Will Brooks break Saints record ???

saintz08 · 12-09-2003, 11:12 PM

The following is the All Time single season fumble record for the New Orleans Saints

The Leaders are :

Season
13 Aaron Brooks, 2001 (3 lost)
11 George Rogers, 1981 (6 lost)
11 Aaron Brooks, 2002 (5 lost)

Brooks current record is :

13 Aaron Brooks , 2003 (10 lost )

Will Brooks set a new Saints record ???

BillyC · 12-09-2003, 11:36 PM

Brett Favre Fumbles
1995 Green Bay 8
1996 Green Bay 10
1997 Green Bay 7
1998 Green Bay 8
1999 Green Bay 9
2000 Green Bay 9
2001 Green Bay 16
2002 Green Bay 10
2003 Green Bay 5

John Elway Fumbles
1983 DEN 6
1984 DEN 14
1985 DEN 7
1986 DEN 8
1987 DEN 2
1988 DEN 7
1989 DEN 9
1990 DEN 8
1991 DEN 12
1992 DEN 12
1993 DEN 8
1994 DEN 11
1995 DEN 9
1996 DEN 6
1997 DEN 11
1998 DEN 7

If anyone wants to make a case that Brooks should be cut for fumbling, you might want to rethink that arguement. Unless, you are willing to apply that same logic to Brett Favre and John Elway.

I understand that some folks are going to use everything in the world to say Brooks is terrible and this is something that has never happened in the history of the NFL, but it\'s nothing unique to Brooks. It\'s a problem that Brooks must correct, but certainly not one to calling for his head.

Just about all QB\'s lead there teams in fumbles each year. Some fumble more than others. It\'s correctable....

saintz08 · 12-09-2003, 11:43 PM

If anyone wants to make a case that Brooks should be cut for fumbling, you might want to rethink that arguement. Unless, you are willing to apply that same logic to Brett Favre and John Elway.

Sure

You adjust their totals to eliminate all games in cold , wet or snow conditions and we can have that conversation .

BillyC · 12-09-2003, 11:56 PM

If anyone wants to make a case that Brooks should be cut for fumbling, you might want to rethink that arguement. Unless, you are willing to apply that same logic to Brett Favre and John Elway.

Sure

You adjust their totals to eliminate all games in cold , wet or snow conditions and we can have that conversation .

Ok 08, let me shoot that down real quick

Jim Kelly Fumbles
1986 BUF 7
1987 BUF 6
1988 BUF 5
1989 BUF 6
1990 BUF 4
1991 BUF 6
1992 BUF 8
1993 BUF 7
1994 BUF 11
1995 BUF 7
1996 BUF 5

Ol\' Jim played in the worse place of all and didn\'t have the fumbling problem. It happens to some QB\'s and some it don\'t. Got any more grips with my arguement? Why can\'t you people see that other QB\'s have gone through this. I\'ll tell ya why. You don\'t like Brooks.

saintz08 · 12-10-2003, 12:23 AM

Why can\'t you people see that other QB\'s have gone through this. I\'ll tell ya why. You don\'t like Brooks.

\"He\'s got big hands. So it\'s not his hands. And he\'s strong. It\'s not his strength. There\'s got to be a reason.\"

But the bottom line, Haslett said, is winning. And Brooks\' 18 turnovers are the primary reason the Saints have a minus-6 giveaway-takeaway ratio, which is tied for 23rd in the league.

Ol Jim , I guess he had a grip on the situation .. :P

BillyC · 12-10-2003, 12:52 AM

I\'ll chew on that as well 08.

Now, here\'s something for you to chew on....

John Elway Fumbles first 3 years.
1983 DEN 6
1984 DEN 14
1985 DEN 7

John Elway passing stats first 3-years.

Year Team Comp Att Comp% Yds Yd/Att TD INT Sacked-Yds Rating
1983 Den 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 28- 218 54.9
1984 Den 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 24- 158 76.8
1985 Den 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 38- 307 70.2

Aaron Brooks Fumbles first 3 years
2000 New Orleans Saints 4
2001 New Orleans Saints 13
2002 New Orleans Saints 11

Aaron Brooks stats first 3 years.
2000 New Orleans Saints 8 5 194 113 58.2 1514 7.80 53 9 6 15/94 20 4 85.7
2001 New Orleans Saints 16 16 558 312 55.9 3832 6.87 63 26 22 50/330 55 13 76.4
2002 New Orleans Saints 16 16 528 283 53.6 3572 6.77 64 27 15 36/236 47 12 80.1

All I\'m saying is don\'t be so quick to write someone off. Elway was just as erratic as Brooks. There\'s no arguing that. It happens.

[Edited on 10/12/2003 by BillyC]

saintz08 · 12-10-2003, 04:28 AM

Elway is an interesting comparison .

Elway does not even gain control of the offense until the 85 season .

In 83 Elway is mop up boy to DeBerg
In 84 Elway is in a dog fight with Kubiak , although he eventually wins out he still split time with Kubiak

85 elway has the keys and is seated as the number 1 .

BlackandBlue · 12-10-2003, 08:10 AM

You CONSTANTLY compare Brooks to great quarterbacks, stating that everyone should be patient, and everyone has an agenda. It\'s old. Like the QB\'s that you compare Brooks to, old old old. This is a different era, thanks to free agency. The window of opportunity necessitates a quick turnaround on your investment. You no longer have the ability to wait for a player to mature, even though his progress from his first season to his last appears to be digressing.
08 posts a thread concerning whether or not AB would break the Saints single season record, and here you come with stats of **** that have nothing to do with the Saints. I\'ll wait for you to come back with one of the following steller comments:

\"If this were coming from someone that worked in the NFL, then I might actually take it into account\" or....
\" You, sir, have an agenda- keep drinking your 08-eraide (or tang-eraid, or whatever the hell it is ya\'ll are always referring to)\"
\"I have meaningless stats that prove you are wrong, even though the stats have nothing to do with the topic at hand.\"

Or maybe you reserve those strictly for WhoDat\'s posts. :P

[Edited on 10/12/2003 by BlackandBlue]

BillyC · 12-10-2003, 08:32 AM

B&B --

So, because Elway had his fumbles in the 80\'s this disqualifies any arguement between him and Brooks? Was fumbling more accecptable then? I make a very fair comparisoin. It\'s relevent and fair. I\'m not making any of this up. Just becuase you think the window of opportunity has closed had nothing to do with it. The fact is NO ONE knows what kind of career Brooks will go on to have. Brooks has regressed? In fumbles true enough. He has also improved in many areas. Completion percentage is up and would be even higher if not for ALL the dropped passes. He also leads the NFL in passes per interception ratio.

The comparison came from me, but the fumbling stats came from the players on the field. I had no hand in it. I find it funny that your arguement is so weak? Try being open minded. It\'s helped many QB\'s to further their careeers.

[Edited on 10/12/2003 by BillyC]

JOESAM2002 · 12-10-2003, 08:41 AM

Oh my God! Tired of the Brooks is great debate? Come on B&B, get on the program. As long as BillyC is a member here and as long as we have a board , this drivel will go on. I get tired of it too but, we, alas are powerless to change his mind. To Billy, AB is king, he will be in Canton next weekend for induction. (Actually, I have it on good authority, that AB will be giving a demonstration on walking on water at the RiverFront, next weekend.)

And to top all this crap off, you go and change my quote? What\'s up with that?

12-09-2003, 11:12 PM	#1
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? The following is the All Time single season fumble record for the New Orleans Saints The Leaders are : Season 13 Aaron Brooks, 2001 (3 lost) 11 George Rogers, 1981 (6 lost) 11 Aaron Brooks, 2002 (5 lost) Brooks current record is : 13 Aaron Brooks , 2003 (10 lost ) Will Brooks set a new Saints record ???
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

12-09-2003, 11:36 PM	#2
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? Brett Favre Fumbles 1995 Green Bay 8 1996 Green Bay 10 1997 Green Bay 7 1998 Green Bay 8 1999 Green Bay 9 2000 Green Bay 9 2001 Green Bay 16 2002 Green Bay 10 2003 Green Bay 5 John Elway Fumbles 1983 DEN 6 1984 DEN 14 1985 DEN 7 1986 DEN 8 1987 DEN 2 1988 DEN 7 1989 DEN 9 1990 DEN 8 1991 DEN 12 1992 DEN 12 1993 DEN 8 1994 DEN 11 1995 DEN 9 1996 DEN 6 1997 DEN 11 1998 DEN 7 If anyone wants to make a case that Brooks should be cut for fumbling, you might want to rethink that arguement. Unless, you are willing to apply that same logic to Brett Favre and John Elway. I understand that some folks are going to use everything in the world to say Brooks is terrible and this is something that has never happened in the history of the NFL, but it\'s nothing unique to Brooks. It\'s a problem that Brooks must correct, but certainly not one to calling for his head. Just about all QB\'s lead there teams in fumbles each year. Some fumble more than others. It\'s correctable....
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-09-2003, 11:43 PM	#3
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? If anyone wants to make a case that Brooks should be cut for fumbling, you might want to rethink that arguement. Unless, you are willing to apply that same logic to Brett Favre and John Elway. Sure You adjust their totals to eliminate all games in cold , wet or snow conditions and we can have that conversation .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

12-09-2003, 11:56 PM	#4
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? If anyone wants to make a case that Brooks should be cut for fumbling, you might want to rethink that arguement. Unless, you are willing to apply that same logic to Brett Favre and John Elway. Sure You adjust their totals to eliminate all games in cold , wet or snow conditions and we can have that conversation . Ok 08, let me shoot that down real quick Jim Kelly Fumbles 1986 BUF 7 1987 BUF 6 1988 BUF 5 1989 BUF 6 1990 BUF 4 1991 BUF 6 1992 BUF 8 1993 BUF 7 1994 BUF 11 1995 BUF 7 1996 BUF 5 Ol\' Jim played in the worse place of all and didn\'t have the fumbling problem. It happens to some QB\'s and some it don\'t. Got any more grips with my arguement? Why can\'t you people see that other QB\'s have gone through this. I\'ll tell ya why. You don\'t like Brooks.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-10-2003, 12:23 AM	#5
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? Why can\'t you people see that other QB\'s have gone through this. I\'ll tell ya why. You don\'t like Brooks. \"He\'s got big hands. So it\'s not his hands. And he\'s strong. It\'s not his strength. There\'s got to be a reason.\" But the bottom line, Haslett said, is winning. And Brooks\' 18 turnovers are the primary reason the Saints have a minus-6 giveaway-takeaway ratio, which is tied for 23rd in the league. Ol Jim , I guess he had a grip on the situation .. :P
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

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12-10-2003, 12:52 AM	#6
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? I\'ll chew on that as well 08. Now, here\'s something for you to chew on.... John Elway Fumbles first 3 years. 1983 DEN 6 1984 DEN 14 1985 DEN 7 John Elway passing stats first 3-years. Year Team Comp Att Comp% Yds Yd/Att TD INT Sacked-Yds Rating 1983 Den 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 28- 218 54.9 1984 Den 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 24- 158 76.8 1985 Den 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 38- 307 70.2 Aaron Brooks Fumbles first 3 years 2000 New Orleans Saints 4 2001 New Orleans Saints 13 2002 New Orleans Saints 11 Aaron Brooks stats first 3 years. 2000 New Orleans Saints 8 5 194 113 58.2 1514 7.80 53 9 6 15/94 20 4 85.7 2001 New Orleans Saints 16 16 558 312 55.9 3832 6.87 63 26 22 50/330 55 13 76.4 2002 New Orleans Saints 16 16 528 283 53.6 3572 6.77 64 27 15 36/236 47 12 80.1 All I\'m saying is don\'t be so quick to write someone off. Elway was just as erratic as Brooks. There\'s no arguing that. It happens. [Edited on 10/12/2003 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-10-2003, 04:28 AM	#7
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? Elway is an interesting comparison . Elway does not even gain control of the offense until the 85 season . In 83 Elway is mop up boy to DeBerg In 84 Elway is in a dog fight with Kubiak , although he eventually wins out he still split time with Kubiak 85 elway has the keys and is seated as the number 1 .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

12-10-2003, 08:10 AM	#8
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? You CONSTANTLY compare Brooks to great quarterbacks, stating that everyone should be patient, and everyone has an agenda. It\'s old. Like the QB\'s that you compare Brooks to, old old old. This is a different era, thanks to free agency. The window of opportunity necessitates a quick turnaround on your investment. You no longer have the ability to wait for a player to mature, even though his progress from his first season to his last appears to be digressing. 08 posts a thread concerning whether or not AB would break the Saints single season record, and here you come with stats of **** that have nothing to do with the Saints. I\'ll wait for you to come back with one of the following steller comments: \"If this were coming from someone that worked in the NFL, then I might actually take it into account\" or.... \" You, sir, have an agenda- keep drinking your 08-eraide (or tang-eraid, or whatever the hell it is ya\'ll are always referring to)\" \"I have meaningless stats that prove you are wrong, even though the stats have nothing to do with the topic at hand.\" Or maybe you reserve those strictly for WhoDat\'s posts. :P [Edited on 10/12/2003 by BlackandBlue]
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

12-10-2003, 08:32 AM	#9
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? B&B -- So, because Elway had his fumbles in the 80\'s this disqualifies any arguement between him and Brooks? Was fumbling more accecptable then? I make a very fair comparisoin. It\'s relevent and fair. I\'m not making any of this up. Just becuase you think the window of opportunity has closed had nothing to do with it. The fact is NO ONE knows what kind of career Brooks will go on to have. Brooks has regressed? In fumbles true enough. He has also improved in many areas. Completion percentage is up and would be even higher if not for ALL the dropped passes. He also leads the NFL in passes per interception ratio. The comparison came from me, but the fumbling stats came from the players on the field. I had no hand in it. I find it funny that your arguement is so weak? Try being open minded. It\'s helped many QB\'s to further their careeers. [Edited on 10/12/2003 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-10-2003, 08:41 AM	#10
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? Oh my God! Tired of the Brooks is great debate? Come on B&B, get on the program. As long as BillyC is a member here and as long as we have a board , this drivel will go on. I get tired of it too but, we, alas are powerless to change his mind. To Billy, AB is king, he will be in Canton next weekend for induction. (Actually, I have it on good authority, that AB will be giving a demonstration on walking on water at the RiverFront, next weekend.) And to top all this crap off, you go and change my quote? What\'s up with that?
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.