be improvement here, but we haven\'t seen it yet.

LBs - Echo? Big question marks. Rodgers is the most talented guy on the team and has the potential to be a bona fide force on the outside. Smith is a great leader, but an average LB at best. Allen/Hodge - who knows. Hopefully one will step up - again, it\'s a question mark. We\'ll see - Rodgers is an improvement, but I think we got worse at MLB and the other OLB spot is very questionable. It\'s a scratch to me right now.

CBs - Too many ifs for a bunch of 30+ year olds. If Carter can return to form, AND/OR Ambrose can be the player he was, not the one he seems to be, AND/OR Thomas can continue to play like a starter in the nickel spot, AND/OR none of them get hurt, AND/OR they gel... if if if if if if if if.... No improvement here.

S - Tebucky SHOULD be an upgrade. Bellamy is no worse b/c he was the starter last season. This is also a scratch b/c while the safety position seems more athletic they also seem to have big communication problems. The fact that they have to gel is concerning. What looked like it was the biggest area of improvement now seems like a scratch.

Over all I won\'t argue with anyone that looks at this optimistically and says that we got better as a team. HOWEVER, I don\'t think we got better enough to make a noticable difference. I just don\'t see anything on the defensive side of the ball that says to me - oh yeah, right there, that\'s a major upgrade. We needed that in a few positions and I don\'t think we got it.

I won\'t go so far as to say this off-season was a failure. However, with our great cap position going into the off-season, if this team (mainly the D) isn\'t drastically improved I will be upset.

thoughts on saints after final cuts?
 

hmmmm?? from what I am reading billy it sounds like you are kinda blowing your own argument. LOL

For the record, I have NEVER said injuries do not play a role in a teams success or failure. I have said over and over and over that injuries were used as an excuse for the saints last year and that even with the injury problems they had they should not have had the collapse at the end of the year.

You on the other hand have used the injuries as the be all excuse for the collapse.

I am going to give you a bone here billy. I am seriously leaning on going away from my comment that the saints should roll on SEA becasue of there injuries. After reading more from both sides I think it will be best to wait until thursdays injury report to come out. The saints appear to be holding back on the health of a few players that may make me pick SEA.

Before you start in on your ridiculous injury logic ... stop. Injuries are part of the freakin game. you adjust to what you have and move on. The rams, NE and denver all had major injuries and they went on to win superbowls. How did they do that?

Rusta, sounds like you are trying to tell me you have it figured out. gotta feel kinda foolish calling the kettle black huh?

How many times have I read on this one thread that the saints missed the playoffs by one game. Guess what wether it is by one game or 15 games they still missed the freakin playoffs. I guess in your mind last year was a success becasue they missed by one game?