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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Joe -- I probably should respond to your accusations but in fear that it will set off a \"board war\" I will not comment ........ Gator -- Keep posting. At some point everyone will stop paying so much attention to ...

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Old 10-23-2003, 06:36 AM   #41
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Joe -- I probably should respond to your accusations but in fear that it will set off a \"board war\" I will not comment ........


Gator -- Keep posting. At some point everyone will stop paying so much attention to my comments and jump on you...

WhoDat -- Will I be gettting a bill in the mail for the legal and therapy sessions?? :P

[Edited on 23/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
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Old 10-23-2003, 08:47 AM   #42
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I sent it yesterday.
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Old 10-23-2003, 09:01 AM   #43
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I guess all those team that got blown out in the Super Bowl quit too huh??
Absolutely, although I could have worded my original statement better. I think the word \"quit\" is rather broad generalization. Technically, for a player to quit in all intents of the word, he would go sit and remain on the sidelines for the remainder of the game. I think that some people associate the term \"quit\" with \"apathy\". I think that you can put players in a situation where they grow apathetic towards the outcome of a game because of what is going on around them, whatever the case may be. Could be that little voice inside their heads making references as to how their teammates look as if they have \"quit\", so why the hell are you still trying. This was just an example. It doesn\'t mean that they don\'t want to win, but it is human nature to be complacent.

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Old 10-23-2003, 09:10 AM   #44
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While it seems this thread is a project comprised of only four members, I can\'t resist adding my outside perspective.

Over the past year? that Billy has been a member I have noticed changes in his personality, or whatever personality you can gain from reading typed material. When he first entered this board, he flat out berated opinions and seemed to thrive on \"smacking\" with other members. He gets warned for this...he tones it down. He resorts to posting only football related material and expressing his opinion. His opinion gets called out, and he attempts to defend his opinion with stats, web links, quotes, etc. He enters into debates with members that defend the extreme of Billy\'s opinion. At times it resorts back to some smack. Again, he\'s asked to tone his passion and he does.

In my personal experiences debating with Billy, he has been very civil and although disagreeing with my position at times, uses only evidence to support his, and he did it without name calling or telling me I\'m wrong. It might be a single perception, but I have only noticed him get his feathers ruffled when someone lights the fire. By this I mean when someone adds a derogatory remark, states his oponion is wrong by use of a creative analogy, or flat out fails to defend a very extreme statement. I\'m sure many members can attest that they have had normal conversations with Billy. I can clearly see that yes, Billy does act crass intentionally with certain members. And quite often, yes, it is another member that does just what you claim Billy does....stating his opinion is wrong and making a insulting comment along with it. Because Billy\'s post volume is what it is, he of course will cite many more examples than other members, but few can claim to be innocent of this practice.

Finally my point. Those that Billy responds to in that manner have earned that treatment at some point because they have either initiated it or practiced it on him. I\'m not trying to state or even believe that he is some self-imposed defender of this board, but in reading posts on this board for as long as I have, it is not clear to me that he is doing anything other than he claims to be. Treating others like they treat him.

I guess it comes down to who wants to be the bigger person and start the ball rolling by ignoring insulting remarks and staying away from confrontations and sidestep to a new thread. It will then become clear who uses these practices, because right now Billy can get into it with anyone and the limelight goes to him and shadows the 5 or 6 others that do the same thing, but without so much notice.
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Old 10-23-2003, 09:41 AM   #45
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I agree with you Lumm. However, I will stand by what I said and stay out of it as long as I am allowed that choice. No one, including me is perfect. We all make mistakes. I can live with that. I hope others can too. Fans being what they are, we\'ll never agree on anything to any degree. I guess it\'s kinda like he said she said. It always takes two.
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Old 10-23-2003, 10:12 AM   #46
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Geeez.....

First of all, thanks LummOx.

Sencond -- I guess I respect some members more than others ( tweeky, WhoDat, B&B, clone, smitty, saintfan, rusta, LummOx, and even 08 and I know I\'m leaving some out-sorry) but mainly because no matter what they say, they can support their opinions with something that makes sense. They also don\'t go to extremes very often. (except 08) I disagree with these guys all the time and, like I said, they support their opinions with something logical. It\'s easy to debate these guys because I can follow their thought process.

Now, we\'ve got some folks who make \"extreme statements\" that make no sense to ME and I call them on it. Most of the time they come back with something that makes LESS sense than the original statement they made. So they get frustrated because they can\'t come up with ANYTHING to support their arguement with other than telling me I\'m blind because I don\'t agree. I probably should let it drop, but sometimes these debates take on a life of their own. I think if anyone is going to make \"extreme statements\" they should be prepared to back it up with SOMETHING. But, again I should let some of these drop way before I do.....

Last thing -- I\'m passionate about football and especially about the SAINTS. It\'s more to me than just a \"game\". I do get my feathers ruffled by folks who constantly bash this team. I don\'t care too much for these folks and while everyone has the right to say what you want, I feel like I have the right to say what I think about the bashing you do to a team that I love.
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:00 AM   #47
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Gator --

You know we have gone to war together and against one another. I always enjoy reading your posts. I know we probably both get pissed at times but I have no doubt that we both take it for what it is. You have that \"special\" little way of getting your point across and that\'s fine with me. I do the samething. Now, we are different in a lot of ways but I don\'t think either one of us get\'s our feelings hurt in this little \"board wars.\"

What I\'m saying is I respect your opinions and I just forgot to include you on my list. MY BAD -- But I still don\'t like ya -- :P J/K
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:39 AM   #48
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hello all im a new here. great site. whats with this gator guy. doesnt he know the gators suck. go tigers! really this guy needs serious help.
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:42 AM   #49
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Gator --

First of all -- I don\'t have to be right or don\'t even need to be right. What I do is state my beliefs and question others on there beliefs. I tell people they are wrong when I think they are wrong. People tell me I\'m wrong. That\'s great. I\'ll do my best to back up why I think I\'m not wrong.

As far as me not admitting I\'m wrong. You need to do your homework before you go making that statement. I have admitted I was wrong several times, which is more than I can say for some folks.

Look Gator -- My belief that the bags heads are not good fans is my belief and I\'m not alone in believing that. Just because this upsets you or you don\'t agree with it does not make you right. It might upset you that I have the nerve to make such a statement, but it doesn\'t make you right. Now, you can feel just the opposite and we can disagree. This is one of these things that neither one of us can prove we are right or wrong, becuase it\'s just a personal belief on both of our parts.

And Gator -- Did you just say I was \"flat out wrong\" for expressing my opinion that Bag Heads are classless. Did you not tell me yesterday that no one\'s opinon can be wrong. You need to practice what ya preach my man !!

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Old 10-24-2003, 01:07 AM   #50
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Gator -- I understand and I\'m fully prepared to be called out on this issue. The only thing I\'m insulting is the way they act as FANS not as individuals. I think when someone puts on a \"Bag of Shame\" they are INSULTING the Saints players and they better damn well be prepared to tell me why they are wearing that bag this early in the sesaon.

Now, it\'s not like I\'m accusing them of killing little babies. I\'m just questioning why they are wearing a bag. To me, how much money someone spends at a game is irrelevent. Does the guy that has box seats have more or a right than the guy in the nose bleed section. Or does the guy watching on TV have less authority to bash. I can\'t stop and wouldn\'t try to stop someone from wearing a bag. But, you better beleive I will express my opinion on it.

[Edited on 24/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
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