NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!

st thomas · 03-02-2010, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by stockman311

Sean Weahterspoon just ran a 4.57 unofficial on his first 40 yd dash attempt. He looks really solid at 6'0 3/4" and 243 lbs.

i'm so impressed with this guy, a ricky jackson type speed off the ball. i hope we take-um if hes still there

st thomas · 03-02-2010, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

I'm starting to wonder if this is such a good draft for defensive linemen that we should draft Weatherspoon first and pick up a DT or DE in the second round.

pick this guy up first, i've got a gut feeling hes going to be awesome

st thomas · 03-02-2010, 01:23 PM

witherspoon dominated the senior bowl. i'll take live action over drills any day

stockman311 · 03-02-2010, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

woah woah woah cheif

i was cool with debating you but now that you've said that i have something to tell you

do you know why the 3-4 was invented and why its becomin more prominant?

obviously not.....the 3-4 is designed to stop the pass....thats why there are more LBs....more LBs equals more speed......its also great at pass rushing because of all the blitzes you can come up with because of the extra LB.....the 3-4 is a base defense so obviously it can guard against both the run and the pass but it is better designed to stop the pass because of the extra LB and less suited to stop the run because of the 1 less defensive lineman

the 4-3 is better suited to stop the run because of the extra defensive lineman. they have less LBs so they are a bit more liable against the pass but because its a base defense it can usually guard against both well......the extra man on the front line is supposed to stuff the run and stop it at the line of scrimmage

the 3-4 is a pass defense first and a run defense second

a 4-3 is a run defense first and a pass defense second

like i said.....both of them are base defenses so they can do both fine but 1 is better suited to stop the run and the other is better suited to stop the pass

Your wrong but don't let that get in the way of making silly statements. It never has before.

The ILB's in a 3-4 are supposed to be extremely stout and in essence bring the DLine up to 5 members from 4 on run downs. Think Vaugn Johnson and Sam Mills. The NT, think Vince Wilfork, occupies two blockers and allows the LB's to fill on the run.

stockman311 · 03-02-2010, 01:59 PM

It's also the reason we run a 4-3. Teams have to pass against us more frequently so we have LB's that are good in coverage, not thumpers against the run. Shanle, Vilma, Fujita are all very good coverage LB's against opposing TE's and RB's.

stockman311 · 03-02-2010, 02:03 PM

Just a little knowlege to help you bone up Canton.

Advantages of the 3-4 Defense
The 3-4 Defense works best against a team that enjoys sweeping their running back to the outside or having their wide recievers run slant routes through the middle. It is easy to confuse the offense with the 3-4 defense by showing different blitz packages with the linebackers who may blitz or fall back into coverage.

The linebacking positions are made up of two outside linebackers and two inside linebackers. With speedy outside linebacker and powerful inside linebackers the 3-4 Defense is the most advantageous. Outside linebackers can track down passes across the middle or running backs sweeping to the outside while the inside linebackers can stop the run up the middle (though running up the middle is the best way to take advantage of the 3-4 Defense).

Disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense
The disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense lie inside its advantages. With four linebackers stacked in the middle of the field the offense can opt to put more wide receivers on the line of scrimmage (i.e. in a spread offensive scheme) leaving one or both of the outside linebackers to cover a speedier wide receiver in the slot, an obvious mismatch for the defense.

Does that sound like a Defense that is better against the pass to you in an NFL that is moving more and more towards multiple receiver sets?

stockman311 · 03-02-2010, 02:10 PM

By the way, out of the top 5 run stuffing defenses in the league last year, 4 of them played 3-4. Like I said, don't let my use of statistics scare you from your inane posts.

Rugby Saint II · 03-02-2010, 02:50 PM

This has been the most informative disagreement that I have ever read. Both of ya'll make excellent points. This is the kind of stuff that an avid fan loves. I didn't play football(rugby is my game) so this kind of information is very valuable to someone with limited knowledge. Keep it coming.

CantonLegend · 03-02-2010, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by stockman311

Your wrong but don't let that get in the way of making silly statements. It never has before.

The ILB's in a 3-4 are supposed to be extremely stout and in essence bring the DLine up to 5 members from 4 on run downs. Think Vaugn Johnson and Sam Mills. The NT, think Vince Wilfork, occupies two blockers and allows the LB's to fill on the run.

Originally Posted by stockman311

It's also the reason we run a 4-3. Teams have to pass against us more frequently so we have LB's that are good in coverage, not thumpers against the run. Shanle, Vilma, Fujita are all very good coverage LB's against opposing TE's and RB's.

Originally Posted by stockman311

Just a little knowlege to help you bone up Canton.

Advantages of the 3-4 Defense
The 3-4 Defense works best against a team that enjoys sweeping their running back to the outside or having their wide recievers run slant routes through the middle. It is easy to confuse the offense with the 3-4 defense by showing different blitz packages with the linebackers who may blitz or fall back into coverage.

The linebacking positions are made up of two outside linebackers and two inside linebackers. With speedy outside linebacker and powerful inside linebackers the 3-4 Defense is the most advantageous. Outside linebackers can track down passes across the middle or running backs sweeping to the outside while the inside linebackers can stop the run up the middle (though running up the middle is the best way to take advantage of the 3-4 Defense).

Disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense
The disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense lie inside its advantages. With four linebackers stacked in the middle of the field the offense can opt to put more wide receivers on the line of scrimmage (i.e. in a spread offensive scheme) leaving one or both of the outside linebackers to cover a speedier wide receiver in the slot, an obvious mismatch for the defense.

Does that sound like a Defense that is better against the pass to you in an NFL that is moving more and more towards multiple receiver sets?

the 4 LBs playing anywhere from 2 to 3 yards off the line of scrimmage is not designed to help stop the run.....why would you want to stop the run 3 yards downfield when you can stop it at the line of scrimmage with an extra defensive linemen....whatever bs you just cooked up in these 3 posts has nothing to do with how the 3-4 stops the run the best

its easiest to run up the middle on a 3-4 defense because there is only 1 tackle in the middle as opposed to 2......the strength of the 3-4 is stopping the run on the outside because of the outside linebackers being split so far out

the defensive linemen are bigger in a 3-4 because they have to be....but that doesnt mean they are better at stopping the run....3-4 defensive linemen cant move as well and are confined to their small spaces.....anybody that runs outside of their arms reach is going to gain yardage. also the 3-4 gets hurt on inside runs because chip blocks are much easier.....the defensive tackles line up head up on the linemen so anybody chipping them and moving up only has to get a hand on them

the way to take advantage of any base defense is to spread them out and have the WRs mismatched on LBs.....you cant have LBs covering WRs in any defense because thats a mismatch

but having 4 LBs does take away passes in the middle and in the flats because of the LBs......something that LBs in a 4-3 simply cannot do every play because there are LESS of them

Originally Posted by stockman311

By the way, out of the top 5 run stuffing defenses in the league last year, 4 of them played 3-4. Like I said, don't let my use of statistics scare you from your inane posts.

and 5 of the top ten were 4-3s......3 of the top 5 pass defenses were 3-4s......5 of the top ten pass defenses were 3-4s.....

and the best defenses in the league were 3-4 regardless of what they were trying to do but that is mostly because the league is a passing league

so maybe.....we are doing it wrong by running a 4-3 anyway......maybe we should run more of the 3-4 if thats the defense that is the best

and cody would fit that system best apparently

either way you twist it, cody is a good fit......cody stops the run in a 3-4 or a 4-3.....cody pushes the pocket in either a 3-4 or a 4-3......the saints blitz in every formation and cody ties up blockers in every formation

im not exactly sure where this argument went but im going to vote that we keep our arguments shortened from now on.....just give me this simple answer in a couple sentences

why is the 3-4 a better run stopping defense and the 4-3 is a better pass stopping defense?

also.....ru against drafting a DT all together or just terrence cody?

CantonLegend · 03-02-2010, 02:56 PM

i'll start by presenting my point in as few sentences as possible and we can let the peanut gallery decide

the 3-4 is better at stopping the pass because of the extra LBs which gives the defense more speed.....the 4-3 is better at stopping the run because there are more down linemen at the line of scrimmage

03-02-2010, 01:15 PM	#31
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! Originally Posted by stockman311 Sean Weahterspoon just ran a 4.57 unofficial on his first 40 yd dash attempt. He looks really solid at 6'0 3/4" and 243 lbs. i'm so impressed with this guy, a ricky jackson type speed off the ball. i hope we take-um if hes still there

03-02-2010, 01:17 PM	#32
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! Originally Posted by hitta I'm starting to wonder if this is such a good draft for defensive linemen that we should draft Weatherspoon first and pick up a DT or DE in the second round. pick this guy up first, i've got a gut feeling hes going to be awesome

03-02-2010, 01:23 PM	#33
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! witherspoon dominated the senior bowl. i'll take live action over drills any day

03-02-2010, 01:50 PM	#34
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! Originally Posted by CantonLegend woah woah woah cheif i was cool with debating you but now that you've said that i have something to tell you do you know why the 3-4 was invented and why its becomin more prominant? obviously not.....the 3-4 is designed to stop the pass....thats why there are more LBs....more LBs equals more speed......its also great at pass rushing because of all the blitzes you can come up with because of the extra LB.....the 3-4 is a base defense so obviously it can guard against both the run and the pass but it is better designed to stop the pass because of the extra LB and less suited to stop the run because of the 1 less defensive lineman the 4-3 is better suited to stop the run because of the extra defensive lineman. they have less LBs so they are a bit more liable against the pass but because its a base defense it can usually guard against both well......the extra man on the front line is supposed to stuff the run and stop it at the line of scrimmage the 3-4 is a pass defense first and a run defense second a 4-3 is a run defense first and a pass defense second like i said.....both of them are base defenses so they can do both fine but 1 is better suited to stop the run and the other is better suited to stop the pass Your wrong but don't let that get in the way of making silly statements. It never has before. The ILB's in a 3-4 are supposed to be extremely stout and in essence bring the DLine up to 5 members from 4 on run downs. Think Vaugn Johnson and Sam Mills. The NT, think Vince Wilfork, occupies two blockers and allows the LB's to fill on the run.

03-02-2010, 01:59 PM	#35
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! It's also the reason we run a 4-3. Teams have to pass against us more frequently so we have LB's that are good in coverage, not thumpers against the run. Shanle, Vilma, Fujita are all very good coverage LB's against opposing TE's and RB's.

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03-02-2010, 02:03 PM	#36
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! Just a little knowlege to help you bone up Canton. Advantages of the 3-4 Defense The 3-4 Defense works best against a team that enjoys sweeping their running back to the outside or having their wide recievers run slant routes through the middle. It is easy to confuse the offense with the 3-4 defense by showing different blitz packages with the linebackers who may blitz or fall back into coverage. The linebacking positions are made up of two outside linebackers and two inside linebackers. With speedy outside linebacker and powerful inside linebackers the 3-4 Defense is the most advantageous. Outside linebackers can track down passes across the middle or running backs sweeping to the outside while the inside linebackers can stop the run up the middle (though running up the middle is the best way to take advantage of the 3-4 Defense). Disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense The disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense lie inside its advantages. With four linebackers stacked in the middle of the field the offense can opt to put more wide receivers on the line of scrimmage (i.e. in a spread offensive scheme) leaving one or both of the outside linebackers to cover a speedier wide receiver in the slot, an obvious mismatch for the defense. Does that sound like a Defense that is better against the pass to you in an NFL that is moving more and more towards multiple receiver sets?

03-02-2010, 02:10 PM	#37
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! By the way, out of the top 5 run stuffing defenses in the league last year, 4 of them played 3-4. Like I said, don't let my use of statistics scare you from your inane posts.

03-02-2010, 02:50 PM	#38
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,725	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! This has been the most informative disagreement that I have ever read. Both of ya'll make excellent points. This is the kind of stuff that an avid fan loves. I didn't play football(rugby is my game) so this kind of information is very valuable to someone with limited knowledge. Keep it coming.

03-02-2010, 02:52 PM	#39
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! Originally Posted by stockman311 Your wrong but don't let that get in the way of making silly statements. It never has before. The ILB's in a 3-4 are supposed to be extremely stout and in essence bring the DLine up to 5 members from 4 on run downs. Think Vaugn Johnson and Sam Mills. The NT, think Vince Wilfork, occupies two blockers and allows the LB's to fill on the run. Originally Posted by stockman311 It's also the reason we run a 4-3. Teams have to pass against us more frequently so we have LB's that are good in coverage, not thumpers against the run. Shanle, Vilma, Fujita are all very good coverage LB's against opposing TE's and RB's. Originally Posted by stockman311 Just a little knowlege to help you bone up Canton. Advantages of the 3-4 Defense The 3-4 Defense works best against a team that enjoys sweeping their running back to the outside or having their wide recievers run slant routes through the middle. It is easy to confuse the offense with the 3-4 defense by showing different blitz packages with the linebackers who may blitz or fall back into coverage. The linebacking positions are made up of two outside linebackers and two inside linebackers. With speedy outside linebacker and powerful inside linebackers the 3-4 Defense is the most advantageous. Outside linebackers can track down passes across the middle or running backs sweeping to the outside while the inside linebackers can stop the run up the middle (though running up the middle is the best way to take advantage of the 3-4 Defense). Disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense The disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense lie inside its advantages. With four linebackers stacked in the middle of the field the offense can opt to put more wide receivers on the line of scrimmage (i.e. in a spread offensive scheme) leaving one or both of the outside linebackers to cover a speedier wide receiver in the slot, an obvious mismatch for the defense. Does that sound like a Defense that is better against the pass to you in an NFL that is moving more and more towards multiple receiver sets? the 4 LBs playing anywhere from 2 to 3 yards off the line of scrimmage is not designed to help stop the run.....why would you want to stop the run 3 yards downfield when you can stop it at the line of scrimmage with an extra defensive linemen....whatever bs you just cooked up in these 3 posts has nothing to do with how the 3-4 stops the run the best its easiest to run up the middle on a 3-4 defense because there is only 1 tackle in the middle as opposed to 2......the strength of the 3-4 is stopping the run on the outside because of the outside linebackers being split so far out the defensive linemen are bigger in a 3-4 because they have to be....but that doesnt mean they are better at stopping the run....3-4 defensive linemen cant move as well and are confined to their small spaces.....anybody that runs outside of their arms reach is going to gain yardage. also the 3-4 gets hurt on inside runs because chip blocks are much easier.....the defensive tackles line up head up on the linemen so anybody chipping them and moving up only has to get a hand on them the way to take advantage of any base defense is to spread them out and have the WRs mismatched on LBs.....you cant have LBs covering WRs in any defense because thats a mismatch but having 4 LBs does take away passes in the middle and in the flats because of the LBs......something that LBs in a 4-3 simply cannot do every play because there are LESS of them Originally Posted by stockman311 By the way, out of the top 5 run stuffing defenses in the league last year, 4 of them played 3-4. Like I said, don't let my use of statistics scare you from your inane posts. and 5 of the top ten were 4-3s......3 of the top 5 pass defenses were 3-4s......5 of the top ten pass defenses were 3-4s..... and the best defenses in the league were 3-4 regardless of what they were trying to do but that is mostly because the league is a passing league so maybe.....we are doing it wrong by running a 4-3 anyway......maybe we should run more of the 3-4 if thats the defense that is the best and cody would fit that system best apparently either way you twist it, cody is a good fit......cody stops the run in a 3-4 or a 4-3.....cody pushes the pocket in either a 3-4 or a 4-3......the saints blitz in every formation and cody ties up blockers in every formation im not exactly sure where this argument went but im going to vote that we keep our arguments shortened from now on.....just give me this simple answer in a couple sentences why is the 3-4 a better run stopping defense and the 4-3 is a better pass stopping defense? also.....ru against drafting a DT all together or just terrence cody?
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

03-02-2010, 02:56 PM	#40
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!! i'll start by presenting my point in as few sentences as possible and we can let the peanut gallery decide the 3-4 is better at stopping the pass because of the extra LBs which gives the defense more speed.....the 4-3 is better at stopping the run because there are more down linemen at the line of scrimmage