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Truely amazing. After every loss the Saints bashers are out in full force immediately following the game. Yet, we win and they are no where to be found !! Thats all....

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Well Billy, I finally stepped up. See my second post under a win is a win is a win. I\'m fed up with the whole bunch. It\'s time they learned the basics of football. Haslett needs to hold up a football in a meeting and say \"This is a football.\" Begin there and they might have a chance.

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Haslett knows what a football is??!
How long?? Who told him?

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We are just allowing you some quality time Billy .

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And here\'s my last gripe about this game. This is directed to Mr. Haslett, I refuse to call him coach right now, Here\'s an idea for you. Everytime one of the players or coachs start to say a word that starts with the letter P, fine their butts $10,000.00 just in case they screw up and want to say professional! None of these guys, obviously, know what a professional football player or coach is.

[Edited on 12/10/2003 by JOESAM2002]

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Now JoeSam, I don\'t consider you a basher, but since you relpied to this post, I guess you do consider yourself a basher?

[Edited on 13/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

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Nope, Billy, I consider myself a realist! This bunch is bad. Plain and simple. I love this team but they are letting themselves down along with us, the fans.

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Don\'t expect but maybe 1 or 2 more wins for the rest of this season. The Bears looked aweful but what is really sad is that we look worse. Most of the Bear\'s problems stem from Stewart. We just have problems (multiple). The only offensive player worth a damn right now is Duece and Horn. Brooks did not have a good game. Yes his numbers probably look nice but he was not sharp and hasn\'t been all season. Now to his credit, our WR and TE can\'t seem to consistantly catch the ball. And to answer your question bout why no one is talking about this win . . . it\'s because if you watched the game you get this sinking feeling and realize this could be our last win of the season.

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I consider you a realist too Joe. This team is playing bad. I hope they start playing better.

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I have to agree with Seraph here. I hate to do it but I just don\'t see more than 1 or 2 more wins this season.

Billy, this ones just for you, so you\'ll know I\'m not your everyday basher.

I hope that I\'m wrong on this prediction. If I am I\'ll not only eat crow, I\'ll gladly ask for seconds!

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The day I become an \"optimist\" on this board is a sad sad day. You guys need to chill out. We played poorly, but we WON. That\'s good news. Furthermore, for the last two weeks, we HAVE NOT been severely outgunned in the talent column. Our mistakes are mental - lack of concentration - basics problems. Those SHOULD be easily correctable. Have the receivers run catching drills after practice. Run tackling drills.

I seriously think that if we had tackled better and caught the ball better today this could easily have been a giant blowout. I know, I know, if ifs were a fifth then we\'d all be drunk... still, Atlanta looks really bad too. Maybe we can pick up a win there. Two in a row, who knows? Maybe Carolina has a letdown game or we play up to potential for once. 4-4 IS POSSIBLE. Hell, with the split personality disorder that Tampa seems to have right now we might even be able to win that one.

Look, I\'m realistic. This is not a great team. But I am seeing progress. The defense is getting people back and with the exception of two or three drives a game, the last two games have been pretty solid on that side of the ball. If the offense can stop the dumb penalties and the receivers can catch the damn ball, we could be alright. C\'mon guys, you have to be happy with a win, especially right now. How about a little hope... 4-4. Believe it!

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Bad, Gator .

Billy there are not going to the PLAYOFFS! Rub you lucky rabbit\'s foot and stroke your Brooks jersey all you want next week they\'ll lose.

Never include the words , Brooks , rub, stroke and Billy all in one sentenance .

Bad gator .......

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Listen, BillyC, I know we\'ve had our problems, but facts are facts, unfortunately. This is not a good team. Good, possibly great talent, just no coaching and a lack of production at the qb position. D is still having problems and we just can\'t seem to get our intensity up for any games. I think the only thing that will salvage this ship is a coaching/qb change. That is the only thing that can help us at this point.

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Billy C, read the previous post. Have you ever played golf? When you are on the green and you putt the ball within 3\" of the cup, your opponent says, \"pick it up\". This is what is called a gimme. That is what the zebras and the Bears did Sunday -- they told the Saints to pick it up. If there was anything shining Sunday it was McAllister, except there was so much clutter you could barely see the glimmer. Get real Billy . . . they sucked !!!!!!

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DblBogey --

Here\'s something real for you buddy !! Your attitude sucks. Find you another team and move on !!

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Poor attitudes? On this board? Of COURSE not!

:P

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I don\'t think so -- I love the Saints and have since the beginning. I just hate what people have done to a great concept. By your last post you have proven to me that you are a dreamer in realist clothing. If you were not so infatuated with Smilin\' Aaron Brooks you could get some sembalance of reality in your otherwise dream world.

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I am a realist and in my realistic opinion -- Your attitude sucks !!

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BillyC,

You win, I might as well be debating this issue with a Stop Sign.

Jake Delhomme - Carolina 5 - 0
Aaron Brooks - N.O. 2 - 4

I rest my case, dreamer.
_________________________________________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupity and I am not sure about the former . . . Einstein

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You are just another Jake supporter that can\'t believe Brooks in still here and Delhomme is gone. You would think that with the terrific O-line and the great running game that Jake has that his QB rating would be higher!! I\'d suggest if you are a Saints fan that you forget about Delhomme and concentrate on something that is related to THIS Saints team!! Or better yet, go by a Delhomme jersey. You and 08 can split the cost.

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I\'m not a Jake supporter -- Drunken Billy Kilmer would be better than Smilin\' Aaron Brooks. Jude said that Brooks was an average NFL quarterback. I think he was being generous. The only reason that he is average is because there are not many great QBs playing today. Anybody, Bobby Herbert, whom I disliked more than Brooks, would be better than Brooks.

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DblBogey--

There comes a point in every conversation when it\'s time to end. Now is that time. Good Day !!

[Edited on 13/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

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Whoah. I don\'t want to get drug into this and I am not a professional sports analyst. I am merely a fan who likes to think he has a pretty balanced (and relatively informed) opinion about the team I have followed for so long.

I DO believe that Brooks is average, not good-not bad. I believe the Saints are a bit south of average, right now. I will continue watching and hoping for them to pull it together.

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I have to agree with you Billy. It is obvious that no one in the Saints decision-making process reads these posts anyway nor heeds them. Just a good, healthy way to vent. As has been said before -- Everyone is entitled to there opinion and for that I respect your right to your opinion. No maliciousness intended in our exchange. Enjoyed exploring the differences in our opinions.

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Jake Delhomme\'s QB rating this season = 71.8

Aaron Brooks\' QB rating this season = 80.4

Now I\'m not a stats guy as Whodat will gladly verify. I\'m not a stats guy because I believe the numbers don\'t tell the whole story, but when it comes right down to it the QB rating is supposed to be all the QB\'s stats rolled into one value right?

Jake Delhomme = 71.8
Aaron Brooks = 80.4

That, PLUS, Jake\'s receivers actually catch the damn ball! Go figure...

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Ok, not that this observation solves ALL our problems, but, did anyone else see Horn on the sideline, DURING the game, practicing catching the ball? Isn\'t that what they\'re supposed to be doing during practice? Isn\'t it just a LITTLE late when game time comes? And come to think of it, whatever is wrong with the receivers must be contagious because now our secondary can\'t hold on to the ball either. I say, just in the interest of contamination, we quarantine the whole team so the fans won\'t start dropping their beers because God knows that\'s the only thing keeping us going right now.

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\"I am a realist\" - Billy, c\'mon amigo. You\'re joking right? Throughout the preseason and early goings you\'ve been about as realistic as 08 has been optimistic. Sure, maybe you\'re a bit more on point now, but to quote Saintfan, \"I ain\'t buyin\' it\". I don\'t think anyone else is either.

Saintfan - didn\'t YOU and BILLY establish that QB rating meant nothing whatsoever? I can pull up quotes if you\'d like. I think TEAM stats were all that mattered to you. Here\'s one to keep in mind. Delhomme - 5 wins, 0 losses. Brooks - 2 wins, 4 losses. Are you going to tell me the Panthers are more talented than the Saints?

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Ack!
WhoDat\'s Logic crushes his opposition into powder.

WhoDat for GM!

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WhoDat -- Me believing this team would be better this year wasn\'t being realistic? While it may or may not prove to be true, it certainly was possible and I was hardly alone in that belief. Just like your raving reviews about the Bills this season. I believe that they got man handled 30-3 by the pathetic Jets yesterday. So, if I was unrealistic by about the Saints, I sure have company with you about your Bills prediction, RIGHT?

How about your bold statement about Jake Delhomme? Was that being realistic? Nope it wasn\'t. As a matter a fact is was extremly optimistic !! Realism and optimism is a fine line in the NFL.

I am an optimistic person. But, I think you can see how your realisim about the Bills and Delhomme looks like you were an big time optimist too. I can pull up the posts to show you where you were wrong, just like I MIGHT have been about the Saints. What\'s the difference????

[Edited on 13/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

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You\'re the numbers guy Whodat, not me, and I indicated that in my post. I\'m just puttin\' \'em up there for you to enjoy!

:P

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When this team starts playing real football, shows some heart and the coaches start calling plays with some guile and we see some crisp execution, then we can start to get excited. But getting pumped up over beating a loser. Come on. Yes a win is a win but really, do we scare any team in the league. At this point I\'m sorry we\'re losing firs pick in the draft. Right now we are like a Ferrari with 2 flat tires and only one spare.

BTS (still pessimistic) :yltype: :yltype:

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Once again, nothin\' against Jake, but some of you people are givin\' Delhomme WAY too much credit. ESPN did a segment on the panthers last night and they NEVER MENTIONED HIS NAME! Why? Because he\'s had very little to do with things in Carolina. C\'mon folks and open your eyes. That team is a running machine with a very good defense. Jake\'s not bad, but Jake\'s not the reason they\'re 5-0 no matter how you slice it.

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Jake Delhomme = Trent Dilfer

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Jake Delhomme might not be the second coming. There is NO DENYING that he has LEAD his team to victory. From the very moment he was first placed in charge of their ofense, EVERYTHING turned around. That is what a leader does for you.

Notice that the Panthers just beat Indy. Indy controlled us in every facet, including our high-powered offense. Stats are fine, but the fact is before Delhomme started QBing for the Panthers they were struggling. After he was put there, they appear unstoppable. That\'s a stat, though it shows up in only one column. The wins.

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Panthers-----5-0
Saints--------2-4

Does it really matter who the quarterback is? We\'re supposed to have the best running game in the NFC (see last years stats). As good as Deuce is, he can\'t do it alone.

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I LIKE Jake, but Stephen Davis is the man in Carolina. Don\'t take my word for it, ask any Panthers fan.

Tell ya what. Leave Jake in the lineup and take Stephen Davis out of it and ask yourself if they\'re 5-0. Jake Delhomme has attempted the fewest passes in the league by a long shot for a reason people. Wake up and smell the gumbo already.

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Having a running game doesn\'t neccessarily mean that you will have a high scoring offense. Points usually come out of the passing game and so far that hasn\'t happened. Deuce should set up the passing game, but I still say that McCarthy isn\'t taking advantage of the receivers we have. I think the reason no one can pin point the problem to this player or that player is because McCarthy isn\'t putting ANYONE in the best position to succeed. And that includes Deuce. How many times have you seen Deuce run for a long run this year? Is this Deuce\'s fault? Nope. It\'s McCarthy\'s fault becuase he is allowing 8-men to stay in the box, because he will not spread the field out. Deuce has earned every yard he\'s gotten the hard way.

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Ok, let me try this again. I\'m not argueing the fact that McCarthy sucks. Frankly, I think the whole coaching staff sucks right now. However, I am saying that even if you had Jesus, himself coaching right now, this bunch of underachievers would make even him look bad. These guys have no will or heart to win or even play like professionals.

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Joe -- I understood what you were saying. I don\'t think they don\'t have any heart. I think they don\'t have any confidence. These are the same players with the exact same HEARTS that we had on offense last year, that led the NFC in scoring. None of that has changed. What has changed is McCarthy\'s offensive scheme. I just have a hard time beleiving that the same players we had last year all of a sudden don\'t have any heart and that\'s the reason they are struggling!!

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Lest we forget, these are the same players that played the last four games last year. Before everyone has a stroke, I know that AB was injured and probably should not have been playing. However, he DID play and his passing was inaccurate (balls in the dirt-throwing way behind the receivers- sound familiar?) Until this time, we had all assumed that this erratic accuracy was the fault of the injury, as the AB we had seen earlier in the year did not seem to have that problem. Perhaps it would be more honest to say that we were more forgiving early in the year because we were winning.

Fast-foward to today. Passing still inaccurate=team still losing. Is AB still injured? Has his arm not recovered from the surgery? I don\'t think so. I believe that he is fully recovered and is playing just as he always did. The offense HAS changed.

I believe that we adopted a more west-coast style this year, which requires superior route-running and excellent accuracy, neither of which we appear to have. That is most definitely a coaching decision and a bad one. However, considering our repeated late-season collapses I can\'t blame them for wanting to establish something a little more reliable than depending on getting that big play. We led the league in big plays last year, and when they didn\'t come through - we lost.

If I am the coach, I MUST look for a way to make my offense move the ball and SCORE reliably. It seems we are having a lot of trouble getting there with our current coaching and players. We can\'t play ball control and grind it out because other teams don\'t respect our passing ability and our O-line is not up to snuff. We can\'t play west coast, because our receivers are not running perfect routes and our QB is not reliably accurate. That leaves us with the only apparent choice which is to air it out a lot and keep going for the big play. This may win us some games (on the days the ball bounces our way), but will lead to the late season collapses when the big plays dry up because the rust has finally worked itself off of the defenders.

Solution: Replace players.

This requires the coaching staff to decide on a route. Do we go West Coast? If so, AB has to go, probably Horn as well. Maybe Stallworth can be taught but his cutting ability is so poor, I am not sure he can ever run a good route. His strength is speed.

Should we go for the grind? If so, we MUST revamp the O-line. We need to start looking for beligerent, angry men (like Turley and not like Gandy), who want to attack the defense, not merely defend the QB.

Sounds simple? Yes, it does. But it takes a vision of what you want the team to be, and the strength and wisdom to make the vision come true. Can our coaches do that?

Solution: Replace the coaches.