Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

overall, in week 1, the saints "d" played better than the Offense, that is something i am not accustomed to seeing, due to the stinky defenses of the past two years i was expecting the same thing this year, and in week 2, the defense played even better, and the offense clicked, so i think that Rick Venturi, is starting to do his job and give us a defense that can kick some booty, so the question is, will venturi keep doing his job like he is supposed to, or will we be looking for a new Def. Coordinator this upcoming offseason?

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

Going into week 3 of the 2003 season Saints defense ranks 9th.....I don`t think we could ask for much better. If our offense plays up to their potential, nobody should out score us.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

I agree.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

I believe that our 9th place statistical ranking is skewed by some factors that make us higher than we should be.....but I have to give credit when it\'s due. We are looking very good on third down plays, forcing the offense where we want them to have to beat us to pick up the down. We have gotten alot of production out of a banged up DL and I\'m really surprised by that. I think that has keyed the seeming transformation of our defense. I can\'t really say I think our LBers or secondary are much improved because they sure get a chance to look better playing behind a DL that generates consistent pressure.

I\'d love to see Venturi let them be more aggressive after the QB in blitzing but I will say I\'m surprised at how much better they look than I prredicted, so hat\'s off to Rick at this point.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

I think Venturi might be hangin around for a little while, i really dont think he will lose his job. at least not this year.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

I also think our defensive ranking is skewed. After last year it was apparant that the defense needed a major overhaul and more speed. I don\'t think it was possible to go out and get a probowl player to filll every area of need on the defense. I commend Haz and company for addressing the defensive line first. I think there are many teams in the NFL that have so-so secondarys that excel because the D-line consistanly gets pressure on the QB.

This defense is probably a year away from being dominite, but I think with the offense we have, that the new defense will give this team a realistic chance at going to the playoffs. Then anything can happen....




[Edited on 20/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

[Edited on 20/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

No, it definitely isn\'t possible to field a Pro Bowler at every spot, although you can make guys look like them......(see Dexter Jackson) by having a great DL.

I do think the one thing we are missing on this defense is one bonafide superstar. That one player that everyone else can rally around their example. It\'s one thing to have vocal leadership, and that is very important. Darren Smith seems to be a good veteran leader the players can look to when things are tough. He\'s been around. But I think to truly be a great defense we will need one standout player. Who knows, maybe Charles Grant can be that guy. Every game I watch he gets better.

That was the whole reason I really wanted to see Spikes here. I agree that we probably didn\'t have a shot in hell of getting him, but that is the caliber of guy that this defense needs to go to upper level. As Madden 2004 would put it....\"a playmaker\".

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

i disagree lummox

look at the patriots defense the year they won the super bowl, they had a lot of solid guys but no \'playmaker\' as you put it, yet their defense was one of the best that year, granted they have belichick, but again if you look at baltimore last year they were solid on defense even without their \'playmaker\' lewis

i think the most important factor on defense is trust, a players trust in his teamates and their abilities on defense, i hope that with the majority of our defense being young and most having joined the team within the last 2 years that they feel a comradery and build that trust quickly

so far so good, i think the titans will be a good test as long as mcnair plays

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

I\'ve been waiting on Charles Grant to emerge as a leader on this defense. I agree with you LummoOx that this team needs the elite player on defense, that his play on the field does his talking for him.

Willie Whitehead sure seems to bring some fire and emotion to this defense. Let\'s hope it continues against the Titans. Willie has always impressed me when he has been given a chance to play.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

I wasn\'t saying you can\'t win without the standout superstar rusta, but to someone has to take it to the superstar level every game. Whether it\'s a combination of guys over the course of the year, or ne guy all year long.

As for the Pats in the bowl, Ty Law has always been, in my opinion a top 10 CB, and he was like a blanket in that game. I don\'t think any corner could have played better than he did that day. For Baltimore Chris McAllister was the same way all last year. He took one WR out of the game, and for a defensive coordinator, that makes the field alot smaller to defend. Having guys like Boulware, which forced alot of double teams, and rookie Ed Reed was big made them very solid. Sometimes a guy doesn\'t have to have Pro Bowl stats to make a Pro Bowl impact on the field. McAllister and Champ Bailey are good examples. The ball doesn\'t come that way, but they have great impact on the games.

And I agree that they need to be a cohesive unit. No one player will be the defense. I just see great value in a focal or rallying point that a defense centers around.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

While I agree that I would like to have that one special guy on defense Rusta brings up a good point. Remember the 72 Dolphins??

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

i understand lummox

i never said i didn\'t want a spikes, hell i probably woulda peed my pants if we had got spikes

but i think we will be ok for now, with all the corners out there next year hopefully we can make some big pickups next year

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

You could say the same about any great defense. The Bears, Steelers, Raiders, Vikings, Rams...of old of course. There were so many seemingly dominant players that it was hard to distinguish a superstar from a coat rider. The 72 Dolphins defense was so solid that there didn\'t appear to be a weak link. But they got the no name defense moniker strictly because Tom Landry had altzheimer\'s, not because there was no standouts. They had 4 defenders go to the All NFL defense in 72. That 4 of 11 of the best defenders in the NFL.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

You betcha.....standout CB for next year.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

You guys watch, we\'re taking an offensive lineman from Georgia in the first round next year.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

LummOx --

I don\'t think that because every player on a defense is solid that it would keep a domiante player from being recognized. Ed too Tall Jones comes to mind, and Charles Haley too. Both players played on solid defenses but were recongized as being dominate.

I am speaking about those elite players you said you would like to see on our defense. Not solid players.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

I agree with rusta. Once you have solid players at every position and people have trust in each other, it gives individuals the chance to shine and become playmakers. And so far we aren\'t solid all around in my opinion.
I\'m not sold on our defense yet. The Titans and Colts will provide a real test. If they are still ranked 9th after these games, I might reconsider, but right now they just look so improved because the Seahawks didn\'t have to score more points and the defense played as well as possible against a Texans team that came of an emotional high.
Back to the thread title: Venturi surprised me and the Texans offense with some of the things he did. So yes, he is - so far - indeed doing a better job with the defense. But that game was played near 100% by the players and we\'ll see if they can keep it up.
I\'m the disbelieving Thomas here and need more proof that it\'s not just a fluke.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

This is just for fun, but how would you classify the career of an elite individual player?

NFL records?
Team records?
Hall of fame?
League leading?


If a player set a team or NFL record, is he considered elite? If a player makes the hall of fame is he considered elite? If he leads the league in a statistical category is he considered elite?

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

hey lumm0x, what about this, what if a player makes it to the Probowl a certain number of times, or how many suberbowl rings he has, what about all of the awards the player has received, like Offensive rookie of the year that kind of stuff, i agree with you lumm0x, every one has a different defnition of what makes a player elite, don\'t you guys think there should be a common definition?

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

The ability to take over a game to me defines an elite player.


As far as what defines an elite career. I think you have to split that up in in a few catergories.


1. Individual success.

2.. Team success.

3. length of career.

Individual success (stats) weigh heavily on how one\'s career is looked at.

Team success -- (superbowls) Turns good or great players into legends.

Length of career -- Allows players to break all time records, such as the running or passing records, and turns them into legands.

So to anwser your question lummOx all of it.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

To answer lumm0x: It\'s more problematic to define a great defensive player than a great offensive player. RBs can easily be evaluated by yards and TDs. How about a great corner who simply takes the best receiver of a team out of the game week-in and week-out because QBs are afraid to throw anywhere he might get his hands on the ball? How about a great defensive lineman who gets double-teamed on every play and still manages to collapse the pocket on some plays?
They may end with 0 tackles and they still were a force.
So team success, Pro Bowl spots and obviously a spot in Canton are ways to tell he was an elite player.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

If it\'s stats, pro bowls, team success, super bowls, length of career, hall of fame....all together....


then the 72 Dolpins defense must have had about 6 \"elite\" players on it. That team has the individual stats, team stats, super bowls, durable starters, and more hall of famers than any other team in football.They were no name by no means.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/featu...217_59,00.html




No-Names leave their mark
By Anthony Holden
Special to SportsLine.com



Just days before his Dallas Cowboys were to meet the Miami Dolphins in Super Bowl VI at Tulane Stadium in New Orleans, coach Tom Landry was asked to assess the Miami defense that had allowed just 174 points during the 1971 regular season.



Safety Jake Scott was a force in the
\"I can\'t recall their names,\" Landry said, \"but they are a matter of great concern to us.\" Thus was born the \"No-Name Defense.\"

While they weren\'t too much of a concern to the Cowboys on Super Sunday as Dallas rolled to a 24-3 victory, Miami\'s unsung defense would go on to key pro football\'s only perfect season (17-0) and help deliver back-to-back Super Bowl championships in 1972 and \'73.

Five offensive players from Miami\'s 1972 perfect team have made it to the Pro Football Hall of Fame (fullback Larry Csonka, guard Larry Little, quarterback Bob Griese, wide receiver Paul Warfield and center Jim Langer), but not one member of the defense has been enshrined.

\"Bothersome,\" is how coach Don Shula reacts to that fact. \"They took a lot of pride in being unselfish, but we had some great performances. Nick Buoniconti, Dick Anderson and Manny Fernandez are all deserving.\"

Bill Arnsparger, the defensive coordinator and architect of that group, thinks the unit should be enshrined collectively. \"The No-Names as a group should be inducted into the Hall of Fame,\" Arnsparger said. \"It would be unique, but it would be the only appropriate way to credit them. You can\'t single out one player. Nobody knew who they were, and they all played selflessly.\"

This collective group of No-Names were Fernandez, Bob Heinz, Vern Den Herder and Bill Stanfill, linebackers Nick Buoniconti, Bob Matheson, Mike Kolen and Doug Swift, cornerbacks Tim Foley and Curtis Johnson, and safeties Jake Scott and Dick Anderson. Individually, maybe they weren\'t the greatest players at their positions, but collectively, they were as good as any defense in the history of the game.


N O - N A M E S
LDE -- Vern Den Herder
LDT -- Manny Fernandez
RDT -- Bob Heinz
RDE -- Bill Stanfill
LLB -- Doug Swift
MLB -- Nick Buoniconti
RLB -- Mike Kolen
LCB -- Tim Foley
RCB -- Curtis Johnson
SS -- Jake Scott
FS -- Dick Anderson

\"They wouldn\'t beat you up physically,\" said Langer, who had to practice against this unit every day. \"But they got the job done.\"

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Terry Bradshaw found this out in the 1972 AFC Championship Game. \"The Dolphins didn\'t scare us,\" said Bradshaw, who was one week removed from having thrown the pass that resulted in the Immaculate Reception by Franco Harris, which beat Oakland in the divisional playoffs. \"They didn\'t have those mean, intimidating people. That defense of theirs, basically nice guys. They didn\'t have a Mean Joe Greene or a Mad Dog White like we had.\" Those nice guys held the Steelers to just 13 first downs and 250 yards as the Dolphins won their second straight AFC title with a 21-17 win.

In 1972, the No-Name defense gave up just 18 touchdowns in 14 regular-season games, and five of those came in the fourth quarter of one-sided routs. The Dolphins intercepted 26 passes, recorded 33 sacks, and allowed NFL lows in yards (3,297) and points (171).


Although Miami lost two games the following season, Arnsparger\'s unit played even better. It allowed a league-low 150 points and 15 touchdowns. It held seven opponents to single-digit scoring. In the team\'s two losses, to Oakland (12-7) and Baltimore (16-3), the defense allowed just one touchdown.

\"The No-Name defense took a lot of pride in the 11-man concept,\" Shula said.

Up front, Den Herder and Stanfill were sleekly styled ends in the 250-pound range who could rush the passer and close down passing lanes because each stood 6-foot-5. \"[Den Herder] is the finest defensive end I\'ve ever had play for me,\" Shula once said. In the middle, Fernandez and Heinz were a pair of overachieving tackles who were sturdy against the run.

The linebacking crew had two things in common: All weighed in at about 220 pounds, and all were multi-faceted performers who weren\'t particularly excellent in one area. However, they weren\'t weak in any, either.

The hub of the defense was the 5-11 Buoniconti, a middle linebacker blessed with desire and intelligence, which were more than enough to offset his physical shortcomings. \"When Butkus hits you, you fall the way he wants,\" Buoniconti once said. \"When I hit you, you fall the way you want. But either way, you fall.\"

Swift and Kolen were athletic outside linebackers, and the other main cog was Matheson, a substitute whose jersey number 53 became the moniker for one of Miami\'s specialty calls. The \"53 Defense\" confused opposing quarterbacks because when Matheson entered, you didn\'t know what his role was going to be. He could drop into zone pass coverage, or he could run a stunt with a lineman and rush the passer. It was the forerunner of what became the 3-4 defense.

In the secondary, Foley and Johnson were solid man-to-man cover corners who were able to take some chances because the finest safety duo in the NFL was behind them in Scott and Anderson, who still rank 1-2 in the Dolphin record book for interceptions with 35 and 34, respectively.

\"We put three linemen in, but we really rushed four,\" said Anderson. \"They never knew which of the four linebackers was coming. In essence it multiplied the offensive line\'s responsibilities by four and that was the whole idea. Our scheme was more important than the individual players.\"

The unit and that scheme was the brainchild of Arnsparger whose philosophy was pretty simple. \"You control the blocker and you find the football. And tackle. That\'s defensive football.\"

\"Arnsparger was brilliant -- the consummate chess player,\" Anderson said. \"He put us in the right position all the time, never a doubt.\"

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

In 1972 the Dolphins sent 5 defensive starters to the to the Sporting News All NFL team. So for the best 11 defenders to put on the field in one season, 5 of them were from this team. Tell\'s me that they have 5 elite players on the defense if the combination of all of the other teams couldn\'t come up with a better individual for the list.

I will never disagree they weren\'t more of a unit than individuals.

By the way Billy, how old is that link. Buoniconti\'s in the hall of fame.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

I don\'t know how old the article is. I just posted it because it told how the defense got it\'s name and I thought it showed that no one was really dominite on their defense.

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

I would tend to agree with this, but then let me ask you, how are the above categories weighted? Think Dan Marino. No SBs, nothing spectacular in team success either, but incredible stats. Or what about Warner. He had all of those things - maybe more so over a three year period than any QB ever, but it was only three years. How would he rank?

Is Rick Venturi Doing A Better Job With The Defense?
 

to answer my own question, the defense stinks just as much as it did last year at the end of the season, and we need a bunch of new coaches. hey, a new owner would be even better, one that would help us win, not put more and more money into his own pckets. that is what we really need.