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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by saintfan You mean when a player signs a contract he should honor that contract? No more holding out for more money? No more *****ing to the media about how he needs more dime? I would agree with ...

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Old 03-24-2011, 09:46 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
You mean when a player signs a contract he should honor that contract? No more holding out for more money? No more *****ing to the media about how he needs more dime?
I would agree with your point if the contracts that they are cornered into signing weren't so one sided. If the owners were obligated to honor a contract as well, I would agree more. As it is, 4 years is 4 years for the players, but the owners can sign that contract and then cut you before the ink dries.

And there are more specific cases I can't fault the players for either. Like Vincent Jackson. The best WR his team has had in years, hugely talented, highly successful, one of the most productive players on the team... But he had no star power when he signed his contract, and got a scrub contract and then played like an all-pro. I don't blame him for finally saying "Screw this, the kicker makes 3 times more money than I do, my 3rd string backup makes twice the money I do, pay me!".



Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
And I'm for old school Unions too, which is, sadly, not what most unions are today.
I'm totally with you there. When the unions were created they were sorely needed. Now they are a big part of what is hindering this country. Naturally, there are still unions that are exceptions to this, but for the most part...


Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
At the end of the day, the owners own and the players play. I don't get to ask my boss to see the books. Neither do you. We'd both of us be out of a job if we did.
What you or I get to do is totally irrelevant. It should not, and does not, have any bearing on the NFL players and owners because neither your nor I are as indispensable to our bosses as the NFL players are to the NFL.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:36 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP View Post
What you or I get to do is totally irrelevant. It should not, and does not, have any bearing on the NFL players and owners because neither your nor I are as indispensable to our bosses as the NFL players are to the NFL.
When the players and their families try to play the sympathy card and make themselves out to be simple down home-folks who sacrifice their blood, sweat, and tears to play a game they love without being properly compensated for, then it is relevant. They are blatantly and unashamedly shopping for public support with this letter, so if they are going to try and paint themselves as of the common fan, then the common fan has the right to make these comparisons.

I also disagree that the players are not indispensable. This is the same egotistical stance that the players are taking and thereby making the mistake of thinking they are bigger than the game. Let's face it, we don't follow the Saints because of Drew Brees, we follow them because they are the New Orleans Saints

The fact is that football is bigger than it ever has been. In college, TV ratings are good for even lesser ranked schools and through the roof for top ten programs. People are dying to watch football these days.

If the owners could somehow "wipe the slate clean" and cancel all the contracts for current players, then they cold hold open try-outs to all the Arena League, UFL, and CFL players. I would bet this "new" league would be viable and people would watch it if there was no NFL to fall back on. Id even bet that if given the choice between sticking by the current NFL players and thereby not being able to play professional football for a living or being the first stars of a new NFL system that the current college players would join as well.

The college players joining might be a dream, but my point is the NFL and the teams they include are much more historically important to the fans than the individual players who have worn the uniforms. Players come and go, but the colors never change (unless you are the Tampa Bay Bucs).
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:33 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL View Post
When the players and their families try to play the sympathy card and make themselves out to be simple down home-folks who sacrifice their blood, sweat, and tears to play a game they love without being properly compensated for, then it is relevant. They are blatantly and unashamedly shopping for public support with this letter, so if they are going to try and paint themselves as of the common fan, then the common fan has the right to make these comparisons.

I also disagree that the players are not indispensable. This is the same egotistical stance that the players are taking and thereby making the mistake of thinking they are bigger than the game. Let's face it, we don't follow the Saints because of Drew Brees, we follow them because they are the New Orleans Saints

The fact is that football is bigger than it ever has been. In college, TV ratings are good for even lesser ranked schools and through the roof for top ten programs. People are dying to watch football these days.

If the owners could somehow "wipe the slate clean" and cancel all the contracts for current players, then they cold hold open try-outs to all the Arena League, UFL, and CFL players. I would bet this "new" league would be viable and people would watch it if there was no NFL to fall back on. Id even bet that if given the choice between sticking by the current NFL players and thereby not being able to play professional football for a living or being the first stars of a new NFL system that the current college players would join as well.

The college players joining might be a dream, but my point is the NFL and the teams they include are much more historically important to the fans than the individual players who have worn the uniforms. Players come and go, but the colors never change (unless you are the Tampa Bay Bucs).
Good post and to the point!
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:58 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP View Post
I would agree with your point if the contracts that they are cornered into signing weren't so one sided. If the owners were obligated to honor a contract as well, I would agree more. As it is, 4 years is 4 years for the players, but the owners can sign that contract and then cut you before the ink dries.

And there are more specific cases I can't fault the players for either. Like Vincent Jackson. The best WR his team has had in years, hugely talented, highly successful, one of the most productive players on the team... But he had no star power when he signed his contract, and got a scrub contract and then played like an all-pro. I don't blame him for finally saying "Screw this, the kicker makes 3 times more money than I do, my 3rd string backup makes twice the money I do, pay me!".





I'm totally with you there. When the unions were created they were sorely needed. Now they are a big part of what is hindering this country. Naturally, there are still unions that are exceptions to this, but for the most part...




What you or I get to do is totally irrelevant. It should not, and does not, have any bearing on the NFL players and owners because neither your nor I are as indispensable to our bosses as the NFL players are to the NFL.
Lets discuss contracts. I know, you know, the owners know, and the player is well aware (through his agent if he's not savvy enough on his own) how things work. They negotiate these contracts with that in mind. It isn't like they get blind-sided. They aren't cornered into a damn thing. In my opinion that is ludicrous. Wouldn't either of us like to sign on with employer "X" and get half-a-mil before we stepped foot in the door? Damn skippy.

The fact is just about every damn one of them is over payed right out of college - and yes, even the league minimum guys. Even the league minimum guys are making enough to maintain two (or more) residences. Even the league minimum guys are through with their pay in to social security before the season even starts, and before they've played a down. Even the league minimum guys can afford to buy their cars outright. Even the league minimum guys go to work in first-class facilities and enjoy Cadillac heal care plans most people can only dream about. The rest of them sign deals worth many millions of dollars before they play their first down in the NFL. Yes, some guys out play their deals. You know what? I out performed my hiring position with Google. In three years I was promoted twice, but I had to wait until the promotion period before I could 'negotiate'. That's how it works in the 'real' world. Why should the NFL be excluded from the real world?

If these players think they're gonna out play their deals, then they should write a renegotiation clause into their contracts. If the owners go for it great, but if they don't, well, that's great too. The player is free to not sign, not play, and not get wealthy. Of course the players don't do this, because it's too risky. They might suck. This is why they hold out (and hold teams ransom) for every last penny they can get. It happens every summer, and it'll happen again this summer assuming there is actually any football.

The owners have to be able to protect themselves too. The players don't seem to get this. The owners have a right to make money too. Lots of it. They are the owners. That's the way it works.

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Old 03-24-2011, 04:10 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Srgt. Hulka View Post
I think Breesfan is part Honey Badger...Cause she don't give a **** about what Mrs. Fujita has to say! She just wants her football dammit.




I'm with you Mike...today is Honey Badger day.
i can't explain to all of u the happiness the honeybadger has brought to me in these times of need because of the greedy football world putting itself in front of fans and to all like breesfan who greatfully just don't give a s--t about no rich biatch whining in her wine glass of napas finest.
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:25 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by skymike View Post
touche, '66. I cant defend that.

For the record, since you're new, I'll tell you this. If the Saints had
moved to S.A, which is nearly 3 hours close to my house than New Orleans--- I would have quit the NFL forever. I'm dead serious.

The reason we bought season tix was to do our part to keep them in N.O.

I more blue collary than some people can stand, but I disagree about unions always being the working man's friend.

--but its a good discussion.
True, I know Unions aren't _always_ the working man's friend.
But I know management _never_ is. I've been on both sides
of the street, and no one in this world can ever convince me
that the interests of corporations/owners/management are
beneficial to the people on whose backs the companies are built.
That may have been true before about 1980, but since then
the only thing that trickles down is the fecal matter of bulls.

I'm with you that if they'd've moved the Saints,
I would have never watched the NFL again. I probably
would have had to've stopped watching TV during football
season because I'm sure the sorrow and the rage would
have driven me to drinking or hoarding or some other
equally terrible thing. So I'm really glad for
The NEW ORLEANS Saints.

I can think of one man who probably makes anyone
with a pen and a contract not sleep well at night:

Albert Haynesworth.
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:38 PM   #47
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I think, and I have suggested to Halo, that we should all change our Avatar on a pre-determined day, to some image of the Honey Badger. A show of solidarity. A statement to the NFL, owners and players alike, that we, the collective fan, much like the honey badger, don't give a ****. Just play some damn football.
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:46 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
I think, and I have suggested to Halo, that we should all change our Avatar on a pre-determined day, to some image of the Honey Badger. A show of solidarity. A statement to the NFL, owners and players alike, that we, the collective fan, much like the honey badger, don't give a ****. Just play some damn football.

Count me in!! Cause I'm angry and I don't give a ****!!

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Old 03-24-2011, 05:10 PM   #49
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the difference between B&G & the rest of the net

See? While discussion over the rest of the net devolves
into personal attacks and hatred, our deliberations take a creative,
more interesting turn. Congratulations, B&G, you have once again taken
a contentious, divisive topic, and turned it to something fuzzy.

not nice, mind you, but fuzzy, nevertheless.

The only negative I can see is that the cats have disappeared, for their own safety, no doubt.

Tripoli burns, our economy tanks, the end of the world looms, and
our favorite pastime threatens long hiatus, does this guy care?

Go ahead. Ask him point blank. How does he feel? Worried? Frightened? Remorseful? Melancholy? No!

Honeybadger he dont give a ****!


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Old 03-24-2011, 05:21 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by skymike View Post
See? While discussion over the rest of the net devolves
into personal attacks and hatred, our deliberations take a creative,
more interesting turn. Congratulations, B&G, you have once again taken
a contentious, divisive topic, and turned it to something fuzzy.

not nice, mind you, but fuzzy, nevertheless.

The only negative I can see is that the cats have disappeared, for their own safety, no doubt.

Tripoli burns, our economy tanks, the end of the world looms, and
our favorite pastime threatens long hiatus, does this guy care?

Go ahead. Ask him point blank. How does he feel? Worried? Frightened? Remorseful? Melancholy? No!

Honeybadger he dont give a ****!

That's right. He eats Cobras! Ewwwwwwww
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