Will we have a new HC?

BlackandBlue · 11-10-2003, 05:06 PM

...and knowing is half the battle.

P.S. To all those involved, if I seem to be a bit on edge, I quit smoking, so F all of yah (j/k) :P

WhoDat · 11-10-2003, 06:58 PM

Man, Saintfan and Billy would have us believe that the problem with the Saints is the players. Right, Deuce, Horn, your beloved Brooks, Bentley, Gandy, Conwell, Grant, Sullivan, Whitehead, Green, etc. etc. etc. they\'re all playing terribly and poor Haslett has to suffer b/c of it. Oops, who hired them? Meuller and Loomis right? They just pick whatever players they like and Jim just has to deal with it right?

Bottom line - these are the players HASLETT wanted. If they\'re playing poorly, it\'s his fault for going after them, or not being able to inspire them, or get their heads on straight. And YES, it is HIS fault. You see any of Parcell\'s boys underacheiving? How about Fox\'s? Vermeil\'s? Bellicheck\'s?

Yes, every team and every coach has ups and downs. Our ups make us 9-7 and one game out of the playoffs or 4-5 after 9 games... whoopee!! The amazing thing about all of this is how Billy and Saintfan tell you certain things will NEVER happen, and when they do, well it\'s OK. Billy said the Saints would be 12-4. I said 8-8 or 7-9 and I got BASHED. Where do they sit after nine games? On pace for 7-9 or 8-8. This was unfathomable to those two 10 weeks ago, but when it happens, everyone gets a pass.

Here\'s a little food for thought. What did the Saints need coming into this off-season? A couple of solid DTs, a big-play MLB, a shut-down corner, a safety to replace Knight, a TE, and a backup RB. What will we need going into this off-season? A DT, a big-play MLB, a shut-down corner, a safety to replace T-sucky, and a back-up RB. Amazing. So basically the FIFTH most money under the cap netted us, uh, nothing. Congrats to Loomis and Haslett.

The bottom line here guys, is that a few people on this board fell in love with Haslett and Brooks in a story-book season they had in 2000. Now, they can\'t get past that to see the reality of the situation.

Saintfan, who don\'t I want to fire? The entire offense (that includes Brooks), the D-line, Lewis, Gleason, and McAffee. I want a new coach and especially new coordinators, and I want to revamp the LBs and secondary. That obviosly is a bad idea to you. B/c what we\'re doing right now is clearly working right?

And yes BnB - something like 1 out of the 6 teams with the leagues best runningbacks made the playoffs last season.

JOESAM2002 · 11-10-2003, 06:59 PM

Congrats B&B hang in there on the not smoking. It\'s been 7 months for me now. I had a beer the other night and didn\'t even think about a cigarette. Might have been that naked lady with me had something to do with it though? LOL. :P

ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs- · 11-10-2003, 07:06 PM

Might have been that naked lady with me had something to do with it though?

Then you should be in a great mood - :P Now how \'bout getting my old screen name back for me?

WhoDat · 11-10-2003, 07:12 PM

EDIT:

Teams with top 5 rushers that made the playoffs last season: 0
Teams with top 10 rushers that made the playoffs last season: 1

Teams with top 5 defenses that made the playoffs last season: 2
Teams with top 10 defenses that made the playoffs last season: 5

And one for fun - 4 of the 6 teams with QBs with the highest Passer Rating made the playoffs last season.

Want to revise your statement Billy?

WhoDat · 11-10-2003, 07:13 PM

Now how \'bout getting my old screen name back for me?

Joe - PLEASE make him a rookie!!! Please!

ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs- · 11-10-2003, 07:15 PM

No I do not. There is no doubt in my mind that throughout history that teams with good running backs have made the playoffs more than poor rushing teams. You know it. I know it and ANYONE who knows anything about football knows it. Would you like to admit I\'m right now or would you like to disagree? Where ya at Dat?

ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs- · 11-10-2003, 07:23 PM

WhoDat -- Just for fun. Tell me how many of these superbowl teams did not have a great running back??

Super Bowl Boxscores

Game Date Result
XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 New England 20, St. Louis 17
XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Baltimore 34, N.Y. Giants 7
XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16
XXXIII Jan. 31, 1999 Denver 34, Atlanta 19
XXXII Jan. 25, 1998 Denver 31, Green Bay 24
XXXI Jan. 26, 1997 Green Bay 35, New England 21
XXX Jan. 28, 1996 Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17
XXIX Jan. 29, 1995 San Francisco 49, San Diego 26
XXVIII Jan. 30, 1994 Dallas 30, Buffalo 13
XXVII Jan. 31, 1993 Dallas 52, Buffalo 17
XXVI Jan. 26, 1992 Washington 37, Buffalo 24
XXV Jan. 27, 1991 N.Y. Giants 20, Buffalo 19
XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10
XXIII Jan. 22, 1989 San Francisco 20, Cincinnati 16
XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10
XXI Jan. 25, 1987 N.Y. Giants 39, Denver 20
XX Jan. 26, 1986 Chicago 46, New England 10
XIX Jan. 20, 1985 San Francisco 38, Miami 16
XVIII Jan. 22, 1984 L.A. Raiders 38, Washington 9
XVII Jan. 30, 1983 Washington 27, Miami 17
XVI Jan. 24, 1982 San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21
XV Jan. 25, 1981 Oakland 27, Philadelphia 10
XIV Jan. 20, 1980 Pittsburgh 31, L.A. Rams 19
XIII Jan. 21, 1979 Pittsburgh 35, Dallas 31
XII Jan. 15, 1978 Dallas 27, Denver 10
XI Jan. 9, 1977 Oakland 32, Minnesota 14
X Jan. 18, 1976 Pittsburgh 21, Dallas 17
IX Jan. 12, 1975 Pittsburgh 16, Minnesota 6
VIII Jan. 13, 1974 Miami 24, Minnesota 7
VII Jan. 14, 1973 Miami 14, Washington 7
VI Jan. 16, 1972 Dallas 24, Miami 3
V Jan. 17, 1971 Baltimore 16, Dallas 13
IV Jan. 11, 1970 Kansas City 23, Minnesota 7
III Jan. 12, 1969 N.Y. Jets 16, Baltimore 7
II Jan. 14, 1968 Green Bay 33, Oakland 14
I Jan. 15, 1967 Green Bay 35, Kansas City 10

WhoDat · 11-10-2003, 07:41 PM

Billy still thinks it\'s 1967 apparently. How about we look at the last five years?

Tampa and Oakland - None.
New England and St. Louis - One. Faulk.
Baltimore and the Giants - tough call. Neither of these RBs are great and neither had great seasons that year.
St. Louis and Tennessee - Faulk and George were both awesome that season. Two.
Denver and Atlanta - TD and Jamal. Both great that year. Two.

So of the last ten SB teams, half had great running games. 7 of those teams had serious passing games Billy.

In any case, this is a ridiculous argument. Obviously a great RB and defense are big part of great teams throughout NFL history. So what is your excuse for the defense? Look at the players Jim has brought in on that side of the ball. Grant and Howard are studs. Sullivan can be. How about Ruff? Smith? Hodge? Allen? They RUINED Clemons. How about the secondary? Carter, Thomas, Ambrose, Craver, Fahkir Brown?!?! Yeah, all-stars. Safety - T-sucky - the biggest bust in the NFL this season, Bellamy, Mitchell, Green. Again. All-stars. How many big defensive players did we sign this off-season? 4: Jones, Rodgers, Ruff, and Ambrose. How many have paid off? Rodgers and maybe Ruff? We all consider Haslett and Co. to be great in the draft. There are three players from the last two drafts making any difference. Bentley, Grant, and Sullivan. Stallworth has been mediocre at best. Have any of the others even seen the field?

So with all this money, all these draft picks, and a solid offense (and a great RB - half the formula in Billy-land), the Saints added Rodgers, Sullivan and.... uh.... <crickets chirping>... who?

Bottom line - you cannot argue with results. So far Haslett\'s been able to get to the playoffs 33% of the time. If he fails this season that drops to 25%. With this team, that is unacceptible. Billy calls me the most pessimistic person in the world, but when the Saints play so poorly it makes me look right on or even optimistic, it\'s all OK. I hope everyone else can see this as clearly as I can.

ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs- · 11-10-2003, 07:51 PM

Obviously a great RB and defense are big part of great teams throughout NFL history.

Which is what I said to begin with. You could have agreed and we could have moved right on along -

I have already said that Haslett has underachieved. I don\'t have an agenda here and I am not trying to make anything up to support Haslett. I just don\'t put as much blame on Haslett as some of you do. I can show you a bunch of very good coaches in the NFL right now who have simular or worse records than Haslett over a 4-year period and I bet you wouldn\'t want them fired. You would start saying \"yeah but.\"

Mike Shanahan
Head Coach

| 2000 den | 11 5 0 | 0 1 |
| 2001 den | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |
| 2002 den | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 2003 den | 5 4 0 | 0 0 |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| TOTALS | 94 63 0 | 7 2 |

Does Shanahan get a free pass??

[Edited on 11/11/2003 by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs-]

11-10-2003, 05:06 PM	#51
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Will we have a new HC? ...and knowing is half the battle. P.S. To all those involved, if I seem to be a bit on edge, I quit smoking, so F all of yah (j/k) :P

11-10-2003, 06:58 PM	#52
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Will we have a new HC? Man, Saintfan and Billy would have us believe that the problem with the Saints is the players. Right, Deuce, Horn, your beloved Brooks, Bentley, Gandy, Conwell, Grant, Sullivan, Whitehead, Green, etc. etc. etc. they\'re all playing terribly and poor Haslett has to suffer b/c of it. Oops, who hired them? Meuller and Loomis right? They just pick whatever players they like and Jim just has to deal with it right? Bottom line - these are the players HASLETT wanted. If they\'re playing poorly, it\'s his fault for going after them, or not being able to inspire them, or get their heads on straight. And YES, it is HIS fault. You see any of Parcell\'s boys underacheiving? How about Fox\'s? Vermeil\'s? Bellicheck\'s? Yes, every team and every coach has ups and downs. Our ups make us 9-7 and one game out of the playoffs or 4-5 after 9 games... whoopee!! The amazing thing about all of this is how Billy and Saintfan tell you certain things will NEVER happen, and when they do, well it\'s OK. Billy said the Saints would be 12-4. I said 8-8 or 7-9 and I got BASHED. Where do they sit after nine games? On pace for 7-9 or 8-8. This was unfathomable to those two 10 weeks ago, but when it happens, everyone gets a pass. Here\'s a little food for thought. What did the Saints need coming into this off-season? A couple of solid DTs, a big-play MLB, a shut-down corner, a safety to replace Knight, a TE, and a backup RB. What will we need going into this off-season? A DT, a big-play MLB, a shut-down corner, a safety to replace T-sucky, and a back-up RB. Amazing. So basically the FIFTH most money under the cap netted us, uh, nothing. Congrats to Loomis and Haslett. The bottom line here guys, is that a few people on this board fell in love with Haslett and Brooks in a story-book season they had in 2000. Now, they can\'t get past that to see the reality of the situation. Saintfan, who don\'t I want to fire? The entire offense (that includes Brooks), the D-line, Lewis, Gleason, and McAffee. I want a new coach and especially new coordinators, and I want to revamp the LBs and secondary. That obviosly is a bad idea to you. B/c what we\'re doing right now is clearly working right? And yes BnB - something like 1 out of the 6 teams with the leagues best runningbacks made the playoffs last season.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-10-2003, 06:59 PM	#53
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Will we have a new HC? Congrats B&B hang in there on the not smoking. It\'s been 7 months for me now. I had a beer the other night and didn\'t even think about a cigarette. Might have been that naked lady with me had something to do with it though? LOL. :P

11-10-2003, 07:06 PM	#54
ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs- Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 111	Will we have a new HC? Might have been that naked lady with me had something to do with it though? Then you should be in a great mood - :P Now how \'bout getting my old screen name back for me?

11-10-2003, 07:12 PM	#55
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Will we have a new HC? EDIT: Teams with top 5 rushers that made the playoffs last season: 0 Teams with top 10 rushers that made the playoffs last season: 1 Teams with top 5 defenses that made the playoffs last season: 2 Teams with top 10 defenses that made the playoffs last season: 5 And one for fun - 4 of the 6 teams with QBs with the highest Passer Rating made the playoffs last season. Want to revise your statement Billy?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

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11-10-2003, 07:13 PM	#56
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Will we have a new HC? Now how \'bout getting my old screen name back for me? Joe - PLEASE make him a rookie!!! Please!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

11-10-2003, 07:15 PM	#57
ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs- Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 111	Will we have a new HC? No I do not. There is no doubt in my mind that throughout history that teams with good running backs have made the playoffs more than poor rushing teams. You know it. I know it and ANYONE who knows anything about football knows it. Would you like to admit I\'m right now or would you like to disagree? Where ya at Dat?

11-10-2003, 07:23 PM	#58
ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs- Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 111	Will we have a new HC? WhoDat -- Just for fun. Tell me how many of these superbowl teams did not have a great running back?? Super Bowl Boxscores Game Date Result XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21 XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 New England 20, St. Louis 17 XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Baltimore 34, N.Y. Giants 7 XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16 XXXIII Jan. 31, 1999 Denver 34, Atlanta 19 XXXII Jan. 25, 1998 Denver 31, Green Bay 24 XXXI Jan. 26, 1997 Green Bay 35, New England 21 XXX Jan. 28, 1996 Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17 XXIX Jan. 29, 1995 San Francisco 49, San Diego 26 XXVIII Jan. 30, 1994 Dallas 30, Buffalo 13 XXVII Jan. 31, 1993 Dallas 52, Buffalo 17 XXVI Jan. 26, 1992 Washington 37, Buffalo 24 XXV Jan. 27, 1991 N.Y. Giants 20, Buffalo 19 XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10 XXIII Jan. 22, 1989 San Francisco 20, Cincinnati 16 XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10 XXI Jan. 25, 1987 N.Y. Giants 39, Denver 20 XX Jan. 26, 1986 Chicago 46, New England 10 XIX Jan. 20, 1985 San Francisco 38, Miami 16 XVIII Jan. 22, 1984 L.A. Raiders 38, Washington 9 XVII Jan. 30, 1983 Washington 27, Miami 17 XVI Jan. 24, 1982 San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21 XV Jan. 25, 1981 Oakland 27, Philadelphia 10 XIV Jan. 20, 1980 Pittsburgh 31, L.A. Rams 19 XIII Jan. 21, 1979 Pittsburgh 35, Dallas 31 XII Jan. 15, 1978 Dallas 27, Denver 10 XI Jan. 9, 1977 Oakland 32, Minnesota 14 X Jan. 18, 1976 Pittsburgh 21, Dallas 17 IX Jan. 12, 1975 Pittsburgh 16, Minnesota 6 VIII Jan. 13, 1974 Miami 24, Minnesota 7 VII Jan. 14, 1973 Miami 14, Washington 7 VI Jan. 16, 1972 Dallas 24, Miami 3 V Jan. 17, 1971 Baltimore 16, Dallas 13 IV Jan. 11, 1970 Kansas City 23, Minnesota 7 III Jan. 12, 1969 N.Y. Jets 16, Baltimore 7 II Jan. 14, 1968 Green Bay 33, Oakland 14 I Jan. 15, 1967 Green Bay 35, Kansas City 10

11-10-2003, 07:41 PM	#59
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Will we have a new HC? Billy still thinks it\'s 1967 apparently. How about we look at the last five years? Tampa and Oakland - None. New England and St. Louis - One. Faulk. Baltimore and the Giants - tough call. Neither of these RBs are great and neither had great seasons that year. St. Louis and Tennessee - Faulk and George were both awesome that season. Two. Denver and Atlanta - TD and Jamal. Both great that year. Two. So of the last ten SB teams, half had great running games. 7 of those teams had serious passing games Billy. In any case, this is a ridiculous argument. Obviously a great RB and defense are big part of great teams throughout NFL history. So what is your excuse for the defense? Look at the players Jim has brought in on that side of the ball. Grant and Howard are studs. Sullivan can be. How about Ruff? Smith? Hodge? Allen? They RUINED Clemons. How about the secondary? Carter, Thomas, Ambrose, Craver, Fahkir Brown?!?! Yeah, all-stars. Safety - T-sucky - the biggest bust in the NFL this season, Bellamy, Mitchell, Green. Again. All-stars. How many big defensive players did we sign this off-season? 4: Jones, Rodgers, Ruff, and Ambrose. How many have paid off? Rodgers and maybe Ruff? We all consider Haslett and Co. to be great in the draft. There are three players from the last two drafts making any difference. Bentley, Grant, and Sullivan. Stallworth has been mediocre at best. Have any of the others even seen the field? So with all this money, all these draft picks, and a solid offense (and a great RB - half the formula in Billy-land), the Saints added Rodgers, Sullivan and.... uh.... <crickets chirping>... who? Bottom line - you cannot argue with results. So far Haslett\'s been able to get to the playoffs 33% of the time. If he fails this season that drops to 25%. With this team, that is unacceptible. Billy calls me the most pessimistic person in the world, but when the Saints play so poorly it makes me look right on or even optimistic, it\'s all OK. I hope everyone else can see this as clearly as I can.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-10-2003, 07:51 PM	#60
ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs- Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 111	Will we have a new HC? Obviously a great RB and defense are big part of great teams throughout NFL history. Which is what I said to begin with. You could have agreed and we could have moved right on along - I have already said that Haslett has underachieved. I don\'t have an agenda here and I am not trying to make anything up to support Haslett. I just don\'t put as much blame on Haslett as some of you do. I can show you a bunch of very good coaches in the NFL right now who have simular or worse records than Haslett over a 4-year period and I bet you wouldn\'t want them fired. You would start saying \"yeah but.\" Mike Shanahan Head Coach \| 2000 den \| 11 5 0 \| 0 1 \| \| 2001 den \| 8 8 0 \| 0 0 \| \| 2002 den \| 9 7 0 \| 0 0 \| \| 2003 den \| 5 4 0 \| 0 0 \| +----------+--------------+----------+ \| TOTALS \| 94 63 0 \| 7 2 \| Does Shanahan get a free pass?? [Edited on 11/11/2003 by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs-]