An exercise in opinions

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-22-2003, 03:43 PM

OK I\'m gonna take that as you just don\'t get it.

WHODAT,

Do you understand what I\'m getting at? There are no absolutes and opinons are never wrong or right because they are relative and always changing.

I leave you to the Moron if you answer me.

I\'m not gonna call you any names gator. Everything is not always changing my friend. Take electrisity for example. It always flows from negitive to positive. Always has and alway will. Valence electrons are excited by Voltage (pressure applied by difference of potential) and and flow from negitively charged atoms to positively charged atoms. People used to think electrisity flowed from positive to negitive. But it don\'t and never will. Their opinion was WRONG>

[Edited on 22/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-22-2003, 03:46 PM

Agreed.

WhoDat · 10-22-2003, 03:55 PM

Ok, good. So I also assume that you would agree that there is a possibility that at some point during the next billion years or so there is the distinct possibility that we may discover the undeniable truth about when life is created. Whether we discover it by a sign from God or a medical proof, is irrelevant. There is the possibility that we show one way or the other when a life is created and it will be undeniable. Just like gravity is undeniable, or to use your example, the flow of electricity. We agree that this can be proven some day, even if we don\'t know it now right?

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-22-2003, 04:00 PM

Gator -- I caught my mistake and went back and changed it. MY BAD>

Now, your arguement that everyone\'s opinion is just because everything is relitive to time does not hold water. Somethings are static and some are dynamic. Your theory is flawed based on the one statement I just made. It is not the exception to the rule.

Bottom Line -- There are opinions that are WRONG. They can and have been proven wrong. It really makes no difference at what point in time they are made. They were wrong when they made them and they will always be wrong. Now, they are opinions that can probably never be proven wrong or right. But that doesn\'t change the FACT that opinions are wrong.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-22-2003, 04:02 PM

Agree again WhoDat.

WhoDat · 10-22-2003, 04:09 PM

OK, good. So in 50 years, mankind could find this out and the result could serve to prove that one of us was right all along and the other was wrong all along. Correct?

I assume that you will agree with that, so I\'ll move on. In essence, what is happening now is that there is no known universal truth. So you and I are looking at the same set of facts, and coming to different conclusions. Both of our beliefs are based on strong reasoning and thorough analysis, right? So who is right and who is wrong?

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-22-2003, 04:22 PM

WhoDat -- I give you an \'A\' for effort.

Some opinions can never be proven right of wrong. No arguement from me here.

However, some can be proven wrong tomorrow !!

Some are just flat out wrong when they make \'em!!

Do you agree with that?

Example: The Saints are not owned by Tom Benson. He is just a front for his sister\'s ownership.

[Edited on 22/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

WhoDat · 10-22-2003, 04:35 PM

OK Billy, I get your point as well. So let me counter with this - we\'ll use what the courts use.

For something like gravity, that would conform to the standards set in criminal cases - beyond the shadow of a doubt. So if you were a prosecutor and I was a defense attorney trying to prove that gravity did not exist, you\'d win.

Then there\'s the lesser standard set forth in civil cases (AKA law suits). This is simply the perponderence of evidence. So to take your example, if you tried to prove that Benson hypothetical statement, I could probably beat you by showing a good amount of evidence to the contrary, right?

So let\'s go ahead and bring it back to the Brooks discussion. You know, or at least I hope you do, that I am doing my damnedest to give Brooks a fair shake this season, right? I mean, I\'ve been pretty honest about his performances thus far, haven\'t I? I defended him early in the season, I\'ve admitted time and again that he is not the problem this year, and I\'ve now even said that if he keeps this up he will make a believer out of me... haven\'t I?

Now, I\'ll bet you everything you\'ve got that I can use statistics, game film, quotes from players, fans, coaches, analysts, and journalists to prove BOTH sides of this argument. You know what that tells me? There is no universal truth on this matter just yet. And as long as there isn\'t, any person that can make a concise and thought out argument on the issue is no more right or wrong than any other person. If I believe that Brooks is great and you think he stinks, I\'m not right and neither are you. The only person who can settle this is AB... and Father Time. In the meantime, unfortunately my friend, you\'re not right. You\'re not wrong either. You simply are. Get it?

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-22-2003, 04:41 PM

WhoDat -- I think you have been very fair about Brooks. Look, the only thing I\'m saying is that some people have written the end to the Brooks story before it\'s time. I don\'t think you have or gator has. Just because someone has an OPINION that Brooks needs to be cut, doesn\'t mean they are right. Now, I\'m not speaking for all of man kind when I say they are wrong. I am speaking for MYSELF. In MY eyes they are wrong.

I\'m not telling them to not express their opinions. I\'m just calling them on it........

WhoDat · 10-22-2003, 04:48 PM

Fair enough.

Please allow me to make a suggestion then that might help diffuse this situation then. When you disagree, say \"I disagree.\" Or say, \"When I look at this thing, I come to this conclusion.\" Or, \"My opinion is...\" etc.

If I were you I would stay away from statements in which you make ascertions about a) facts, or b) claim that no one could see it differently unless they are being biased.

Statements like those are the ones that make you come across as crass B. After playing this out I realize that you may not really feel that way, it\'s simply your delivery. No doubt, we all get emotional about this team and these debates. I just think you\'ll get farther with people here by simply laying out your argument and showing your clear logic... and eventually simply agreeing to disagree, then you ever will by questions others\' logic, rationale, motives, and/or sexual orientation.

Of course, this is all just my OPINION, so take it for what it\'s worth. Be you man, I\'m just making a suggestion.

10-22-2003, 03:43 PM	#21
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	An exercise in opinions OK I\'m gonna take that as you just don\'t get it. WHODAT, Do you understand what I\'m getting at? There are no absolutes and opinons are never wrong or right because they are relative and always changing. I leave you to the Moron if you answer me. I\'m not gonna call you any names gator. Everything is not always changing my friend. Take electrisity for example. It always flows from negitive to positive. Always has and alway will. Valence electrons are excited by Voltage (pressure applied by difference of potential) and and flow from negitively charged atoms to positively charged atoms. People used to think electrisity flowed from positive to negitive. But it don\'t and never will. Their opinion was WRONG> [Edited on 22/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-22-2003, 03:46 PM	#22
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	An exercise in opinions Agreed.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-22-2003, 03:55 PM	#23
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	An exercise in opinions Ok, good. So I also assume that you would agree that there is a possibility that at some point during the next billion years or so there is the distinct possibility that we may discover the undeniable truth about when life is created. Whether we discover it by a sign from God or a medical proof, is irrelevant. There is the possibility that we show one way or the other when a life is created and it will be undeniable. Just like gravity is undeniable, or to use your example, the flow of electricity. We agree that this can be proven some day, even if we don\'t know it now right?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

10-22-2003, 04:00 PM	#24
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	An exercise in opinions Gator -- I caught my mistake and went back and changed it. MY BAD> Now, your arguement that everyone\'s opinion is just because everything is relitive to time does not hold water. Somethings are static and some are dynamic. Your theory is flawed based on the one statement I just made. It is not the exception to the rule. Bottom Line -- There are opinions that are WRONG. They can and have been proven wrong. It really makes no difference at what point in time they are made. They were wrong when they made them and they will always be wrong. Now, they are opinions that can probably never be proven wrong or right. But that doesn\'t change the FACT that opinions are wrong.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-22-2003, 04:02 PM	#25
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	An exercise in opinions Agree again WhoDat.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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10-22-2003, 04:09 PM	#26
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	An exercise in opinions OK, good. So in 50 years, mankind could find this out and the result could serve to prove that one of us was right all along and the other was wrong all along. Correct? I assume that you will agree with that, so I\'ll move on. In essence, what is happening now is that there is no known universal truth. So you and I are looking at the same set of facts, and coming to different conclusions. Both of our beliefs are based on strong reasoning and thorough analysis, right? So who is right and who is wrong?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

10-22-2003, 04:22 PM	#27
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	An exercise in opinions WhoDat -- I give you an \'A\' for effort. Some opinions can never be proven right of wrong. No arguement from me here. However, some can be proven wrong tomorrow !! Some are just flat out wrong when they make \'em!! Do you agree with that? Example: The Saints are not owned by Tom Benson. He is just a front for his sister\'s ownership. [Edited on 22/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-22-2003, 04:35 PM	#28
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	An exercise in opinions OK Billy, I get your point as well. So let me counter with this - we\'ll use what the courts use. For something like gravity, that would conform to the standards set in criminal cases - beyond the shadow of a doubt. So if you were a prosecutor and I was a defense attorney trying to prove that gravity did not exist, you\'d win. Then there\'s the lesser standard set forth in civil cases (AKA law suits). This is simply the perponderence of evidence. So to take your example, if you tried to prove that Benson hypothetical statement, I could probably beat you by showing a good amount of evidence to the contrary, right? So let\'s go ahead and bring it back to the Brooks discussion. You know, or at least I hope you do, that I am doing my damnedest to give Brooks a fair shake this season, right? I mean, I\'ve been pretty honest about his performances thus far, haven\'t I? I defended him early in the season, I\'ve admitted time and again that he is not the problem this year, and I\'ve now even said that if he keeps this up he will make a believer out of me... haven\'t I? Now, I\'ll bet you everything you\'ve got that I can use statistics, game film, quotes from players, fans, coaches, analysts, and journalists to prove BOTH sides of this argument. You know what that tells me? There is no universal truth on this matter just yet. And as long as there isn\'t, any person that can make a concise and thought out argument on the issue is no more right or wrong than any other person. If I believe that Brooks is great and you think he stinks, I\'m not right and neither are you. The only person who can settle this is AB... and Father Time. In the meantime, unfortunately my friend, you\'re not right. You\'re not wrong either. You simply are. Get it?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

10-22-2003, 04:41 PM	#29
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	An exercise in opinions WhoDat -- I think you have been very fair about Brooks. Look, the only thing I\'m saying is that some people have written the end to the Brooks story before it\'s time. I don\'t think you have or gator has. Just because someone has an OPINION that Brooks needs to be cut, doesn\'t mean they are right. Now, I\'m not speaking for all of man kind when I say they are wrong. I am speaking for MYSELF. In MY eyes they are wrong. I\'m not telling them to not express their opinions. I\'m just calling them on it........
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-22-2003, 04:48 PM	#30
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	An exercise in opinions Fair enough. Please allow me to make a suggestion then that might help diffuse this situation then. When you disagree, say \"I disagree.\" Or say, \"When I look at this thing, I come to this conclusion.\" Or, \"My opinion is...\" etc. If I were you I would stay away from statements in which you make ascertions about a) facts, or b) claim that no one could see it differently unless they are being biased. Statements like those are the ones that make you come across as crass B. After playing this out I realize that you may not really feel that way, it\'s simply your delivery. No doubt, we all get emotional about this team and these debates. I just think you\'ll get farther with people here by simply laying out your argument and showing your clear logic... and eventually simply agreeing to disagree, then you ever will by questions others\' logic, rationale, motives, and/or sexual orientation. Of course, this is all just my OPINION, so take it for what it\'s worth. Be you man, I\'m just making a suggestion.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"