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With regrets I wanted to let you all know I'll be gone...for a while anyway. In my most humble opinion, and unfortunately, this web site has become more and more anti-anything with respect to the New Orleans Saints. I have participated in some rather heated debates and have enjoyed most of them. Lately, though, this site has become overrun with Bashers and Know-It-Alls and Armchair QB's and the like and it's no longer a pleasure debating topics here. To disagree with one has become to disagree with virtually everyone, and I don't post here with the intention of drawing the wrath of the moderator.

I know that we all, deep in our hearts, want the Saints to do well, and so I'm in that clan with you all, but the sarcasm and tounge-in-cheek references and quite honestly the "good 'ol boy" standard that has become prevelant here has removed any enjoyment from participating. My method of defense has become more and more to the point and I am aware that this isn't sitting too well with the Moderator. Although the rules do seem to be a bit tilted I'll let that sleeping dog lie.

My best to all of you and to our Saints!

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Don\'t give up yet saintfan. I too have become annoyed with the incessant negativism on this board but there are still a few of us who express realistic hope and maintain realistic optimism.
I joined another board and trust me, they have their own share of \"find the negatives and hammer it endlessly\" types.

Saint bashing, I\'m afraid, is a result of a zillion heartbreaks and endless losing streaks.
No matter where you go, they are gonna be there to point out every negative aspect of this team. I think its simply a childish attemp to cushion the emotional blow IF we do crash and burn. Girly Cowards in my book.
If I\'m going down, I\'m going down swingin\'!

I enjoy you posts quite a bit and this site will definitely suffer if you decide to leave it.

One atom says to another,
\"I think you lost a proton!\"
\"How you know?\" asks the other.
\"Cause you\'re so negative!\"

[Edited on 2/12/2003 by tweeky]

[Edited on 2/12/2003 by JOESAM2002]

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I know this is probably irrelevant, but I don\'t like to see anyone go.

I have been following this board for a good two years now, and I was only moved to post in the last month. My main motivation was to get some clarity on things I couldn\'t understand. I think I\'ve gained some. It is always nice to hear that some people agree with an idea you have, and it is equally nice to hear the ideas of the people who don\'t (at least when they\'re on topic).

To be honest, I\'m not sure why so many people simply end up bashing each other. Perhaps it is just a sad fact of our nature that we like to win? At any rate, I think it is hard not to get frustrated. I\'m sorry you\'ve decided to leave us; there may be many silent observers who agreed, learned, or saw something in these arguments - they are the ones who lose when someone leaves.

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So this is what happens when a carefully constructed dream world collapses.

I\'m just joking Saintfan. You know that there are few I love to hate more than you. I do wish you would reconsider. Another idea might be to rethink you perceptions about this team. I\'m not telling you change b/c of us, however if this many people disagreed with me I would have a hard time being as confident as you seem to be.

In my opinion, this type of criticism tends to polarize people in two types of groups. One group gets worried and questions his views. The other tends to do what I believe Haslett did last year with AB, and that\'s to sink even more faith into an idea simply as a defense mechanism. I wonder if you haven\'t done that yourself. I mean, in a seriousness, do you think that virtually everyone here is just that wrong? Certainly, we\'ve got our share of numb skulls here, but some of us do understand a little bit about football. Can it be that all of these people who love this team and watch them religiously see the same set of problems, and we\'re all seeing just flat wrong? If you answer that question yes, then I would leave too. If the answer is no, then consider staying and try to reevaluate this team unbiasedly.

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I don\'t want to see anyone leave. I just don\'t want to see things get on a personal attack level. We all know this isn\'t allowed. This is a discussion board not a contest to be won or lost. We all differ in opinion, and that\'s just what they are, opinions. If I stated mine i\'m sure some would think i\'m crazy. All I ask is that we keep it civil. Not to much to ask I don\'t think.

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This is a suprise. I thought we were all in agreement that everyone that posts here knows everything, regardless of whether or not viewpoints differ. I don\'t come here to try and set the world on fire, nor do I expect to change anyone\'s mind. I come here to talk football, and suprisingly, learn something every now and then. But 99% of the time, I leave here with the same opinion that I came with. And I\'m pretty sure most everyone else does as well.
Now, be honest, is this about the \"same exact\" debate? :P

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Yeah right .......

Saintsfan , is burnin his vacation time and sick days before years end .

And roastin some posters along the way ........

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My method of defense has become more and more to the point and I am aware that this isn\'t sitting too well with the Moderator.--Saintfan

This guy\'s method of defense has been seen by one and all. For those of us who have disagreed with him, he\'s put words in our mouths and then proceeded to argue with those words. When that doesn\'t work he resorts to personal attacks.

Fari enough. I\'m a big boy...I can handle it. I have yet to subject him to the same treatment because there\'s no point in it. His behavior simply reflects an inability to admit he\'s been living on the wrong side of the debate. So now he\'s gonna take his marbles and go home...





[Edited on 3/12/2003 by JOESAM2002]

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Saintsfan , marbles ??? :o

I thought he had lost those along time ago .......

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What\'s up folks? I\'ve been away for a bit and I see all is not well in paradise. I\'m also seeing a bunch if editing going on and this time I had nothing to do with it. :P Now let\'s get down to some serious business...........

If ANYONE can relate to saintfan it would be ME. This board is full of BASHERS and we all know I feel about that. I have come to understand that they are TRUE saints fans, but they just like to BASH and be negitive, for whatever reason, when the glass could just as easily be looked at as half full. When you\'re 6-6, that\'s exactly what you have !!

Some members have prasied teams like the Cowboys and Panthers but yet they are only 2-games ahead of the Saints and could likely only be 1-game ahead of us after Sunday. Personally, I could care less what the negetive folks think. They ain\'t changing my mind. I\'ve got 2-eyes and a brain. I can think for myself. It\'s a roller coaster ride and if ANYONE wants to tell me the Saints are not going to the playoffs, then if they were that good, they would be making a living a predicting this stuff.

I know I\'ll probably will never get anyone to change their mind or get them to admit they are WRONG, but I\'ll keep giving it a shot.

saintfan -- You once told me to not let them bother me and keep speaking my mind. Now, I offer you that same advice. Screw \'em -- LOL

[Edited on 4/12/2003 by BillyC]

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Call it whatever you want, but when a guy like, I dunno, WHODAT, says that the Saints are going to be about .500 this season, and gets bashed all to hell by another guy we\'ll just call Billy, to protect the innocent, who claims that the Saints are undoubtedly going to be 13-3 (I looked it up, you said 13-3 not 12-4), and then the Saints end up .500 after 75% of the season and incapable of getting to the 13-3 mark, and \"Billy\" keeps telling WhoDat about how he is short-sighted and doesn\'t understand football... well, let\'s just say it\'s hard to side with Billy and his even more greatly entrenched cohort saintfan. (how about that for a run-on sentence??)

Point is, it\'s real hard to keep up the good fight when you\'re on the losing side of the argument. I\'ll credit you Billy for at least being man enough to step up and admit you were wrong. That hasn\'t stop you from arguing about how right you are, but ocassionally the Tang wears off for long enough and you see things clearly and are cool about it. I\'ve been wrong and I will be wrong again. You and I will have plenty of good arguments in the future, but point is we\'ve both given each other credit where credit is due. Despite your Brooks goggles, you still see the rest of the field pretty well when you want to. Saintfan hadn\'t admitted being wrong in the slightest bit in over a year. It gets tough to continue to fight that fight when you arguments start to sound like those of the former Iraqi Intelligence Officer. \"Americans? There are no Americans here, and if there were they would be comitting suicide at my feet!\" (cut to picture of US tank rolling over 5 Iraqi soldiers in the background). That\'s what Saintfan has started to sound like to me.

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I\'m pretty sure the only person I\'ve ever flamed on this board was B&B.

But I would observe that there is perhaps no middle ground on the subject of Brooks\' play. Most Saints fans I know either
1. Adore him OR
2. Detest him.

Like it or not, Brooks seems to have polarized fans of this team. And certainly, Brooks isn\'t responsible for every loss. But Brooks does bear more share of responsibility than the average member of the special teams unit. Whether you like it or not, he is the QB and the QB\'s job is to help the offense score points. Like it or not, Brooks is the only guy on the team other than the center who touches the ball on every play.

In fairness to Brooks, a large part of his problem has been Jim Haslett. Haslett put him in over Blake after promising that no one loses a job to injury. Haslett has consistently gone easy on Brooks even when Brooks has done some really dumb things (as every new QB does). And Haslett has played Brooks hurt and caused the team to miss the playoffs when Brooks was physically unable to help the team win.

As a result, Brooks will be scrutinized more closely for his play and decision making than any other member of the team. Now perhaps that isn\'t fair, but if it\'s too much, maybe Brooks should start playing wide receiver.

The QB takes more than his share of credit for any wins, and more than his share of blame for any losses. Any mistake by the QB draws a lot more attention generally than a missed tackle on the defensive side. But on the flip side, it\'s easier for a QB to get back in good graces. After last Monday, Pennington was seen as a treasure for the Jets, even though he threw 2 picks. I think the same holds true for Brooks.

What I don\'t understand is why many discussions on Brooks have to dissolve into \"F*$! )#$\" wars. I would rather that reasonable people could reasonably disagree.

At any rate, the fact remains that Aaron Brooks is a lightning rod for people who love this team. Because they disagree doesn\'t mean they love the team any less. Because they disagree doesn\'t mean they are any less welcome to express their ideas. However, because they disagree doesn\'t mean that they are mental defectives, chemical dependants, inferior people or closet fans of other teams. I mean honestly: who else bothers to post on a team board day in day out that isn\'t a real fan? (Other than those guys like BucNup who stop by just to devil the other teams fans)

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Very good post BMG

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AMEN, good post BMG.

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Really? When? Was I funny? Honestly, I don\'t remember it, but then my memory is not what it once was either ;)

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I agree with almost everything BMG has said. My problem with many of the \"if you don\'t like Brooks, you don\'t know football\" gang is that the reciprocal could also be accurate...i.e. if you adore Brooks, you don\'t know football.

If I\'m having a discussion with someone and I\'m told, \"You don\'t know what you\'re talking about\" in response to a point I\'ve made, well frankly, at that juncture I pretty much believe I do know what I\'m talking about and I\'ve just proven it by virtue of the pathetic response I\'ve just received. It\'s kinda like having an argument with someone and they\'ve gotten to where the only thing they can come up with is dropping the \"F\" bomb: \"Oh yeah? Well f--- you!\" As far as I\'m concerned, that\'s an admission of defeat.

I don\'t know that Saintfan dropped any f-bombs but at times he seemed mighty close...and while many of us can laugh it off, it\'s unnecessary, disrespectful and downright rude.

Anyway, he\'ll be back...especially if the Saints continue to win. I really hope we can hear the \"I told you so\"s. That would Brooks finally got it together...or they put Bouman in.

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I hope he comes back. I don\'t remember him ever getting obscene with anyone here. If he did i\'m sure it was a lot less than many posters here. Most of what I remember about him was that he usually brought game and backed it up well.
There\'s probably a 3 to 1 ratio of negative to positive takes on this board, and with him leaving that ratio goes up.

32 teams, 1 SB winner, 12 playoff teams.
Parity implies each team makes the playoffs about once every 3 years,
And every team would win the superbowl once every 32 years.
We\'re overdue for both!

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For anyone to be suggesting that saintfan was going around being obscene is ridiculous. I don\'t think there is a long time member here that hasn\'t lost his temper before. Blake, if you stick around long enough I\'m pretty sure you will too.

There\'s no doubt the the BASHERS rule on this board. The only way to be accepted in the gang around here is to critcize EVERYONE but Deuce. If you HATE Aaron Brooks then you might get promoted. If you say the coaches suck then you\'re a genius. If you think Delhomme is a FRANCHISE QB, you can do no wrong. After all the Panthers are 8-4. ENOUGH SAID !!

You can talk about penalties, dropped passes, lack of execution, but they ALWAYS point to Brooks. If you try to talk about ANYONE else then you are making excuses for Brooks.

The Brooks bashers tell me and saintfan that we are WRONG all the time. I tell them that they are wrong and they tell me that no one can EVER be wrong on here because opinions can\'t be wrong. It\'s all pretty confusing to me. I just accept the FACT that they are hypocritical and go on about my business.

Where are the members that should be standing up for saintfan when someone tells him that he is WRONG? Where ya at boys? Back up some of that preaching that you do? WhoDat? Gator?



[Edited on 6/12/2003 by BillyC]

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Gator -- Just because the majority of the posters here all agree that the Saints pretty much suck. I\'m not going to let you guys cram your opinions down my throat.

I am not buying these things that y\'all have been trying to sell :

1. The Saints playoff hopes were over after the 6th game. (it was said)
2. Brooks needs to be cut or traded. ( also been said )
3. All the coaches need to be fired ( also been said)
4. Everyone on this team is not living up to expectations except Deuce (also been said)
5. The Saints would be better off losing the rest of their games so the coaches would be fired and we could draft Eli Manning.
6. Brooks\' is the biggest problem with the offense and he is just plain stupid and doesn\'t care if we win or lose.

Not only have these things been said. They have been said over and over and over. Forgive me if I disagree with those things and question the logic behind those statements.

Most of these things have been said by WhoDat. But he certainly isn\'t alone. The majority rule and they are the one\'s constantly cramming opininos down someone\'s thorat Gator.

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Great post Gator, and I agree completely... excpet...

Most of this board can disagree cordially and throw a couple of zingers back and forth at one another and it\'s all in good fun. But I will be the first to admit that I have told people that they are wrong. 97% of those statements were directed at Billy and/or Saintfan, and you are correct in saying that it is usually in response to being called short-sighted, unintelligent, drunk on Tang, having an agenda... etc, etc, etc.

I will say this. I agree completely with the spirit of your post, but I have to admit that I have thrown what Billy and Saintfan are selling right back in their faces. Of course, when the entire board agrees with you, yet one poster continues to berate and argue, I don\'t think it\'s wrong to put him in his place. We did that with Swampdog, and I will continue to show Billy the error of his ways. If he attacks, I will continue to make him look silly.

Otherwise, great post! Exactly what I expect out of this board.

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Opininos give me heartburn.

:P

Couldn\'t resist. Just trying to add some levity.