A win is a win is a win......
 

It sure as hell wasn't pretty but it was a win. I think we still have more problems than we can fix this year. I'd go into them but you guys already know what they are. At least 2 - 4 sounds a little better than 1 - 5. I just pray for things to get better. The Bears aren't the best team in the league so I'm not sure how much you can hang your hat on this win. But at least it's a win.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Yeah, I\'d always rather win ugly than lose pretty, but there\'s not a lot to be happy about on that one. Aaron Brooks looks bad, but more importantly, I don\'t know if there is a team in football with worse hands than ours. I\'m talking about every player. Aside from Pathon, our D-line coach has better hands than anyone on the field. Stallworth is down right bad. He\'s dropped way too many passes this year. He fumbled twice today. Thomas dropped one of the biggest gimme INTs I\'ve ever seen. Thomas and Ambrose are getting absolutely abused. Those two are BAD, and I mean BAD.

Let\'s hope that Atlanta proves to be more bad than we are next week. At least that will bring us to 3-4 before Carolina comes to town - who plays ugly but looks downright unbeatable. Man, this is going to be a long season. Let\'s hope they can eliminate their mistakes and focus on the fundamentals like tackling and catching the ball. If they can do just those two things then this team will get much better.

A win is a win is a win......
 

WhoDat --

Aaron Brooks made more good throws than bad ones. He was a little shaky in the fist half but he played very well in the second half. These receivers of ours are way overrated. If the receivers catch the balls that they are suppose to, then Aaron would have had a good day passing the ball. If I were him I would be very discourged when our receiveres continually drops the damn ball. Say what you want to about Brooks, but he is playing better than our receivers.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Lets just hope we can fix some of these errors, and get the offense going, while were playing poor teams.

A win is a win is a win......
 

I\'m not going to gripe about a win, because I\'m glad to have it.
But the Bears are a bad football team and we didn\'t dominate to make this win. But I don\'t think anyone on this board will argue that this isn\'t a team that we should have beaten anyway. Really, we should have pounded these guys. And I don\'t think this is a case of the Saints playing down to the competition as has been common in the Haslett era.

What is especially troubling to me is that our offense still hasn\'t gelled. I thought honestly that we could really hurt the Bears in the passing game, esp against Azumah, but it just isn\'t materializing. I was pleased to see us actually come away with 6 from our time in the red zone though.

This next bit isn\'t negativity, it\'s honest to gosh fear. How is it that it takes Duece 29 attempts to gain 116 yards against the Bears? Our line play is just not getting it done to run the ball. I\'m even more worried about Duece\'s health with that kind of workload. When we run about 50 plays and Duece is responsible for about 60% of the offense with just Ki-Jana in reserve, that makes me nervous.

So yes, I\'m happy for the win. But I still think the bandwagon is stuck in the ditch.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Well folks, I hate to be the one to say it, but No one and I repeat, No one on this team looks good to me. This bunch will have a time beating anyone this year. When you can\'t pound the Bears as pitiful as they are, you can\'t count on beating anyone. Say what you want to about Brooks, to me right now he looks terrible, the recievers look terrible, Deuce is Deuce he\'s about the only one I can\'t find much fault with. How these other guys can get away with calling themselves professional football players is beyond me. We can\'t block, we can\'t tackle and we can\'t catch. Just what the hell can this bunch do? Deuce could run if they could block. This is the biggest bunch of underachievers I personally, have ever seen. I really shouldn\'t even use the term underachievers in this statement because that would lead you to believe that at sometime they are achieving something.

Sorry guys, but I love this team and I just can\'t stand seeing them put up performances like this, win or lose. It\'s gotten so bad I really don\'t know who to blame. I guess maybe the coachs and players all together. To me none of them are producing what they should!

A win is a win is a win......
 

But.....

Look at all the potential ........

A win is a win is a win......
 

First let me say that the Bears are a bad team and we should have beaten them much worse. But, I wouldn\'t go as far as saying NO ONE is playing well. Furthermore, to say Brooks is playing terribly is INSANE !! While Brooks isn\'t exactly setting the world on fire, he is playing well enough for this team to win, which is more than I can say for the receivers. Why fans can\'t crticize and still keep things in perspective is beyond me. Why can\'t fans just take things for what they are? Consider this:


QB Aaron Brooks completed 14 of 29 passes in spite of numerous passes dropped by the receivers. Brooks also threw for 2 TD passes and NO interceptions. Now how can anyone cosider this TERRIBLE? I would agree that Brooks needs to be more consistant but to say he is playing terribly is just not be honest with yourself.

Here\'s another player that had a great game:
DE Charles Grant had five tackles, two sacks and two forced fumbles.

Here\'s another positive:
Saints offensive line did not allow a sack and helped the offense to 130 yards rushing.

This game isn\'t one that you can say the Saints finally lived up to their potential, but if you can\'t find more positives than Deuce, then you obviously aren\'t watching the game.


Now that I\'ve said all of that -- This team is making way too many mistakes and I\'m disappointed in the way they perfomed today as a TEAM. Each player\'s individual success is dependant on other players. The problem with this team is that there are some good individual perfomances week-to-week, but they don\'t play as a TEAM !!

[Edited on 12/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

A win is a win is a win......
 

Yep, and this was the Bears, for Christ\'s sake. Not exactly up for the Super Bowl are they?

A win is a win is a win......
 

The Bears are a bad team, No doubt about it. But, that\'s who we played TODAY!! In EVERY game there are positives and negitives and just because we played the Bears, there were more good perfomances than Deuce!! At least I saw more.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Sure there were other positives. No one got killed. No one got badly hurt. There were other positives, just not on the field. I really hoped that this team would step up and soundly beat the Bears, show us what this bunch is really made of. Well to me they did just that. They should have blown the doors off the Bears, we all know it and so do they.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Joe, I disagree. Deuce is playing great considering every D-coordinator in the league knows the key to beating the Saints is stopping him. I bet 90 of his yards today came after the first contact. He is playing very well. Grant looked good today when he was moved, and thus not double-teamed every play. Ruff and Rodgers are playing pretty well. Pathon is doing his job. Otherwise, we\'re poo.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Hey Billy... for once, I\'m with you man. Yeah, you\'ve got to be blind or dumb to think this team is playing well. But I do see progress. Winning is winning. We played well against the undefeated Carolina Panthers. We had a chance in that game. We played well enough to win today. Get rid of the mental mistakes and this team could beat some teams. I\'m realistic, and I know this team is not very good. I think Haslett is done. I think Brooks\' job is in danger when a new coach comes in. Still, it is not outside of the realm of possibility for us to be 5-4. 2-7 is possible too, but... Believe guys. Believe.

A win is a win is a win......
 

I do find some of this amuseing. I really do. But then again during the war with Iraq, I found Baghdad Bob amuseing too. I know you remember him. \" The Americans are not at the airport, they are nowhere to be found. We are defeating them at every move!\" AH yes those were the good old days.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Dat, its so damn easy to be negative with this team. Hell we\'ve got 36 years experience being losers so I could post all day long about how much this team sucks, who\'s over-rated, who\'s a bust, who should be fired, what we should have done, etc. But to tell you the truth, its old and a waste of my time and energy. I saw several positive things in the Chicago game.
We didn\'t play well and still won.
We didn\'t suffer any more devastating injuries.
The young defense puts another game under their belt.
The defense looks to be headed in the right direction.
The mistakes I saw were mostly mental, not from a lack of talent.
*Most bad teams are bad because they do not have the talent to compete with the majority of teams in this league. That does not apply to us.
The team played with some fire.
If this team eliminates the mental errors I think we can beat anybody in this league.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Gator --

Did you hear me say ANYWHERE that this team is playing GREAT? I don\'t think so. Do you actually read what I post, or do you just make things up so you can vent your frustrations on here? Either way, I really don\'t care what you think. You need to get off your \"Low Horse\" and see that while the Saints didn\'t play up to their potential yesterday that there were SOME POSITIVES. There were also plenty of mistakes yesterday, that I beleive are correctable. But Gator -- You have given up and that\'s your right. But don\'t come telling me I\'m crazy because I have not given up.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Whodat, just so you\'ll know. I didn\'t remember cutting down Deuce, of course at my age I really couldn\'t remember. So I went back and looked.

A win is a win is a win......
 

You are correct, a win is a win. I know this team is playing lousy football but I\'ll take the win! I know I\'m the most pessistic poster here as I picked the Saints to go 5-11 in the preaseason. Oh, how I want to be wrong !!! I went to Charlotte and watched the Saints lose to the Panthers, but something inside won\'t let me give up. call me brain dead but during the game I felt like the D had improved some. And against the Bears I found a bright spot in the Brooks whom I don\'t like. Just to give credit where credit is due, in the 4th quarter 3rd and long Brooks dropped back and as the pocket collapsed he stepped up into the pocket and delivered a 23 yard strike to Pathon at the 7 yard line to keep the drive alive and ultimately score. In past games in that circumstance Brooks had rushed and thrown off his back foot. And what can you say about Pathon in the midst of game after game of dropped balls by receivers Pathon has been the most consistant. And deuce has been steady and dependable. Indeed the Saints D may be showing signs of improving as they have given up only 2 TDs in the last 2 games. Special teams was a major factor in the Saints loss to the Panthers. A missed field goal and a 100 yard Kickoff return equals a 10 point margin.
Maybe i\'m just wishful thinking. At any rate I\'ll take another ugly win this week.
Enough babbling ! Have a good day !

A win is a win is a win......
 

The D looked good yesterday, but it seems like that\'s more because the Bears\' O-line and QB are terrible. Whenever the Saints play a decent QB who has decent protection, this defense is still going to be eaten alive. Witness McNair and Manning for example. Yesterday Venturi knew Stewart couldn\'t beat the blitz, so the defensive game plan was easy. I think the only games the Saints will win this year are against bad passing offenses, where they can load up the line of scrimmage, blitz, and not have to worry about getting beaten downfield on a long pass. As long as they have to worry about the passing attack, they are going to get run over with the rushing attack (for example, the Carolina game, where Delhomme had good protection and made just enough plays to force the Saints to defend the pass). Maybe when D. Howard gets back, things will improve, but in the meantime, I don\'t see the Saints beating any team with an average or better passing game.

As far as the offense goes, the line seemed to do a good job with pass protection, but like someone else said, the only yards McAllister got were on his own (superhuman) effort. That guy is a stud, but even he is not enough to sustain the whole offense.

Winning ugly is better than losing, but I still don\'t have a good feeling about the rest of the season. Eli Manning is looking like a real possibility here.

A win is a win is a win......
 

This was a big win, if nothing else for confidence! There were actually sparks of life from the team for the 1st time all year! Guys actually looked excited at times!! The Defense played well. Charles Grant, Derrick Rodgers, Orlando Ruff, Dale Carter. The crack on TV about Grady Jackson and Aaron Gibson looking like sumo wrestlers sizing each other up on a play was REALLY funny, and true!! Just had to throw that in there!! Maybe i\'m overly optimistic, but I think that this team can turn the season around IF they play to their capabilities!

A win is a win is a win......
 

Agreed. Losing is contagious... so is winning... sometimes... Maybe this will help this team start to believe. A good showing and another win against Atlanta next week and this team may just return to form. Of course, we could get blown out and that will be that for the \'03 season, but...

PS Joe - Sorry hombre. I kind of gravitated to this line \"No one and I repeat, No one on this team looks good to me.\" But you\'re right, you gave Deuce his props.

A win is a win is a win......
 

The Atlanta game should be entertaining.
2 teams back to the wall, playing hard to even try to compete in a playoff run.
Desperate teams, desperate actions, should make things interesting.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Amen, BMG.

If we can just beat Atlanta twice, I\'ll forgive any other losses at this point.

Any predictions for the game between the \'birds and the Rams tonight? I hear this Bulger kid is pretty good.

Anyone going to the Atlanta game (at Atlanta)? I\'m in Birmingham and was thinking I could pick up a cheap ticket the day of the game. The game was sold out before Saint Vick was injured.

A win is a win is a win......
 

I think they may be able to turn it around Gator. If our QB and receivers start playing well, and we can put up 25 points a game, we\'ll be fine. The D is getting better and getting people back. We\'ve got an outside chance.

A win is a win is a win......
 

I gotta agree with Gator here. This bunch needs to beat SOMEBODY. Not a team everyone knows they should beat. Then I might be somewhat ready to give credit.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Well guys, they\'ve got to start somewhere ya know?

A win is a win is a win......
 

Funny how this dropped pass thing keeps coming up like it is a first or has been twice as many as last year . Even though we have yet to see a scale or a stat on it .

So let\'s let Aaron Brooks Answer it for himself .

Following is from the Brooks pre Atlanta game Transcript :

Question to Brooks

Q: Have you suffered more drops this year than last year?

A: \"I don\'t want to get into it. We got great receivers. I don\'t think you guys accounted for all the drops we had last year. We had a lot of big plays and dominated a lot of teams with those big plays. It\'s something to be accounted for, so I know the receivers will bounce back from that. There\'s nothing I can do. I can only have the confidence in them, keep throwing the ball as much as I can and play my game and make sure I don\'t come out of my game.\"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simply put the offense has not given them a reason to respect them and defenses are playing them closer and keeping them from making plays .

A win is a win is a win......
 

Gator - no one is suggesting that we beat a good team last week. But we did win. And we can win again this weekend. And the next. Saintfan is right (Yikes, did I just say that?), we have to start somewhere. Atlanta is probably as bad right now as the Bears. Carolina, in my opinion, is overrated. They\'ll fall hard eventually. Tampa\'s not the team this year that they were last year. No one\'s saying that they aren\'t poo, but that doesn\'t mean you should ignore their real chances to turn this thing around. We\'re playing poorly right now, but that\'s not to say that we don\'t have the potential to play much better. That\'s going to be a gradual change. We\'re not going to come out one week and all of a sudden be playing like we were in the first 7 weeks last season. Baby step mi amigo. Baby steps.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Whodat, I think too many people are confusing bad play with bad team.
Most of the worst teams in the league are bad because they just don\'t have the talent yet that other teams have. Chicago will not be good until they get better players. Ditto Arizona.

The Saints are different. YES, they are playing bad right now, but they have more talent than a whole lot of teams with better records. Therein lies the realistic optimism that many of us have.

We have the personnel to turn this season around. The Pats started 1-4 during their SB year. It can be done because it has been done.

A win is a win is a win......
 

Here\'s my simple equation for this team. Bad play from good players = bad team. This team has more potential than almost any team in the NFL and does nothing with it. That\'s what kills me! Maybe the above is why we\'re 2-4 right now?

[Edited on 16/10/2003 by JOESAM2002]

A win is a win is a win......
 

I don\'t think anyone is happy with the record right now. But, that does\'t mean that they aren\'t going to get this thing corrected. Tweeky, is saying that because we have as much talent as what we do, that it\'s very possible things will start to happen for this Saints team. Of course, there are some that are just hell bent on writing this team off, that they see no hope at all. I think you guys call yourselfs \"realists\"? But, I call you quitters !! A realist knows that it could go either way. A quitter........Well............he quits!!!

[Edited on 16/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

A win is a win is a win......
 

I\'m a supporter of Haz, and I\'ll admit that, but the thing that gets me is this team under, say, Bill Parcells, would probably be undefeated right now. So, in my most humble opinion, Haz is the guy that has to turn this thing around. I don\'t know if he does it with words or by benching the next guy that drops a catchable ball or what, but HE has to do something. This team needs to rally around SOMEthing, and I don\'t know what that SOMEthing is, but in my opinion is the job of the Head Coach to provide them with that thing, or guide the team to it, whatever it may be.

A win is a win is a win......
 

This is the Twilight Zone. Seriously. Saintfan and I agree again. Jim Haslett is to blame. Period. His coaches are too. THe players are too. But Jim is first and foremost.

However, I completely understand what Joe is saying. This team should be better. It\'s infuriating to see this kind of talent squandered, and goes back to the basic question I asked in the preseason. How long do you wait until you make a change? We all know that the Saints have NEVER had a team this talented. We cannot afford to squander it. I\'m not saying that all hope is lost. However, two more losses and the season is done. That\'s 3 years in a row of some of the most talented Saints teams in its history and they do nothing with it? Unacceptible.

I can understand those who think all is lost. A lot of people bought into the optimism being peddled by the coaches, local media, and even members of this board. It\'s crushing to realize that was all unfounded. I feel you Joe. Just hang on man. They can win at Atlanta and they can beat the Panthers. 4-4 after 8 isn\'t where we wanted to be, but it will put \'em in the thick of the race.

A win is a win is a win......
 

To get me back in the race. All they have to do is win! Just like my signature says, Potential is nothing, performance is everything. That by the way is a quote from a coach doing very well with a new team that no one thought would be good at all this year. Bill Parcels.