GATORMAN RULES

lumm0x · 11-26-2003, 07:02 PM

Fill in Berger. He got the hand whacked last game.

BillytheSaint · 11-26-2003, 07:46 PM

Its sad to see the team have a poor performance when a big game comes along. We want our team to rise to the occasion. McCarthy\'s play calling I criticized last year and no one commented, now its obvious. I hope that the next OC will be someone who can grow into the head coach job. Brooks performance this year has been disapointing, he has not improved alot. I feel thats the coaches responsibility to train him correctly and work on his shortcomings.We must realize that McCarthy puts this team in stupid akward positions on the field and that contrubutes to his poor performance. I say McCarthy out, trade Brooks for draft pics, keep Haslet 1 more year, get FA QB and draft a QB. What worries me is that the recievers are getting banged up. We need durable players with HANDS on the offense. All these dropped passes and fumbles are rediculous in the NFL. We need some intimidating BEEFY, MEAN, guys on the D. Every team that comes to the Dome should fear the punishment for taking the field against the Black and Gold! I hope that the draft and off seasnon moves correctly address the shortcomings and needs of the team. Brooks can improve, but when?

WhoDat · 11-29-2003, 08:07 AM

I say that Brooks needs to take care of the ball better, I say he isn\'t very good at reading defenses, I say his touch needs to improve, I say he needs better pocket awareness and to be more decisive, I say he can\'t manage the game, I say he isn\'t a good enough leader, and I\'m a short-sided lunatic who clearly doesn\'t understand football and has an agenda - despite proving Billy wrong on just about every prediction he\'s made for the Saints this season. Lumm0x says these things and Billy AGREES. The agenda is clear Billy, it\'s yours against me.

BrooksMustGo · 11-29-2003, 05:49 PM

I agree with Gator.

Why don\'t we all head over to the A Break from the Brooks Debate thread and try to get some perspective on what\'s important.

saintfan · 12-01-2003, 05:03 PM

Billy, dropped passes, penalties, missed blocks, etc. happen all the time and they\'re not drive stoppers.

I tried really hard to avoid this thread, but that statement above is just way too much. Are there really people posting on this site who beleive, honestly, with all their heart, that dropped passes, penalties, and missed blocks, etc. DON\'T stop drives? Did you people just start watching football in August. My girlfriend did and even SHE knows better. Man I dunno if it\'s the Tang or the 08er-aid or what, but you people are f-ed up on something, and that ain\'t no lie!

Would any of you people (man I wanted to type something else there) like to stand in front of, oh, say, Bill Parcells, and attempt to tell him that dropped passes, penalties, and missed blocks, etc don\'t stop drives? GOD whodat, I wish you were a reporter for the Dallas Morning News, and I wish to GOD you\'d make that statement to Bill Parcells in a press conference, cause he\'d wipe the floor with your azz man.

:casstet:

WhoDat · 12-01-2003, 10:38 PM

Saintfan, you\'re taking that quote completely out of context, but yes, I continue to stand behind that statement. My point was simple:

A. Turnovers stop drives. You cannot argue that.
B. Dropped passed, penalties, and missed blocks do not ALWAYS translate into a drive killers. They certainly HURT the drive, and they CAN kill a drive, but there are many many many times during an NFL season where a penalty, dropped pass, or missed block occurs during a drive and the team overcomes it. Honestly, if those things killed a drive without question, the way turnovers do, the Saints would probably have only scored one half, or maybe a third as many points this season as they actually have.

So, to answer your question, \"Are there really people posting on this site who beleive, honestly, with all their heart, that dropped passes, penalties, and missed blocks, etc. DON\'T stop drives?\" YES. They DO NOT ALWAYS stop drives. You won\'t hear me say that they don\'t hurt, especially when they occur often or on bad down and distance situations. However, I can give you numerous examples of false start penalties or dropped passes on first down that didn\'t stop a drive. Can you name one time that a turnover didn\'t stop a drive?

This all goes back to a challenge that I made to Billy which should have been extremely easy for him to quiet me on. I said that Brooks had 15 turnovers this season. That is undoubtedly 15 drives ended. I told Billy to give me 15 examples of times that other players stopped drives by dropping passes, committing penalties, or missing blocks. This should be VERY easy, there are lots of examples, yet Billy couldn\'t do it. I was simply trying to prove that Billy talks and talks but nothing he says is based on hard numbers or facts. That is still the case. Now, if you want, I can go back and figure out how many times the Saints have had a penalty, dropped pass, or missed block on a scoring drive this season. Care to wager that number is larger than the number of scoring drives by the Saints that included a turnover?

saintfan · 12-02-2003, 08:04 AM

Don\'t try and make that argument for my sake Whodat. Cuddle up next to Gator and sip that Tang. Maybe the two of you can share the same straw. You\'re mencing words from where I\'m sittin\', but the only word that matters with respect to that quote is silly. Just plain silly.

Don\'t make the argument for my sake man, cause I ain\'t buyin\' what you\'re sellin\'. Stand up in front of ANY NFL coach and make that statement...just do me a favor and let me know when and where, cause I wanna witness the look they give you right before they tell you you\'re crazy.

[Edited on 2/12/2003 by saintfan]

lumm0x · 12-02-2003, 08:33 AM

If WhoDat stood in front of Bill Parcells and asked him if there is one thing that he could eliminate from his team\'s play, I can almost guarantee it would be turnovers. WhoDat is trying to tell you that turnovers are more costly than penalties, dropped passes and missed blocks. Both can have the same effect, given the situation, but apples to apples, turnovers are singularly a bigger problem.
Your consistent responses of \"go drink more tang\" surely defend your position in the arguement effectively. It effectively proves your \"Brooks goggles\" cloud your vision on any topic that could be potentially useful data to attack Brooks.
I don\'t dislike Brooks, and I\'m not against you when you believe he is a starting caliber QB in this league and should be the Saints starter now and next year, but in truth, you aren\'t an ally I\'d want to wade into this arguement with against these guys.

saintfan · 12-02-2003, 09:23 AM

Thank you for your opinion lummox...next time I\'ll ask for it...k?

The problem you people have is that you, not I, are singular in your vision. You people blame Aaron Brooks for EVERYTHING...no exceptions. You occasionally post that Brooks performed adequately, and then you run back and point to it when your agenda becomes obvious. It\'s completely pointless to get you people to see the forest for the trees. You\'re too singluar in your views.

The fact remains lummox that the quote whodat made regarding penalties etc would NOT fly sir. You know it, which is why you re-worded the question. Whodat knows it too. It\'s the \"Tang Clan\" etc that attackes those with a different, complete view of the current Saints delima. I should know. I defend Brooks on this site not because of the \"Brooks Goggles\" you childishly refer to, but because I see other issues on this team. I have N-E-V-E-R indicated he would some day become a Hall of Fame QB. That is assumed by people on this site when someone trys to defend his play versus the TEAMS play. If the Saints lose a game, ANY game, people on this site point straight to Aaron Brooks. Some think he\'s stupid. Others think there\'s a freakin\' conspiracy theory for God\'s sake. Ultimately those people have deemed themselves (self appointed mind you) better judges of talent than people who actually played in the NFL or are otherwise paid to perform in it to some degree or other. With myself and a small number of others as an exception, most of the people who post here agree on this Brooks Agenda. Those with a different opinion don\'t last very long...at least not here. I find it odd that something could be so obvious to 5 or 6 guys on this site that management of the New Orleans Saints could have such a different opinion. On which side of the debate does the true NFL experience reside. Ask yourself that question, then take another sip of whatever it is you\'re drinkin\' and pass it on to whodat. Enjoy the party, just remember the prevailing opinion on this board is base on NOTHING, really, other than a few guys who don\'t like Aaron Brooks now and never did.

JOESAM2002 · 12-02-2003, 09:36 AM

Sounds to me like this is getting personal. I will ask you guys nicely to cool it down, or you know what comes next. Before anyone starts saying but I didn\'t start it, I really don\'t care who did, I just want it stopped. Thank you.

11-26-2003, 07:02 PM	#71
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	GATORMAN RULES Fill in Berger. He got the hand whacked last game.

11-26-2003, 07:46 PM	#72
BillytheSaint Rookie Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 19	GATORMAN RULES Its sad to see the team have a poor performance when a big game comes along. We want our team to rise to the occasion. McCarthy\'s play calling I criticized last year and no one commented, now its obvious. I hope that the next OC will be someone who can grow into the head coach job. Brooks performance this year has been disapointing, he has not improved alot. I feel thats the coaches responsibility to train him correctly and work on his shortcomings.We must realize that McCarthy puts this team in stupid akward positions on the field and that contrubutes to his poor performance. I say McCarthy out, trade Brooks for draft pics, keep Haslet 1 more year, get FA QB and draft a QB. What worries me is that the recievers are getting banged up. We need durable players with HANDS on the offense. All these dropped passes and fumbles are rediculous in the NFL. We need some intimidating BEEFY, MEAN, guys on the D. Every team that comes to the Dome should fear the punishment for taking the field against the Black and Gold! I hope that the draft and off seasnon moves correctly address the shortcomings and needs of the team. Brooks can improve, but when?
BillytheSaint Rookie Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 19

11-29-2003, 08:07 AM	#73
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATORMAN RULES I say that Brooks needs to take care of the ball better, I say he isn\'t very good at reading defenses, I say his touch needs to improve, I say he needs better pocket awareness and to be more decisive, I say he can\'t manage the game, I say he isn\'t a good enough leader, and I\'m a short-sided lunatic who clearly doesn\'t understand football and has an agenda - despite proving Billy wrong on just about every prediction he\'s made for the Saints this season. Lumm0x says these things and Billy AGREES. The agenda is clear Billy, it\'s yours against me.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-29-2003, 05:49 PM	#74
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	GATORMAN RULES I agree with Gator. Why don\'t we all head over to the A Break from the Brooks Debate thread and try to get some perspective on what\'s important.

12-01-2003, 05:03 PM	#75
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	GATORMAN RULES Billy, dropped passes, penalties, missed blocks, etc. happen all the time and they\'re not drive stoppers. I tried really hard to avoid this thread, but that statement above is just way too much. Are there really people posting on this site who beleive, honestly, with all their heart, that dropped passes, penalties, and missed blocks, etc. DON\'T stop drives? Did you people just start watching football in August. My girlfriend did and even SHE knows better. Man I dunno if it\'s the Tang or the 08er-aid or what, but you people are f-ed up on something, and that ain\'t no lie! Would any of you people (man I wanted to type something else there) like to stand in front of, oh, say, Bill Parcells, and attempt to tell him that dropped passes, penalties, and missed blocks, etc don\'t stop drives? GOD whodat, I wish you were a reporter for the Dallas Morning News, and I wish to GOD you\'d make that statement to Bill Parcells in a press conference, cause he\'d wipe the floor with your azz man. :casstet:
	C'mon Man...

Latest Blogs
2023 New Orleans Saints: Training Camp Last Blog: 08-01-2023 By: MarchingOn Puck the Fro Browl! Last Blog: 02-05-2023 By: neugey CFP: "Just Keep Doing What You're Doing" Last Blog: 12-08-2022 By: neugey

12-01-2003, 10:38 PM	#76
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATORMAN RULES Saintfan, you\'re taking that quote completely out of context, but yes, I continue to stand behind that statement. My point was simple: A. Turnovers stop drives. You cannot argue that. B. Dropped passed, penalties, and missed blocks do not ALWAYS translate into a drive killers. They certainly HURT the drive, and they CAN kill a drive, but there are many many many times during an NFL season where a penalty, dropped pass, or missed block occurs during a drive and the team overcomes it. Honestly, if those things killed a drive without question, the way turnovers do, the Saints would probably have only scored one half, or maybe a third as many points this season as they actually have. So, to answer your question, \"Are there really people posting on this site who beleive, honestly, with all their heart, that dropped passes, penalties, and missed blocks, etc. DON\'T stop drives?\" YES. They DO NOT ALWAYS stop drives. You won\'t hear me say that they don\'t hurt, especially when they occur often or on bad down and distance situations. However, I can give you numerous examples of false start penalties or dropped passes on first down that didn\'t stop a drive. Can you name one time that a turnover didn\'t stop a drive? This all goes back to a challenge that I made to Billy which should have been extremely easy for him to quiet me on. I said that Brooks had 15 turnovers this season. That is undoubtedly 15 drives ended. I told Billy to give me 15 examples of times that other players stopped drives by dropping passes, committing penalties, or missing blocks. This should be VERY easy, there are lots of examples, yet Billy couldn\'t do it. I was simply trying to prove that Billy talks and talks but nothing he says is based on hard numbers or facts. That is still the case. Now, if you want, I can go back and figure out how many times the Saints have had a penalty, dropped pass, or missed block on a scoring drive this season. Care to wager that number is larger than the number of scoring drives by the Saints that included a turnover?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

12-02-2003, 08:04 AM	#77
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	GATORMAN RULES Don\'t try and make that argument for my sake Whodat. Cuddle up next to Gator and sip that Tang. Maybe the two of you can share the same straw. You\'re mencing words from where I\'m sittin\', but the only word that matters with respect to that quote is silly. Just plain silly. Don\'t make the argument for my sake man, cause I ain\'t buyin\' what you\'re sellin\'. Stand up in front of ANY NFL coach and make that statement...just do me a favor and let me know when and where, cause I wanna witness the look they give you right before they tell you you\'re crazy. [Edited on 2/12/2003 by saintfan]
	C'mon Man...

12-02-2003, 08:33 AM	#78
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	GATORMAN RULES If WhoDat stood in front of Bill Parcells and asked him if there is one thing that he could eliminate from his team\'s play, I can almost guarantee it would be turnovers. WhoDat is trying to tell you that turnovers are more costly than penalties, dropped passes and missed blocks. Both can have the same effect, given the situation, but apples to apples, turnovers are singularly a bigger problem. Your consistent responses of \"go drink more tang\" surely defend your position in the arguement effectively. It effectively proves your \"Brooks goggles\" cloud your vision on any topic that could be potentially useful data to attack Brooks. I don\'t dislike Brooks, and I\'m not against you when you believe he is a starting caliber QB in this league and should be the Saints starter now and next year, but in truth, you aren\'t an ally I\'d want to wade into this arguement with against these guys.

12-02-2003, 09:23 AM	#79
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	GATORMAN RULES Thank you for your opinion lummox...next time I\'ll ask for it...k? The problem you people have is that you, not I, are singular in your vision. You people blame Aaron Brooks for EVERYTHING...no exceptions. You occasionally post that Brooks performed adequately, and then you run back and point to it when your agenda becomes obvious. It\'s completely pointless to get you people to see the forest for the trees. You\'re too singluar in your views. The fact remains lummox that the quote whodat made regarding penalties etc would NOT fly sir. You know it, which is why you re-worded the question. Whodat knows it too. It\'s the \"Tang Clan\" etc that attackes those with a different, complete view of the current Saints delima. I should know. I defend Brooks on this site not because of the \"Brooks Goggles\" you childishly refer to, but because I see other issues on this team. I have N-E-V-E-R indicated he would some day become a Hall of Fame QB. That is assumed by people on this site when someone trys to defend his play versus the TEAMS play. If the Saints lose a game, ANY game, people on this site point straight to Aaron Brooks. Some think he\'s stupid. Others think there\'s a freakin\' conspiracy theory for God\'s sake. Ultimately those people have deemed themselves (self appointed mind you) better judges of talent than people who actually played in the NFL or are otherwise paid to perform in it to some degree or other. With myself and a small number of others as an exception, most of the people who post here agree on this Brooks Agenda. Those with a different opinion don\'t last very long...at least not here. I find it odd that something could be so obvious to 5 or 6 guys on this site that management of the New Orleans Saints could have such a different opinion. On which side of the debate does the true NFL experience reside. Ask yourself that question, then take another sip of whatever it is you\'re drinkin\' and pass it on to whodat. Enjoy the party, just remember the prevailing opinion on this board is base on NOTHING, really, other than a few guys who don\'t like Aaron Brooks now and never did.
	C'mon Man...

12-02-2003, 09:36 AM	#80
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	GATORMAN RULES Sounds to me like this is getting personal. I will ask you guys nicely to cool it down, or you know what comes next. Before anyone starts saying but I didn\'t start it, I really don\'t care who did, I just want it stopped. Thank you.