A question for all the posters here
 

Is everyone in agreement that Kordell Stewart is a below avg qb even though the Bears have virtually no wr's to speak of?

A question for all the posters here
 

I would have to agree with that assessment of Stewart , not the receiving core .

Booker is a talented receiver , injured but talented .

Liked the litttle stat that Stewart never pitches on the option , he has become a rather readable quarterback .

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Very well, I would agree with that assessment. But you will agree that the Bears don\'t have NEAR the wr corp that we do. That being said, I think you will find this VERY interesting. Here are Kordells and Aarons stats from yesterday.

Kordell-10-21-152 yards
Brooks-14-29-153 yards

Umm, I\'m not mathmatical genuis, but what this tells me is that these are two BAD quarterbacks. Not to mention, Duece had 116 yards, which SHOULD HAVE opened up the passing game. Yes, Brooks had 2 tds, but really, is that enough to overshadow his overall poor performance? I don\'t think so.

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Shortsighted as usual...

How many dropped passes were there. Sure, there were some poor throws. In fact, in every game I wateched yesterday I saw QB\'s make some poor throws. None of the QB\'s I watched yesterday were perfect. Not a single one of \'em.

Now, if you add up the balls that \"should\" have been caught what do Brooks\' numbers look like? Hall of Fame numbers? Probably not, but certainly better than 14-29-153 yards.

The rest of ya\'ll are only beginning to see what I\'ve been screaming about since mid-season last year, and that\'s dropped passes. That Brooks has a rating of 80.4 this year in my humble opinion is amazing in and of itself all things considered.

Now, \"08\", because he has an agenda, will counter by saying Brooks throws balls behind his receivers and too high, and yes, he has done that (someting his boy Delhomme, while consistantly throwing off his back foot, does game after game after game), but I flip through the other games and I see guys diving for balls or otherwise making catches when the ball doesn\'t hit \'em square in the hands...our receivers don\'t do that. I saw Peyton manning lead Marvin Harrison perfectly yesterday...right into a DB who NAILED him at the one. \"08\" and you other biased individulas will credit him with an \"on target\" throw, but Brooks makes that throw and ya\'ll use it as an excuse for our overrated receivers saying they\'re scared of gettin\' hit. It\'s silly, and it\'s transparant that you guys have an agenda...and it\'s funny, and I laugh heartily at the persistant and rather weak attempts at blaming Brooks for the Saints\' problems.

As I have said before and continue to believe, it\'s a damn good thing some of you aren\'t in charge.

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Alright Saintsfan ,

I will let you get this one . Have you noticed where Cromwell and previously Sloan dropped these passes ???

Let\'s give some credit to both of these tight ends , they were previously Pro Bowl caliber players before coming to New Orleans .Then suddenly they suffer from the droppsies .

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You\'re actually brave enough to indicate that those two fella\'s aren\'t catching passes they should catch because of Aaron Brooks? That\'s not brave, that\'s just plain stupid. Man you are amazing...and old...and tired, just like your anti-Brooks agenda. Old and Tired... Jesus H Christ man. Do you realize you\'ll make an excuse for ANYONE who\'s name isn\'t Brooks? I realize it, and others do too.

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I thought this was cool. CONWELL explained his drop, didn\'t make excuses, but it shed some light on why he may have dropped it.

As he was sliding over to his area, the DE for the Bears was between he and Brooks. He didn\'t see the ball until it was about 2 feet from him. We see it as a bone-headed drop, but after his explanation its a bit more tolerable. Not much, but somewhat. At least now I don\'t want to string him up anymore.

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Yeah Saintsfan, it\'s a good think we\'re not in charge. Obviously, a staff that hasn\'t been to the playoffs going on 3 years in a row, knows EXACTLY what they are doing! Yeah, we are all washed up about Brooks. That\'s why a guy like Gil Bradnt said that Brooks should be benched in favor of Bouman. God knows you know more than a guy who was ACTUALLY employeed in personal decision making in the NFL. Yep, we are all wrong guys, Saintsfan has all the answers and Brooks is fantastic.

[Edited on 13/10/2003 by TheOriginalSwampdog]

A question for all the posters here
 

Rather than posting rhetoric try answering the question. Wanna know why you can\'t? Because you didn\'t bother to count up the dropped passes. Do you have a clue at all or do you just wander around from board to board typing ignorance?

Answer the question and we\'ll go from there, ok?

A question for all the posters here
 

Brooks needs to improve in some areas. Mainly he needs to play more consistant. But, he is playing better than our receivers. I would bench everyone of our receivers before I would Brooks and that includes Joe Horn. Now, I didn\'t say I would bench ANY of our receivers. I said I would bench them before benching Brooks. Fans want to overlook the importance of dropped passes, but Joe Montana\'s numbers would suffer with all the dropped passes by our receivers.

Look around at the QB\'s in this league and see that while Brooks isn\'t perfect that there are a bunch of QB\'s that are playing much worse. Would you guys bench these QB\'s too?

Aaron Brooks NO 6 185 30.8 108 58.4 1156 183.0 42 7 4 9 58 80.4
Drew Bledsoe BUF 6 196 32.7 116 59.2 1351 201.7 54 5 4 19 141 80.1
Rich Gannon OAK 6 206 34.3 115 55.8 1216 190.7 46 6 3 14 72 76.8
Quincy Carter DAL 5 151 30.2 85 56.3 1177 222.4 54 4 5 11 65 76.5
Tommy Maddox PIT 6 211 35.2 131 62.1 1486 227.7 50 5 8 20 120 75.3
Jay Fiedler MIA 5 132 26.4 75 56.8 885 169.0 57 5 5 7 40 74.2
Drew Brees SD 5 191 38.2 111 58.1 1137 214.2 46 7 7 8 66 72.3
Tom Brady NE 6 187 31.2 109 58.3 1179 177.0 58 6 7 15 117 72.0
Jake Delhomme CAR 5 113 22.6 65 57.5 691 130.4 52 5 5 6 39 71.8
David Carr HOU 5 172 34.4 99 57.6 1251 240.6 78 5 8 8 48 70.7
Jeff Blake ARI 6 172 28.7 101 58.7 1142 182.3 71 7 9 8 48 70.4
Doug Johnson ATL 5 145 29.0 87 60.0 1024 188.2 63 6 9 14 83 69.4
Steve Beuerlein DEN 3 44 14.7 24 54.5 270 83.3 38 2 2 4 20 69.3
Jeff Garcia SF 6 182 30.3 101 55.5 1117 178.8 30 6 7 11 44 68.9
Kerry Collins NYG 5 218 43.6 125 57.3 1333 258.4 77 6 9 8 41 67.3
Kelly Holcomb CLE 3 104 34.7 62 59.6 551 165.7 27 3 5 6 54 63.4
Donovan McNabb PHI 5 167 33.4 82 49.1 790 135.2 52 2 5 19 114 54.2

A question for all the posters here
 

I thought Oliver Cromwell was dead. He looks great for his age...

A question for all the posters here
 

Yah, but Saintz08 doesn\'t. He\'s old and tired!

:P

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I\'m really tired of the defense of Brooks consisting of posting up stats. Stats are deceiving in this case. If you watched the game and say that Brooks had a good day, then you are just plain lying. Yes he had some dropped balls, but he also had some really badly thrown balls that should have been picked.

Examples
The pass to Pathon that they called pass interferance on Tillman. There wasn\'t any pass interference. Tillman was going for the ball and there was hardly any contact if any. That ball was thrown to the outside of pathon when he was positioned on the inside of Tillman.

Number 2 - Deep pass to Horn in the endzone. Thrown short. Horn had to stop and comeback to the ball. Also had 2 defenders right there.

Also the Bears defense had a rookie starting CB (and not a 1st rounder either) plus a few more rookie starters (I think a couple of LB\'s)

Also that Boneheaded play at the end of the half to T. Smith 5 yards short of the goaline and no timeouts. Inexcusably STUPID play. Don\'t even try to defend because you will just sound like a moron.

Did Brooks play horrible? No. Not this game. Still he didn\'t play very good either. He was playing against a banged up defense with a suspect secondary. Also the fact that Duece has been putting 100 yard games all but one game (i think) is something to look at. You are getting very good production out of the running game which opens up the passing game and you are going to show me those numbers to tell me how good Brooks is. Please if you watched the game you know he didn\'t play that well. Post the numbers all you want.

One positive: I actually caught Brooks showing some emotion in the huddle. I\'ll be damned we have waited 3 years for him to showcase so type of emotion or even leadership skills. It was a very minute occasion but still worth stating. Perhaps by season\'s end he may stop smiling after tossing an interception.

ya never know?

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I honestly think that if Stewart and Brooks had traded jersies before the game the score would have been the same. AB played well enuff to win against the Bears, he pulled his weight, he played...well...as good as Stewart.
But we`ve seen Brooks play better football. We`ve seen him drive the secondaries crazy when he tucked the ball and ran like a halfback (and not slide into second base 3 yds short of the first down). We should have handed Chicago a much greater defeat. And if Brooks had played like the Brooks of old we would have. Brooks is not a pocket QB. Thats not his gig. And I think thats some of the reason why we can`t score in the first half. Brooks seems like he has just lost his edge, his groove. He made a name for himself being a scrabbling QB, he needs to go back to the type of game that made him our starter. If not, we`re just as well off with Bouman or J.T., Brooks is not doing anything especially good, at times he`s just \"good enuff.\"

**** Haz didn`t even mention the name Brooks at the monday press conference. How do you lead your team to victory and not even get your name mentioned by your coach? (maybe because he just didn`t do anything especially good, just good enuff.)

Thats my take...now tell me how stupid I am please.

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I understand you guys want to blame Brooks on the lack of production in the passing game, but you should be looking at McCarthy and not Brooks. This is not the same offense we have been running the last couple of years. Really, it\'s not!! It\'s not hard to see either.

Last year there were multiple receiver sets that spread the defense out and it created favorable matchups with our speedy wide receivers. It also cleared out the 8th man in the box and once Deuce got in the secondary, he ran for long runs. This year McCarthy isn\'t doing that and it\'s hurting not only the production in the passing game, but it\'s hurting the running game too. I know Deuce still has nice numbers at the end of the game, but those are hard earned yards.

McCarthy\'s scheme isn\'t giving Brooks the matchups he needs to put up the kind of numbers we expect. Most of the time he only has 2 receivers out there and there isn\'t a lot of seperation. We are really playing an offense simular to what Carolina is running. The only problem is that our offensive line isn\'t as dominate as the Panthers. Deuce isn\'t as productive as Stephen Davis and it\'s not Deuces fault either. Deuce isn\'t that kind of back, yet McCarthy plays him like he was.

There is a reason that no one looks the same on offense this year and it\'s not that all the players on offense have changed since last year. It\'s because McCarthy changed the offense. So , before you starting pointing fingers at Brooks, you might need to question the scheme first. I don\'t see any other QB stepping in and having much more success than Brooks right now.

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I think that most people can agree that McCarthy is also to blame. However there are many underlying problems with the whole O. That goes for the WR & TE\'s dropping passes, the O-line that can\'t stop a thing, and AB just not living up to his potential. AB can be a great QB, and he showed us that a couple of years ago. But I don\'t understand why he thinks being called a scrambling QB is such a bad thing. He wants to be a pocket passer, and McCarthy has appeased him and formed the O around that type of QB. The big problem is that he isn\'t that type of player. Who would you rather have, the QB that took over for Blake back in 2000, or the QB we have now?
(and please don\'t pull out the stat\'s to make this comparison Billy, b/c we all know that 63.47267% of stats are made up ;) )

A question for all the posters here
 

canucksaint --

I\'m not stating that McCarthy is ALSO to blame. I\'m saying he is MOST to blame. We can blame some bad throws and some dropped passes and if those mistakes weren\'t made, the offense would have looked better. However, the offense still wouldn\'t be as productive as last year, because it\'s not playing to the strengths of the personel.

Sure, I would like to see Brooks run more and I think it would give defenses another worry. But, it isn\'t going to reproduce the 27 TD passes and the 3,400 yards of passing we had last year. Give me the spread formations from last year over the formations we have out there this year and I think it will open everything up.

Do you guys even pay attention to what formations are out there on Sundays? It\'s not hard to see at all. It\'s just not working and it isn\'t going to work. This offense just didn\'t get that bad from last year. McCarthy just changed the offense from last year.

A question for all the posters here
 

Sure, blame McCarthy Billy. Sure, blame Brooks Gator.

Why is it so hard for people to acknowledge what happens on the freakin\' field? Joe Horn gets pissy cause he got overthrown...then proceeds to drop a touchdown pass that dropped righ into his hands. Oh, then, next week (last week) he dropped another one. Joe\'s not the only one either. Boo Williams is the best receiving TE we\'ve got on the Roster. Donte\' can\'t catch a cold, and if he DID catch one he\'d drop it. The only guy Brooks can have any faith in is Pathon for heaven\'s sake.

I\'m not the only one who sees this ya\'ll. The team has acknowledged it too...finally. It\'s a HUGE problem. I can\'t be 100% on it, but I don\'t think our receivers are running very good routes either. I\'m not saying Brooks shouldn\'t shoulder his share of the blame for the team\'s performance up to now, and sure, he\'s thrown some errant passes, but when the Offensive line stops killin\' drives with pentalties and the receivers start catching balls THEN we can focus more on Brooks. He is not now nor has he been the problem with this team, and anyone who says he is just isn\'t watching the game objectively...PERIOD.

Gator has lost all faith. Fine
Saintz08 never had any. Newsflash
FWtex just doesn\'t like Brooks. No brainer
Whodat is trying to come around. I\'m cautiosly optimistic.
Judethaddeusis on the fence but drunk on \"08\" cool-aid.
SaintScott25 is a realist...or is he? Time will tell.
Seraph33 sees on side of a story and only one. I bet he\'s not a lawyer.
Joesam...well, it seems the team has hurt his feelings. He\'ll be OK.


Get off the Brooks bashing bandwagon and stop drinkin\' the \"08\" cool-aid. Jake Delhomme is gone and he\'s not coming back and he\'s not playing that well anyway. C\'mon people, I, yes I, could stand back there and hand the ball to Stephen Davis 40 times a game. Get real and open your eyes. Jake has attempted 113 passes which happens to be the fewest in the NFC. He is NOT the reason for the Panthers Success.

Brooks is the 5th rated passer in the NFL
Brooks is 7th in yards (even with all the damn drops)
McAllister is the 9th rated RB in spite of our O-Line and our Coordinator. Amazing

On a final note. Isn\'t it funny that 08 makes excuses for players that doen\'t even play. He props \'em up and touts them as if he is on the Saints payroll, yet he has NEVER acknowledged Aaron Brooks has done anything good on the field. The man has an agenda people. See it. Recognize it. Don\'t buy into it. He\'s old and tired and fails to see the forest for the trees. Personally I think he\'s a closet Panthers fan. He would rather see Brooks fail than to see the team succeed. I say let the Panthers have his old butt.

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I have to disagree with you on that one Billy. I would say that McCarty and Brooks are equals. I think that the formations are horrible, and we just can\'t get the job done because of the offensive scheme. However I think that this scheme was put in place because AB didn\'t like being called a running QB. He wanted to be known as a pocket passer. So the coaches appease him. And this is what happens. Maybe it is more McCarthy\'s fault for listening to AB and appeasing him. But maybe it\'s AB\'s fault for wanting to be something that he ain\'t. One of the biggest problems is the mentality on the sidelines. The coaches all want to appease AB, who can\'t preform like he used to becuase he want\'s to be something he can\'t be. The WR\'s want the QB of old, and can\'t catch anything from the new AB, and the O line can\'t stop a thing. Where is the HC to solve these problems? Isn\'t that what they should be doing?

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saintfan --

There are mistakes by everyone on the offense, but is still doesn\'t change the FACT that McCarthy isn\'t spreading the field like he did last year. Even if the receivers caught every pass this year, they still wouldn\'t be as productive as last year. Sure, they would look a hell of a lot better, but when you only have 2 receivers out on the field it sure limits your options.

I can recognize the dropped passes and the everything else that is going wrong with the offense. I can also recognize that McCarthy has 2 and 3 tightends on the field much more this year. I can also recognize that he is insistant on setting up the pass by pounding Deuce up the middle on 1st and 2nd down much more than he was last year.

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I\'m pretty unbiased, because of how I feel for this team, my deepest wish is to eliminate Brooks as part of the problem- however, I can\'t do that. Now, he\'s no where near the biggest problem we have, but based on his intangible performance on the field, nobody in their right mind can rule him out completely...PERIOD.

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I agree wtih ya Billy. My thing is there\'s just no execution. It doesn\'t seem to matter what the play is. We just don\'t execute. I\'m not happy with the plays he\'s calling either and I agree that we should spread things out a bit but damnit man our execution sucks pond water right now! LOL

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I agree. Because until this thing is fixed you can\'t eliminate anyone in the passing game. I still blame McCarthy the most though. Brooks and all the receivers haven\'t played like they did last year. When McCarthy has a totally different approach this year and it isn\'t successful, then I have to ask myself why he is doing it. Do you think Bill Parcels could make this offense go with the same players we have on offense now????

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I agree 100%. Who really knows whether or not Brooks can become a great QB under this staff. This is the very first thing that needs to be purged.
If Parcells had this offense under his wing, it would be one hell of a well-oiled machine. But Parcells also gets his players ready to play. They are scared of him. They know that he is one of the few head coaches that can come into a program, bench whoever he wants, and has the clout to get away with it. He takes ZERO BS from his players. And he has ZERO tolerance for mental errors (turnovers, penalties, etc.)

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Read the entore post. I\'m not saying his play is perfect, but you can\'t think that replacing Brooks (which is a common thread on this board) is the answer. His play doesn\'t warrant it. Perhaps you can define \"his intangible performance on the field\" for me. Read the WHOLE post. Watch the WHOLE game.

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Yes Billy. After what I\'ve seen Bill do here in Dallas this year I believe he could do just about anything. I really do.

A question for all the posters here
 

Saintfan—

I read the whole post. I watch as many of the games as I can. You seemed a little contradictory in your wording, even though your clear intent was not to be. Since you are from Dallas, you’ll appreciate this next statement- Leave me the hell alone :P I was at Carson’s until 2:00, and was up another two hours after that. So I’m working on two hours sleep and I am physically exhausted.

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I have a great idea. Let\'s call a team meeting, with players, coachs, towel boys, trainers and all. Let an unbiased person walk into the center of this meeting holding a sign. On that sign it should read:

\"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!\"

I bet there wouldn\'t be much use for rocks.

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No one wants to blame Brooks or anynone for anything, we just want to win. Stats help me dominate the fantasy world. In the stats category, the only one that means a thing is the won/loss column. Do whatever it takes to win. It really does not matter how well everyone else is doing, I care about one team. If it can be ficed we need to do that.

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I have one question for you guys. Who was MOST responsible for the Saints success last season (on offense)?

This is a simple question with, in my opinion, telling ramifications. I think Deuce, McCarthy, the receivers, and then Brooks, in that order, contributed most to the teams great play last season.

Thus, if you want to find out what is wrong with the offense this season, look at those contributors in order. Deuce is still a stud, no change there. McCarthy... A HA! All of a sudden this guy can\'t trick a peewee league team with his play calling. Problem 1. Next, the receivers... A HA! Put 15 pounds of stick-em on these guys hands and they\'re still dropping passes. Problem 2. Finally, Brooks.

Let\'s think about Brooks a little. I will be the first to admit that my biggest problem with him last season was his inefficiency and bone-headed mistakes. Sorry \"bashers\", he has NOT made a lot of blatant mistakes this season. He is also more efficent. Score one for Brooks.

HOWEVER, the things that the \"lovers\" said he did best - throw for lots of yards and TDs - have stopped. Is this Brooks\' fault? Yes. Is this McCarthy\'s fault? Yes. Is this the receivers faults? Yes.

Bottom line to me guys - I didn\'t credit Brooks much last season for our successes. Right now, I don\'t credit him much for our failures. He\'s not playing great football. I don\'t know if he\'s playing good football, but he certainly isn\'t playing bad football either. Right now, he\'s average. The receivers ARE hurting his stats right now, but that\'s not to say he hasn\'t thrown some in the dirt or made some bad reads.

Brooks is average - not worth the $36 million we\'re paying. But this team has had much worse. Can we please talk about something else? Something MORE important to helping this team right the ship? Playcalling? Oooh, oooh, I know. Let\'s talk about how they still haven\'t run A MIDDLE F-CKING WEDGE ALL SEASON!!! FIRE AL EVEREST!!!! Now he needs to go. Why have the special teams turned to crap? Aren\'t we supposed to be DEEPER? Shouldn\'t that translate into better special teams play?



PS - Saintfan... did you see that? Gimme props hombre. That was straight up on Brooks. ;)

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Just when you think you know someone !! You have my respect WhoDat. Props to you. I have to admit I was wrong and I was sure WhoDat was a Brooks basher !!

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Careful Billy... I might have to add to my signature with posts like that!!! LOL.

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Ok, so where the hell did this Lovefest come from? Next thing i\'ll read is 08 chimeing in on how great AB is playing. You guys take the cake. Where are the choruses of kumbaya? Well if you guys will excuse me I think i\'ll go out in my yard and light a candle for us all.

P.S. Honestly it is pretty funny. LOL :P

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Joesam, you won\'t hear anything of the sort form 08...can\'t teach an old dog new tricks, and he\'s an old dog with an agenda...

...as for Whodat...well, after I picked myself up from the floor I read his post for a second time. He\'s being honest with himself and he\'s watching the WHOLE game and the entire team, and he\'s not blinded by those Delhomme goggles that prevent 08 from making an accurate assesment of our QB. Furthermore it appears he\'s finally goten off the \"08\" cool-aid. Whodat must be a young dog! :P

It doesn\'t happen often Whodat, but I agree with the general idea of your post. Brooks has made some head scratching throws this year, but all in all, if our guys are catching the ones they should catch we\'re in much better shape.

Sometimes teams get in a funk. Hopefully they\'ll come out of it collectively and get a streak goin this Sunday against the Falcons. Vick or not, it\'s always a dogfight (apologies to saintz08) with those guys tho. A win against the dirtybirds weighs more heavily than a win against Chicago regardless of the records.

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I think it was a state of mind. Before the Bye Week I don\'t think they thought they could be beat. But something seemed to have happened during the Bye Week. Maybe it was Hazhadit giving them the week off for good behavior. That would have been a good week in my mind that they should have spent the basics all over again heading into the last of the season. But we have what we have a bunch of Monday Morning Coach wannabes that would not last 2 minutes on a NFL team in any capacity. So we continue to be old snorting farts who, each in his own way love the Saints, vent our frustrations and jubilations with others of the same cloth and differing opinions. This would be a sad place if we all thought the same, wouldn\'t it?

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kumbaya my lord, kumbaya! LMAO. That one\'s for Joe.

\"It doesn\'t happen often Whodat, but I agree with the general idea of your post. Brooks has made some head scratching throws this year, but all in all, if our guys are catching the ones they should catch we\'re in much better shape.\"

Tru Dat Saintfan. Now you see? We can all just get along. Kumbaya! :)

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Satan just called, said hell is cold as ****.

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Nice BnB. Nice.

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Deuce , Horn , Brooks, McCarthy.....All of this love and rekindling of relationships is making me feel uneasy.

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All this love is starting to remind me of Peyton Place. Not Peyton\'s PLace for all you youngsters. Maybe we could make a TV show out of it? Nahhhhh! Been done before. :P