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FWtex 09-22-2003 11:09 PM

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Since we all seem to be in somewhat of an agreement lately lets see if we can stir it up a little.
Lets have your predictions for the near future of the saints.

1. When will be the next saints win?
2. Who will have their job changed first ... Brooks or McCarthy?
3. Who will be the first in the saints organization to show their frustrations with a public outrage?
4. If Brooks gets benched when will it happen?


1. Chicago
2. Brooks
3. Horn will go off on McCarthy
4. It will happen - carolina game. Brooks will be backafter a full game on the pine.

BillyCarpenter1 09-22-2003 11:16 PM

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1. When will be the next saints win?
2. Who will have their job changed first ... Brooks or McCarthy?
3. Who will be the first in the saints organization to show their frustrations with a public outrage?
4. If Brooks gets benched when will it happen?

1. Colts
2. Neither
3. Kyle Turley. Oh you said in the organization. Deuce.
4. Will not happen !!

saintz08 09-22-2003 11:53 PM

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1. When will be the next saints win?
2. Who will have their job changed first ... Brooks or McCarthy?
3. Who will be the first in the saints organization to show their frustrations with a public outrage?
4. If Brooks gets benched when will it happen?

1. Going with a win over Carolina , Haslett will have them pumped on Defense and Brooks has something to prove to Delhommeians . Brooks will rollout more and run more this game ....

2. Mc Carthy

3. Horn , he loves to talk it up and the press loves to listen

4. Will not happen , not even an injury last year put him on the bench . Bouman looked bad in preseason , J.T. seems to have some issues for some reason he keeps geting bounced off the roster ....

FWtex 09-23-2003 09:33 AM

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I have the same thoughts about HAZ not benching Brooks when I look at last year BUT I think if HAZ had to do that over again he would not leave Brooks in. If nothing else Brooks benching will be an override decision from a desk.

This is why I think it will happen soon this year. The offense will not get anything against IND Defense. This will make 14 out of 16 qtrs the offense has shown nothing. HAZ will have to make some type of move to attemot to get a spark lit on the offense. If he does nothing he is blowing the season without giving the team a chance, and maybe his head coaching career.

The crystal ball I bought in the french QTR says Bouman will play in the carolina game and the saints will show new effort with him. HE will get the start in Chicago and the saints will win. A new Brooks will be back for the Atlanta game and we may see the wide open offense the saints had early last season. This is the only way I see of the saints getting anything going this year.


saintfan 09-23-2003 12:31 PM

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1. When will be the next saints win?
2. Who will have their job changed first ... Brooks or McCarthy?
3. Who will be the first in the saints organization to show their frustrations with a public outrage?
4. If Brooks gets benched when will it happen?

1. Colts
2. McCarthy (Brooks\' job is not in danger nor should it be)
3. Joe Horn
4. Not an issue. See #2.

WhoDat 09-23-2003 08:58 PM

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1. Bears
2. McCarthy... followed by Brooks about 6 to 8 months later.
3. Wayne Gandy
4. Against the Panthers. He won\'t get benched, he\'ll get hurt by that mean Panther D. Delhomme and the Panthers will roll despite a 200 yard two touchdown second half by Bouman, thus igniting the Brooks debate to even more ridiculous levels.

BrooksMustGo 09-23-2003 10:50 PM

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I\'m going with the all upset picks here :cool:

1. Tampa -- talk about a shocker!
2. McCarthy -- Brooks becomes trade bait for the new GM
3. I would say Grady Jackson, but that\'s too obvious
So I\'ll go with Brooks, it makes sense if you think about it, he\'s a huge \"me-first\" kind of guy, he\'ll need to deflect criticism.
4. I think he\'ll get shaken up by a sack against Tampa, I agree with WhoDat\'s #4 on the rest.

WhoDat 09-24-2003 06:17 PM

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Keep agreeing with me BMG - you;ll do well here. :)

rusta 09-24-2003 07:19 PM

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WHAT IN THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT AB? HE\'S NOT THE REASON WE ARE 1-2!!

YOU GUYS SHOULD CHANGE THE WEBSITE NAME TO AB.NET

LEAVE THE GUY ALONE HE HAS PLAYED UP TO WHAT ANYONE COULD ASK OF HIM THIS YEAR AND HE IS NOT THE REASON WE ARE LOSING

WHY NOT TALK ABOUT HOW T-BUCK LOOKS LIKE THE ABSOLUTE WORST SAFETY IN THE NFL OR HOW OUR OFFENSIVE LINE COULDN\'T STOP A PACK OF 1ST GRADERS OR HOW AMBROSE SHOULD USE A WHEELCHAIR ON THE FIELD NEXT GAME

IF YOU GUYS SAY YOU ARE NOT AB BASHERS YOU ARE DAMN L~RS!!! YOU GUYS HAVE NOTHING MORE TO TALK ABOUT BUT HOW BAD YOU THINK AB IS??

That really wasn\'t nice to say.

[Edited on 25/9/2003 by JOESAM2002]

JOESAM2002 09-24-2003 08:05 PM

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Rusta, I have a great idea. Why don\'t you start a thread about someone you think deserves to be talked about? I\'m sure someone will be glad to discuss it with you.

FWtex 09-25-2003 12:02 AM

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Come on Rusta? You are here enough to know how most of us feel about AB. The way this team is playing there has to be some type of change of pace to see if any spark can get this team going. Nobody is saying its Ab\'s fault but name a change at one other position that will have the same impact?

Qb\'s are normally the higher paid positions and lifeblood of most teams, so if they cannot handle this reality then they just may be the problem. Its nothing personal ... just football.

saintfan 09-25-2003 09:04 AM

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It\'s not smart football, FWtex, to yank the starting QB if he\'s not the problem.

saintz08 09-25-2003 09:10 AM

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If he limits your playing style in anyway or is too pricey for the cap it might be Saintsfan .....

saintfan 09-25-2003 09:21 AM

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Old and Tired 08...Old and Tired. How \'bout that 15.9 QB rating for your boy Delhomme eh? And this is the guy you wanted to replace Brooks with? Old and Tired my man...Old and tired. Funny that the only people trying to pin the Saints problems on Brooks are a select few that post here. Old and Tired.

BillyCarpenter1 09-25-2003 09:43 AM

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Quote:

If he limits your playing style in anyway or is too pricey for the cap it might be Saintsfan .....

08 comes in here stating all these things like he has been a NFL coach. 08- do you know how to read defenses? What is your experience in reading defenses? Have you ever coached on any level?

I bet you\'re the same guy who tells everyone you come in contact with how to do their job BETTER. You see the grocery boy in the supermarket and notice he is is putting 10 items in the bag and you\'re convinced he could put 12. Your mechanic is using an open end wrench and you tell him he needs to be using a socket wrench. All the while you don\'t know a damn thing about working on a car, but you just have a better way of doing EVERYTHING.

Mr. Know-it-All -- Maybe you can call N.A.S.A. and help them design a new space shuttle. You are wasting your genius on football, when you could help mankind so much more.

FWtex 09-25-2003 10:09 AM

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... and thats your opinion.

Its not smart football to keep doing the same thing that is not working over and over.

BillyCarpenter1 09-25-2003 10:12 AM

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Quote:

... and thats your opinion.

Its not smart football to keep doing the same thing that is not working over and over.
FWtex- If we are going to change just for the sake of changing, why don\'t we substitute every player? Can you answer that question for me???

saintfan 09-25-2003 10:23 AM

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If every player were named Aaron Brooks he and 08 and Whodat might just go for it. These guys can\'t pin a thing on Brooks now so they\'re asking for change for the sake of change. Old...and Tired...and not very smart either...and their agenda is showing.

TheOriginalSwampdog 09-25-2003 11:28 AM

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NEXT WIN-Jax
JOB CHANGE-BROOKS
TIRADE-CHARLES GRANT
BENCHED-AFTER THE BEARS GAME

saintz08 09-25-2003 10:38 PM

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Been around coaches , players and owners if you must know Billy . Can read defenses and have had limited coaching experience at a much lower level .

Old enough to have cheered at old tulane and the superdome ......

BillyCarpenter1 09-25-2003 10:45 PM

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Quote:

Been around coaches , players and owners if you must know Billy . Can read defenses and have had limited coaching experience at a much lower level .

Old enough to have cheered at old tulane and the superdome ......
What defenses do you have the most experience with 08? Do you think you can read defenses as good as Brooks? Would you say you have more football knowledge than Brooks? What coaches do you have conversations with? What level did you coach on? Surely if you can critcise as much as you do, then you can stand a little yourself.

BrooksMustGo 09-25-2003 10:59 PM

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Anyone who\'s cheered at Tulane knows heartache. I\'m not going to bust their balls for it.

Anyone who\'s cheered at Tulane has seen more \"quarterbacks of the future\" and heard more promises to build a winner to know that Brooks aint it and Haz-matic aint getting it done.

saintz08 09-26-2003 12:03 AM

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Well to really find out Billy I guess I would have to suit up and get in there with the guys now wouldn\'t I ......Of course if Brooks read coverages all that well I suppose a safety from the Browns would not have gone national with it and said that Brooks cannot ........

BillyCarpenter1 09-26-2003 07:27 AM

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08 -- One player said Brooks can\'t read defenses and we are suppose to take that as the gospel? What about the AFC scout who says Brooks has developed into a fine NFL QB that is one of the 10 best? Both of us can support our beliefs with articles. But, I bet you can\'t find any articles about Brooks not playing very well this year. The ONLY PEOPLE talking about Brooks playing poorly THIS YEAR are a few memebers on here. Looks like to me that you are seeing something this year from Aaron that all the experts don\'t see. Are you that brilliant 08, or are all the experts just that stupid?

You are so desperate to find fault in Brooks that you have resorted to critcising him for not being able to read defenses. Can a QB really not be able to read defenses and be ranked in the top 5 in passer rating in the ENITRE NFL? ANYONE with half a brain (this leaves you out) can see that Brooks is playing very well this year. Of course not everyone has hung out with NFL coaches and they don\'t have your experience at reading defenses. I bet you even have one of those telestrators and break down Arron\'s mechanics like Ron Jawsworski does on ESPN.

You are very hypocritical in you analysis of Brooks. So I don\'t use this word lightly when I say that 08 is a HYPOCRITE!!







FWtex 09-26-2003 08:29 AM

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Billie quote:
\"FWtex- If we are going to change just for the sake of changing, why don\'t we substitute every player? Can you answer that question for me???\"

Are you really serious about this question or do you think you are making a point by asking it?

I\'ll play your silly game with a few sentences. It is known to any football fan that the QB is the player who puts an identity on an offense. There is not any other position that will have an effect on every other player on the field. In the first game of this season there was a team that changed QB\'s and the team played completely different. Case closed!!!

BillyCarpenter1 09-26-2003 08:36 AM

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FWtex--

So you would pull Brooks because another team pulled their QB and played better. You would just forget the fact that Brooks is playing better than any other player on the field? What kind of message would that send to the rest of the players? Would you want to play for a coach where you could lose your starting job because the coach just wanted to experiment with your position and not pay any attention to how you played on the field? Thank God you don\'t make these decisions!!



[Edited on 26/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

lumm0x 09-26-2003 10:10 AM

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There have been a few games over the last couple of years where I would hazard to say that a decision by Brooks may have led to the loss. But with any young player, mistakes are part of the learning process and should be expected. Aaron Brooks is by no means a perfect QB, and he will likely never be a perfect QB, but he definitely is a QB of starting caliber and has more potential than 80% of current starters because of his athletic ability.

The point I was getting to is that this year, with all of the underachievement and controversy, Aaron Brooks does look like a different person. I would confidently say even in the three games we\'ve played as a team, he is one of the 5 most effective individuals in each game. Alot of members will question my reference to effectiveness since the stats won\'t clearly back that, but taking each snap of the ball and the circumstances we are in at the time the play begins, Brooks does well with each given situation.

If we were losing because he was forcing balls into coverage, ineptly disguising his fakes, holding the ball too long, or misreading coverages, I would be all over the \"same ole\' Brooks wagon. But truth be told, he\'s playing his part well. He has five guys standing in front of him that are consistently missing their assignments, that are forcing him to aid in the delay of the pass rush, forcing the running game to be highly ineffective and cause more reliance on the passing game. Our marquee WR is excelling at getting open, but like the bulk of our WR corp, has managed to drop the ball at only the most inopportune times. We have lost offensive momentum more often than I care to admit because of a dropped pass or offensive penalty. We live every possession in 3rd and long. Nearly every drive gets stopped because of a botched play by another offensive player. This is a team sport and needs all 11 individuals on the same page. This has finally and consistently been a series of games where Brooks is on a page by himself but it is now the right page. Most everyone else is reading a different book. Add to that the offense has to overcome the lack of imagination and stubborness of our game management, they are being expected to execute plays that clearly deny the weakness in the defense we face to simply stroke the ego of our OC in that he thinks he will force his will on the defense. Not working.

In my mind, some past performances were just cause to get on Aaaron\'s back, but so far this year has not been the same. Individually, he looks like the young guy we saw come in relief of Jeff Blake, playing out of fear and with something to prove. Time to lay off.

I don\'t hear anyone barking about McAllister\'s lack of production? Why is this Pro Bowl talent so ineffective? Because he\'s staring at a 9 man front, foaming at the mouth, daring us to be stupid enough to execute our play script, or force them away with the pass....and what do we do......here\'s the ball Deuce. The guys who are pointing the finger at McCarthy and Haslett right now are probably on the right witch hunt.

BillyCarpenter1 09-26-2003 10:53 AM

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That was very well said LummOx. The one thing that stood out to me was this statement:

Quote:

taking each snap of the ball and the circumstances we are in at the time the play begins, Brooks does well with each given situation.
The QB gets too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the teams loses, but you can\'t define an indivdual players effectiveness on wins and losses. This is a team sport. Every player has do do their part, and Brooks has been one of the few that has done his part. For someone to think that the QB can single handily will this offense to perform is showing their ignorance. Every QB that has ever played this game had help from their team mates. Mike Vick might be the exception to this rule but I\'m talking about passing the ball and not running with it.

Something needs to change on this offense, but I can assure you that it isn\'t the 63.3% completion rate, or Brooks ability to buy time in the pocket, to compensate for the terrible blocking of the offensive line. What needs to change is the playcalling and the mental mistakes made by the rest of the offense.

So, for those of you who want to change QB\'s in hopes of the offense performing better, that is possible, but another QB will only be more successful, IF the offensive line blocks better and the receivers quit dropping passes, and the mental mistakes stop by the rest of the offense. But, of course if that happens, then we shouldn\'t need another QB.

Of all the things that we should be talking about on here, Aaron Brooks\' play isn\'t one of them.





saintfan 09-26-2003 11:01 AM

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Oh MY G-O-D!!! LummOx never has anyone been so right on target. There\'s one game in my memory that we lost and that I hold Brooks accountable for, and that\'s the Cleveland game last year. I\'m a little rough around the edges when it comes to defending Brooks in large part because I\'m fed up with comments like the ones our \"old\" and \"tired\" buddy \"08\" keeps posting. Rather than admit he has an agenda he tries to poke hols in Brooks\' performance all the while failing to acknowledge the REAL problems with this team that you so gracefully summed up in your last post.

JOESAM2002 09-26-2003 12:13 PM

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Good post Lumm. I agree with you. I just hate when everytime someone says anything about him having room for improvement we get slammed as not being good fans. If I\'m not mistaken, there has only been 1 perfect person. As I have said many times I like Aaron, I just think there are things he could do better.

As for not being a good fan, I just consider the source. Until perfection is achieved, there is always room for improvement.

saintz08 09-26-2003 12:21 PM

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There is an old Saying for quarterbacks .

\"Quarterbacks only gets credit for the pass when it hits the receiver in the numbers , every other pass gets credited to the receiver .\"

Post reads :

He has five guys standing in front of him that are consistently missing their assignments, that are forcing him to aid in the delay of the pass rush, forcing the running game to be highly ineffective and cause more reliance on the passing game. Our marquee WR is excelling at getting open, but like the bulk of our WR corp, has managed to drop the ball at only the most inopportune times.

Missed blocking assignments , do not usually lead to a delay of the pass rush . Usually the quarterback ends up on his back or the back caught in the backfield because of an accelerated pass rush due to a missed blocking assignment .

Titans lined up 9 in the box from time to time , Do you think they really were afraid of the passing game ?? Might be that they were spying Duece and looking to cut off the underneath routes .

Receivers could be hearing the footsteps and dropping the balls , this is ball placement and if a receiver gets bell rung one to many times on bad ball placement , it happens . Look at the pounding Stallworth took in Seattle .If memory serves me well , they took Stallworths helmet off a couple of times on those shots .

It is one thing to throw a deep ball to a receiver , it is entirely another thing to consistently complete a deep ball to a receiver and make the defense respect it and not even think of putting 8 in the box .





saintfan 09-26-2003 12:36 PM

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08...you\'re old and tired and your constant attacks on Brooks are transparent. Hush up old man...

Joesam...you\'re buying into something that doesn\'t exist. NO body that I\'ve seen back Aaron Brooks has indicated (or attempted to indicate) that he was perfect. Quite the contrary. You\'re supposed to be reading all these posts man. Tell me WHO is indicating Brooks is perfect. Those of us that defend him only want to see things accurately represented which is something 08 continuously refusus to do.

saintz08 09-26-2003 12:56 PM

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Saintsfan

At 3 -0 , the old man sits back and takes notes .

At 1 -2 , it\'s time for some schoolin little boy .

lumm0x 09-26-2003 01:11 PM

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I\'ve said before that Saintsfan and Billy have \"Brooks goggles\" and it\'s also clear 08 has his anti-Brooks Grand Dragon hood on.

Brooks has earned his criticisms in my opinion, but he is not the problem in the first three games. He has played well and my take is that if you think he was the cause of the losses or contributed to the loss in the \"mechanics\" of his actions on the field then you do have an agenda against him. If he messes up a play by failing to execute the play in a sound mechanical manner then he is at fault. If he executes a play that is callled in to him exactly how he is asked to do it, and the play fails to be productive, how is that his fault? The play calling sucks and he can efficiently run all the terrible plays all day long and we\'ll lose. If he gets plays that will move the chains and he botches a throw or misses a read then it\'s his fault.


TheOriginalSwampdog 09-26-2003 01:57 PM

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Bye Bye Brooksie. Don\'t let the door hit ya\' where the good lord split ya. DRAFT ELI MANNING AND SAVE THIS FRANCHISE!

BlackandBlue 09-26-2003 02:12 PM

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Quote:

If I\'m not mistaken, there has only been 1 perfect person.
You are correct, and let me tell you, it\'s not easy.

saintfan 09-26-2003 02:52 PM

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1-2 for sure, but NOT because of Brooks. The teacher needs to see you after class.

saintz08 09-26-2003 04:59 PM

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Lummox ,

Let\'s leave this one to Lummox for a moment .

I am the defensive coordinator for say the Colts hypothetically .

I am gonna put 9 men in the box , jamb your tight end , have the ends come in wide and contain and shoot a linebacker straight up the gut to apply pressure to get your quarterback and collape the pocket .

Now move the ball , lummox .

Your move ........

JOESAM2002 09-26-2003 05:31 PM

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Now B&B, how did I know it would be you? :D

BlackandBlue 09-26-2003 05:35 PM

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Oooooooo, I know I know I know!!!!!!!!!!
But since this was directed at lumm0x, I\'ll keep my mouth shut.

*cough* 99\' Rams *cough*

Quote:

Now B&B, how did I know it would be you?
It is said that I...I mean...\"The Lord works in mysterious ways\" ;)

[Edited on 26/9/2003 by BlackandBlue]


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