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-   -   Intersting take on NFL Lockout. (http://blackandgold.com/saints/32799-intersting-take-nfl-lockout.html)

BringTheWood 03-19-2011 10:22 AM

Intersting take on NFL Lockout.
 
As I am sure some of you may have seen the contents of these links, and this is generally old news at this point, I am not looking for credit on 'breaking news'.

First link is a pretty honest look into what has been going on with the labor disputes by someone who is no longer financially invested in the league as a player or an owner, making their opinion more third party than anything, but also more genuine. Most intriguing is the information about Southwest Airlines and the interaction and ownership stake that the employees are accustomed to. I personally feel that the business model that they use is near perfect for the NFL, a business where employees are also extremely wealthy, powerful, and influential. It's ignorant for us fans to continue to compare this situation, and the players demands, like those of a burger flipping employee at a multibillion dollar McDonalds corporation asking to see the books.

Hillenmeyer: Cutting Through the NFL Spin | NBC Chicago

Second link is basically the NFLPA stronghold of news and information. Even if you are partial to opposition towards the players stance, it's got some interesting info about the 'safety net' money the league would receive from broadcast contracts and partially explains why the owners and league were so lethargic in getting a deal done. At the end of the day, they were getting paid either way.

NFLLockout.com

Again, this may or may not be new news to the folks around BnG, but I thought I would post it anyways, and offer my opinion of sorts on the matter.

EDIT: I'm not saying the NFL should operate just like Southwest Airlines, but the business model in general seems like it would be a good fit in a place where employers and employees are both reaping such generous rewards. I don't think it's ever been very healthy for the NFL to operate almost like several (32 to be exact) small monopolies that are capable of putting several US cities in financial deathgrips.

Danno 03-19-2011 12:06 PM

If the league folded and started over from scratch, 99% of the current players would play for 1/2 of what they make now.


I'd bet 80% would play for 1/4th of what they make now.

BringTheWood 03-19-2011 12:30 PM

I think your numbers are slightly exaggerated, but I get the point. However, I'm a bit less worried about how greedy everyone is being, and more worried about how the NFL isn't showing particularly good business practices. This isn't the same league that existed in the beginning where players were given room and board, meals and transportation and played for almost nothing. Perhaps it goes further than just football politics for me, to general politics, but I don't think the NFL acts in good faith towards the very people that ensure they exist. They (the NFL and the owners) are the ones that are causing all of this by generally bailing on the CB agreement that should still be in effect. Goodell in general has been bad for fans of the NFL, as his whole focus is on the NFL as SOLELY (Keyword) a business and not as the American pastime that millions love. Same old story is true, more work, less pay, and most importantly, less voice.

Danno 03-19-2011 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringTheWood (Post 290217)
but I don't think the NFL acts in good faith towards the very people that ensure they exist. They (the NFL and the owners) are the ones that are causing all of this by generally bailing on the CB agreement that should still be in effect. Goodell in general has been bad for fans of the NFL, as his whole focus is on the NFL as SOLELY (Keyword) a business and not as the American pastime that millions love. Same old story is true, more work, less pay, and most importantly, less voice.

I respectfully disagree, the minimum salary is approaching a half million per year. I think they pay these guys quite well. College athletes do it for 1/10th the price, albeit some much more than that.

The bailout was an option negotiated by both sides, which was put there in case the owners weren't getting the deal they'd hoped for. Thats not bad faith, its like a return policy on a product you're unhappy with. They are exercizing a right that the players willingly gave them.

I don't think Goodell has been bad for the fans either. What exactly has he done that's bad for the fans? The players wanted more safety, so he's punishing players who step over the line.

I can't think of one thing Goodell has done that's bad for the fans that the players also didn't also want. The fans wanted drugs out of football, so he adopted a zero tolerance policy. It may have gone a tad overboard with the starcaps case, but that affected about 6 players in total and so far has had zero effect on the fan.

lynwood 03-19-2011 02:30 PM

"Goodell in general has been bad for fans of the NFL, as his whole focus is on the NFL as SOLELY (Keyword) a business and not as the American pastime that millions love."

It is a business. Not a Tournament

Rugby Saint II 03-19-2011 02:52 PM

The owners are multi millionaires and are greedy by nature. The players play the game from the time they are children because they love the game. They grow up hoping that they'll make it big in the pros and making the big money. When it comes to money the players earn it. It then goes to their owner who take the financial risk.
Maybe Southwest has got something that the NFL owners don't. Rules to make them play fair. Let it go to the courts.:argue::argue::argue:

lynwood 03-19-2011 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 290235)
The owners are multi millionaires and are greedy by nature. The players play the game from the time they are children because they love the game. They grow up hoping that they'll make it big in the pros and making the big money. When it comes to money the players earn it. It then goes to their owner who take the financial risk.
Maybe Southwest has got something that the NFL owners don't. Rules to make them play fair. Let it go to the courts.:argue::argue::argue:

The Players are Multi-Millionaires if they stop "making it rain" and invest properly. Who cares how much they love the sport. If it a love of the sport then they wouldn't be crying to the owners that they want 50%. What other company/ owners give their emplyees 50% of the profit? Players play a GAME. They do earn money just like any other worker that has a job earns money. I don't know what you mean by "Owner's play fair." Owners propose a salary, the player accepts it or rejects it. A contract is signed. The NFL needs to break free of all the "we make your business" talk from the players.

Owners own the team not the players. If it does go to courts I hope the players fall on their arse and the owners start new with a fresh draft and no union. Which by the way they dissolved only so they could go to court. Sham!!

Memnoch_TP 03-20-2011 04:30 PM

Everyone needs to get rid of the "The owners are bosses and the players workers, just like my job" mindset, simply because it is wrong. They are MUCH closer to entertainers than they are 9 to 5ers.

Tom Hanks commands a huge salary for movies. The studio doesn't say "You will take what I offer or I'll cast someone else." because Tom Hanks draws a crowd. Without even hearing what the plot is, who the director is, who the co-stars are, or even the genre of movie, what would you choose... The new Tom Hanks movie, or the new Johnny Knoxville movie? Even if you choose Johnny Knoxville, you know damn well you are in the minority. Tom Hanks will bring in more people on his name alone, a lot more. So much more that he is worth the 10 - 20 million dollar difference in their salaries.

This works the same for football. Again, if you feel differently, that is fine, but you still have to recognize you are in the minority. When we picked up Drew Brees, season ticked sales soared. A few weeks later when we drafted Reggie, *BAM*, season tickets were sold out for the first time in a LOOONG time, and there is STILL a waiting list for them. Jay Cutler and Thomas Jones would not have caused that reaction because they don't have the star power. Not athletic skills and talents, because I would take Thomas Jones over Reggie every day of the week, but Jones would not have sold us out.

I wait tables, I have done it for ages, and I am DAMN good at it. Even so, I can't increase or decrease a restaurants business by 20% - 50% all by myself. I can make it run smoother, or more roughly... I can keep guests coming back, or keep them from coming back, but not in that quantity. When I get a job at a new restaurant the whole city is NOT a twitter about it. I have mad skills, but no star power. Thus I can't say open your books and show me why you can't pay me more than $2.13 an hour.

Hell, just take Reggie for example. Has Reggie earned his salary on the field? I'm going to go with "no" on that. I don't think he has quite played up to his salary. But that star power of his... That sold a lot of tickets. It sold a lot of jerseys, tee shirts, and hats. I'm sure Benson made a nice net profit off of that, even with Reggie's big salary.

Athletes equate to Actors/Entertainers, hourly employees do not equate to athletes. If you don't think that is "fair", well, tough **** comrade. Hell, even when the founding fathers said "All men are created equal." they said with with a wink and a nudge. I would even be willing to stipulate that all men are created equal, but that sure doesn't mean they stay that way.

st thomas 03-20-2011 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP (Post 290348)
Everyone needs to get rid of the "The owners are bosses and the players workers, just like my job" mindset, simply because it is wrong. They are MUCH closer to entertainers than they are 9 to 5ers.

Tom Hanks commands a huge salary for movies. The studio doesn't say "You will take what I offer or I'll cast someone else." because Tom Hanks draws a crowd. Without even hearing what the plot is, who the director is, who the co-stars are, or even the genre of movie, what would you choose... The new Tom Hanks movie, or the new Johnny Knoxville movie? Even if you choose Johnny Knoxville, you know damn well you are in the minority. Tom Hanks will bring in more people on his name alone, a lot more. So much more that he is worth the 10 - 20 million dollar difference in their salaries.

This works the same for football. Again, if you feel differently, that is fine, but you still have to recognize you are in the minority. When we picked up Drew Brees, season ticked sales soared. A few weeks later when we drafted Reggie, *BAM*, season tickets were sold out for the first time in a LOOONG time, and there is STILL a waiting list for them. Jay Cutler and Thomas Jones would not have caused that reaction because they don't have the star power. Not athletic skills and talents, because I would take Thomas Jones over Reggie every day of the week, but Jones would not have sold us out.

I wait tables, I have done it for ages, and I am DAMN good at it. Even so, I can't increase or decrease a restaurants business by 20% - 50% all by myself. I can make it run smoother, or more roughly... I can keep guests coming back, or keep them from coming back, but not in that quantity. When I get a job at a new restaurant the whole city is NOT a twitter about it. I have mad skills, but no star power. Thus I can't say open your books and show me why you can't pay me more than $2.13 an hour.

Hell, just take Reggie for example. Has Reggie earned his salary on the field? I'm going to go with "no" on that. I don't think he has quite played up to his salary. But that star power of his... That sold a lot of tickets. It sold a lot of jerseys, tee shirts, and hats. I'm sure Benson made a nice net profit off of that, even with Reggie's big salary.

Athletes equate to Actors/Entertainers, hourly employees do not equate to athletes. If you don't think that is "fair", well, tough **** comrade. Hell, even when the founding fathers said "All men are created equal." they said with with a wink and a nudge. I would even be willing to stipulate that all men are created equal, but that sure doesn't mean they stay that way.

nice way of putting it, good read

lynwood 03-21-2011 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP (Post 290348)
Everyone needs to get rid of the "The owners are bosses and the players workers, just like my job" mindset, simply because it is wrong. They are MUCH closer to entertainers than they are 9 to 5ers.

Tom Hanks commands a huge salary for movies. The studio doesn't say "You will take what I offer or I'll cast someone else." because Tom Hanks draws a crowd. Without even hearing what the plot is, who the director is, who the co-stars are, or even the genre of movie, what would you choose... The new Tom Hanks movie, or the new Johnny Knoxville movie? Even if you choose Johnny Knoxville, you know damn well you are in the minority. Tom Hanks will bring in more people on his name alone, a lot more. So much more that he is worth the 10 - 20 million dollar difference in their salaries.

This works the same for football. Again, if you feel differently, that is fine, but you still have to recognize you are in the minority. When we picked up Drew Brees, season ticked sales soared. A few weeks later when we drafted Reggie, *BAM*, season tickets were sold out for the first time in a LOOONG time, and there is STILL a waiting list for them. Jay Cutler and Thomas Jones would not have caused that reaction because they don't have the star power. Not athletic skills and talents, because I would take Thomas Jones over Reggie every day of the week, but Jones would not have sold us out.

I wait tables, I have done it for ages, and I am DAMN good at it. Even so, I can't increase or decrease a restaurants business by 20% - 50% all by myself. I can make it run smoother, or more roughly... I can keep guests coming back, or keep them from coming back, but not in that quantity. When I get a job at a new restaurant the whole city is NOT a twitter about it. I have mad skills, but no star power. Thus I can't say open your books and show me why you can't pay me more than $2.13 an hour.

Hell, just take Reggie for example. Has Reggie earned his salary on the field? I'm going to go with "no" on that. I don't think he has quite played up to his salary. But that star power of his... That sold a lot of tickets. It sold a lot of jerseys, tee shirts, and hats. I'm sure Benson made a nice net profit off of that, even with Reggie's big salary.

Athletes equate to Actors/Entertainers, hourly employees do not equate to athletes. If you don't think that is "fair", well, tough **** comrade. Hell, even when the founding fathers said "All men are created equal." they said with with a wink and a nudge. I would even be willing to stipulate that all men are created equal, but that sure doesn't mean they stay that way.

I dissagree. I do not equate the two simply based on JOB!

Football is a sport no matter how much you'd like to put it in an Oscar catagory. ESPN turned it into a TMZ showcase.

When Brees was signed we finally had a winning QB to lead a TEAM! That's what sold tickets. RB was the most spectacular Athlete coming out of college. That is what sold tickets.

And YES the Studios still DECIDE who to offer the part to. Same with the NFL owners. The "Actor" can take whats offered or refuse. Actors have been known to do that. You never hear of Actors turining down a part or Studios passing on an Actor because salary demand was too high?

I don't watch football for the Drama, I watch for the competition and love of the sport. I watch a movie for entertainment and when it's over I don't go out and buy a Team Edward T-shirt. Big Difference.

Actors,Waiters,Nurses,Office managers,etc... ARE all teh same. They all work for someone else. Difference is how they get paid. Hourly or Salary.

I think your view on this is very skewed. And if you don't like that then tough ***** commie.


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