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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; All these are a direct result of coaching: 1.Tends to hold the ball too long wating on receivers to come open. Dosen\'t anticipate routes 2. Reading defenses: If the primary receiver isn\'t open, he doesn\'t progress through his reads quick ...

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Old 12-11-2003, 12:34 PM   #11
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An unbiased look at..............


All these are a direct result of coaching:

1.Tends to hold the ball too long wating on receivers to come open. Dosen\'t anticipate routes
2. Reading defenses: If the primary receiver isn\'t open, he doesn\'t progress through his reads quick enough
3. Doesn\'t display the best touch on the ball. Tends to put too much heat on the ball, when he should just float the ball over a defenders head
These are the result of not getting the coaching he needs:

1. Not enough pocket awareness. Doesn\'t feel pressure and doesn\'t step up in the pocket enough. Tends do drift back too much into the outside pass rush

I’ve always said that this coaching staff is very weak!! Trying to make him a “pocket” passer was the biggest mistake. McNabb, McNair, Plummer and even Vick will run when needs to and will stay in the pocket when need to. The positives you’ve listed are very true, he has improved. Yes the fumbles hurt but that proberly a one time glitch in his matrix. You will see a better a Brooks. WE JUST GET OUT COACH WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT. Coaches put their team in the best position to win. Lately Haz hasn’t done that.
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Old 12-11-2003, 05:00 PM   #12
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You know Billy, I will be the first to admit that I can\'t tell you what the answer is with AB. I just know that he\'s not panning out and that\'s why I would look to go another direction. You very well be right and I may be eating crow next season while AB leads the Saints to the Super Bowl and makes a little trip to Honolulu himself. You know what? It would be the best tasting crow I ever had.

Still, the most recent trend I\'ve seen is that the media in NO now wants to compare Brooks to the other bums we had running the show before him. I understand, and I have said before that he is much more talented than the Billy Joes and Dave Wilsons of old. But I can\'t ever remember being this upset with a QB before. Maybe it\'s b/c those guys were poo and we knew it, and were ready for shotty play - whereas we expect Brooks to be better. I don\'t know. What I do know is that saying Brooks isn\'t as bad as those other guys isn\'t a great argument to me. So he\'s less bad than other guys we\'ve had? That doesn\'t necessarily mean he\'s good.

If you want a definite answer as to what AB needs to do to get better, I can\'t tell you. I have some suggestions, but I\'m not sure. If you just want to know why I don\'t support him there are two major reasons. First, I believe that he lacks the mental capacity to be great in this league. The great ones are always \"students of the game.\" Brooks seems like a gifted athlete with a special ed brain. I just don\'t see him as having what it takes to put it all together in the mental arena.

The second is simply performance. It seems that all this coaching, coddling, special treatment, conversations with greats like Joe Montana, leadership school, etc. etc. etc. haven\'t made a difference when it comes to game time. One week its poor throws, the next months its fumbling, after that it\'s throwing off the back foot, then it\'s bad reads, or whatever. My point is, he just can\'t get it all together. Brooks rarely plays one complete game where he shows he\'s really got it all down. And I\'m talking one game, not an entire season. Missed reads happen, so do fumbles, INTs, poor throws, etc. etc. etc., but other QBs seem to find a way to overcome it. With Brooks, it always seems that his mistakes kill us and he can never regain his composure. I watch the games waiting for the shoe to drop.

[Edited on 11/12/2003 by WhoDat]

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 12-11-2003, 05:19 PM   #13
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WhoDat --

Fair enough. The truth is that the glass could be looked at as half full or empty. I think to say Brooks hasn\'t improved is just WRONG. Has he been INCONSISTANT? YES!! Has he had a fumbling problem? YES !!

You\'ve got one side that say\'s he will never make it. They\'re wrong. You\'ve got the othe side saying he will make it. They\'re wrong. The jury is still out.

One thing is for sure though. He needs to start showing he CAN be consistant and cut way down on the mistakes. When is enough time enough? Well, that\'s anyone\'s guess. I say he needs to start showing progress right away.

I thank you for your honest take on it though.

[Edited on 11/12/2003 by BillyC]

[Edited on 11/12/2003 by BillyC]
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Old 12-11-2003, 05:35 PM   #14
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No problem Bill. Now let me ask you a question. You say that now is the time that he has to START to show that he can be consistent. Does that mean he has to be consistent now? If so wouldn\'t that mean that you think enough is enough now? B/c it\'s put up or shut up time right? I\'m just asking. Also, if this isn\'t the case, then what have the last three and a half seasons been? Charity? Is three and a half sesaons not enough time to expect your QB to START showing consistent play?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 12-11-2003, 05:42 PM   #15
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Well, I think you have to put Brooks\' play into some kind of context. I mean, other players can make a QB look both good and bad. Last year I think the receivers made Brooks look good. This year I think they make him look bad. I\'m not as down on Brooks as some of you are. I see a lot of progress in spite of the mistakes. Right NOW, I want to see him hold on to the damn ball. If he can\'t do that then he needs to be benched. After that WhoDat, I don\'t know.

I will say this. The time is running out. But I can\'t give you a defintive answer as to when. It\'s one of those things that is just going to have to play itself out on the field.
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Old 12-11-2003, 05:49 PM   #16
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I prefer to view the glass as being half-assed
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Old 12-11-2003, 05:50 PM   #17
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I just wanta comment on #1 :

\"Is this the straw that broke the camels back?\"........ YES! I`m over AB!
AB has some good and bad qualities. I think Billy listed them fairly, BUT still something is missing. And that one thing is confidence. (along with not being very bright).
I believe AB has amazing skill, but it`s not likely he will ever progress past what we`ve seen thus far because he lacks the confidence to take this team to the next level. AB will continue to let us down is crucial games when we really need him to shine. I`m just disgusted that we wasted another season waiting on Brooks to be the kind of QB that this talented offense deserves.
I`ve got one word for Haz..... NEXT!

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Old 12-11-2003, 06:30 PM   #18
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Student of the game? Good plan to work from. I think WhoDat may have hit on something with the special ed thing. Just suppose this is true. Wouldn\'t that lead to the problems AB has had? Lack of concentration,problems reading defenses and the like. AB is perhaps the most talented QB the Saints have had in years, he just can\'t seem to do anything with it. All the seminars and schools won\'t teach anybody a thing if they have nowhere to put the information. Just a thought.
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Old 12-11-2003, 08:31 PM   #19
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I think WhoDat may have hit on something with the special ed thing. Just suppose this is true.
I\'m sure I\'m going to leave myself open to some criticism here, because I know most people beleive in a highly intelligent QB.

First off all there have been plenty of \"Smart\" QB\'s that have had all the physical ability and IQ to be a superstar QB. But, these \"intelligent\" QB\'s were labled as not being able to read defenses, or consistantly being inconsisant. Players such as Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, David Klingler and Andre Ware come to mind. I don\'t think anyone can argue the fact that these guys didn\'t have all the physical ability in the world. What does that leave as the reason they weren\'t successful in the NFL? To me, that would only leave the mental part of the game. Well, all of these players were tested for mental capacity coming out of college and all were labeled as very intelligent QB\'s. Which is why they were drafted in the first round. Yet, they still didn\'t cut it.

I\'ll bet that there were fan\'s that thought these guys were less than intelligent when they played for their perspective teams. I hadly think that was the case though. Sometimes it might be coaching that\'s the problem. Especailly when you see some of the earlier busts go on to have productive careers later on down the road. Or, sometimes organizations simply give up on a QB too early.


Now, let me say right now, I don\'t know how smart or dumb Aaron Brooks is. I just don\'t buy into the arguement that he is STUPID.



[Edited on 12/12/2003 by BillyC]
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Old 12-11-2003, 09:53 PM   #20
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I\'m not saying he\'s stupid. I\'m not even saying he\'s mentally backrupt, but his account might be badly overdrawn. As for the others you present, I haven\'t been watching them for three years, so, I\'m not even going to try to equate them.
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