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For those of you sick of reading about Aaron Brooks. Stop reading NOW!!


This is really for WhoDat and Gator, but anyone is welcome to comment. I'm also going to ask some questions and I'd like for you to give me your honest answers.



I can handle the truth. Really I can. But, show me the whole truth. Nothing but the truth. So help you (and me) God.

This might be beating a dead horse here guys, but I'd like to approach this subject one more time. I'm going to make some arguements as to why I think Brooks deserves to be our QB and how I think this whole thing has got blowed out of proportion after the Bucs game Sunday.

Here's some observations.

1. No one was really saying to cut Brooks before the Bucs game. Now there are fans coming out the woodwork wanting him gone. Even the people that were on the fence seem to want him gone after watching the Bucs game. Could this be an overreaction or was this the straw that broke the camel's back? Be honest.

2. It has been stated that Brooks has regressed. If not for the fumbles would that statement be true? Isn't the real truth that Brooks has progressed in the passing game? He does lead the league in fewest interceptions and most passes per inteception ratio. Also, the receivers have hurt him, more than they have hepled him. I think I can honestly say that they have dropped more easy passes than they have caught difficult passes. Or at the very worse it's a push.

3. When you say that Brooks needs to be cut because of turnovers, and even some of the division leaders have MORE turnovers than him. Do you think it's fair to say get rid of Brooks and make excuses for those other QB's. (not saying you are making excuses)


I'll say right now that I am not pleased with Brooks fumbling the ball. Everyone knows how big of a Brooks supporter I am. I'm asking some honest questions, because it's possible I might not want to see some of his flaws. To be fair I'm now going to list what I think are Brooks biggest flaws.

Flaws:

1. Tends to hold the ball too long wating on receivers to come open. Dosen't anticipate routes.

2. Not enough pocket awareness. Doesn't feel pressure and doesn't step up in the pocket enough. Tends do drift back too much into the outside pass rush.

3. Reading defenses: If the primary receiver isn't open, he doesn't progress through his reads quick enough.

4. Not vocal enough. Needs to hold everyone accountable on the field. Also needs to lead by example. By that, I mean he needs to hold himself accountable for his mistakes.

5. Doesn't display the best touch on the ball. Tends to put too much heat on the ball, when he should just float the ball over a defenders head.

I have not listed every flaw. I have listed the ones I feel are the most important ones. Not neccessarily in order.

Now I am going to list his positives:

1. Can make all the throws that some QB's can't.

2. Very mobile and can turn a busted play into a big play.

3. Can thread the needle in tight coverage.

4. Has shown he can lead a team from behind on several occassions.

5. Doesn't throw into double coverage much. Don't have to worry about him throwing many intercetions.

6.has the ability to beat you with his legs. Has rushed for over 100-yards in one game. Doesn't run much anyomore but he can.

I have not listed all the postives, but I have listed the ones I feel are more important.


Comments: I think the toughest thing for a QB to learn is reading defenses. Most young QB's throw into double coverage and have the ball intercepted too much. I feel like Aaron has progressed as far as making dangerous throws. That I feel is the # 1 thing a QB needs to do in order not to hurt his team.

At the sametime he struggles progressing through his reads. He should be further along but I think he has progressed somewhat in this area but not enough. I also have seen Aaron make several touch passes this year. It's not like he can't do it, but he seems intent on throwing line drives. He and his coaches need to work on this.

All in all I think Brooks has progreesed in the passing game. The fumbles is something he's got to correct. I think this is very correctable and is no reason at this point to cut him. Maybe going to the bench would be good for him.

For those of you who think he's had enough time, there have clearly been other QB's that have done worse than Brooks at the same point in their careers. So, my opinion is that Brooks should remain the starter and also have an open competition at the beginning of next season. It's fair and I feel it's the best thing for the team, just in case Brooks doesn't get it together. Now, I say anyone that is saying we should cut Brooks now, is clearly jumping the gun.

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I never meant to imply that you said Brooks should be cut. I asked some honest questions, looking for some honest answers. This is on the up and up. Kind of like when you ask me questions. I\'ll not make that mistake again. Excuse me!!

Now that I read the post, I see why you would think that I did say that. My bad. That part was for WhoDat, who has said he would like to see Brooks gone. At least that\'s what I remember. This isn\'t to say anyone is right or wrong. That cannot be proven. I just wanted some honest answers on some questions. That was all.......

But I\'ll give it up. No more Brooks debates.



[Edited on 11/12/2003 by BillyC]

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Well, for starters, I never said that we should CUT Brooks. I think he needs to be benched right now. I think the Saints would probably be smart to trade him and find another QB to be the future of this team. I could be wrong, but the guy is yet to prove that to me thus far.

I\'ve been saying that he isn\'t the right guy since week 6 or 7 last season. We were 5 or 6 and 1 at that point and I got BLASTED for those comments. The Bucs game is just another example in an ever-growing list for me. Brooks played us out of the playoffs this year. He did the same last year. Funny thing is, I was really impressed with his play for the first 28 minutes. I stated a couple of times to people watching the game with me that he was playing great and I may have some crow to eat. But, as always, he found a way to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory and make me kick myself for questioning myself again. There may be fans coming out of the woodwork now Billy, but if this is really aimed at me and Gator, you should know that the Bucs game isn\'t really \"making\" the decision for either of us. We\'ve both felt this way for a while.

If a frog had wings it would bump it\'s a$$ (or is tushy more appropriate Cold Fusion?) when it hopped. You want to look at Brooks, well let\'s look at the WHOLE Brooks. Last year would Brooks not have been a top 5 QB if it had not been for the backpeddling and dangerous throws that he consistently made? Let\'s take IFs out of this conversation. I\'ll bet that Brooks won\'t have a fumbling problem next year, but something else will go wrong. I can\'t imagine what, but it will. I thought Brooks had really finally turned it around at the beginning of this season when he was efficient and accurate. I was wrong. He is the same old Brooks. Next year it may be a twisted ankle that makes it hard for him to plant and the ball will sail on him, or he may get happy feet, or whatever, but I\'d bet that it will be something.

I think you\'re looking at my argument too myopically Billy. I\'m not saying that Brooks\' only problem is turnovers. That\'s the BIG one right now. My problem with Brooks is that there is ALWAYS a problem or set of problems that keeps him from being the top 5 QB that we\'re paying him to be - and that has a lot to do to me with why this team can\'t get over the hump. I\'m not saying to trade Brooks away b/c he fumbles. I\'m saying that Brooks is getting paid $36 million to be the 13th or 15th best QB in the league. That\'s too much. I also believe that his potential won\'t materialize in New Orleans. Maybe it will somewhere else, but not here. The Saints need to look elsewhere. Again, I could be wrong, I just don\'t see it.


On other note:

I have to disagree with both of these. He hasn\'t beat anyone with his legs since 2000. Has he rushed for more than 40 yards in a game this season? He is no longer a running QB, and is not a realy threat. He does have escapability, which can allow him to buy time in the pocket, but in terms of running with the ball, Brad Johnson can run in the open field just as well as Brooks at this point, if you ask me.

As for not throwing into double coverage... yeah, OK. You\'re telling me that he still doesn\'t lock onto Horn or whomever the number 1 route is and gun it in that direction? Sure he does. He doesn\'t do it off of his back foot anymore, so his throws don\'t look as dangerous, but yes, he still does that.

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OK. That\'s what I wanted to know. Thanks !!

But, I am a little confused about these 2 statements. They seem to contradict one another?

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I don\'t see where the confusion is. The last statement says that the Saints need to look elsewhere to solve the QB issue, it states nothing to the effect of, \"Brooks needs to be cut.\"

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Well............

True enough he didn\'t specifically say he needs to be cut. But, the \"spirit\" of the post would suggest that.

I mean if he says Brooks will never reach his potential in new orleans but maybe somewhere else. I just have to read between the lines. I could be wrong about that though.

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There is more than one way to get rid of a QB, or any player, without CUTTING him. Cutting Brooks would cost this team money and we would be giving up a player of at least marginal value for nothing. If we trade him, we get something in return. If we restructure his contract and he gets a big pay cut and is paid 3 million instead of 36 million then he is a good value. I mean, can you honestly tell me that AB is worth $33 million more than Bouman? No way!

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Could it mean a trade? :P

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So you admit to reading more into that post than was actually there?

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Just looking for a little clarification. Now I have that.

You make the statement that Brooks would be a good value if he took a cut in pay. Would that be as a backup or as a starter?

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All these are a direct result of coaching:

1.Tends to hold the ball too long wating on receivers to come open. Dosen\'t anticipate routes
2. Reading defenses: If the primary receiver isn\'t open, he doesn\'t progress through his reads quick enough
3. Doesn\'t display the best touch on the ball. Tends to put too much heat on the ball, when he should just float the ball over a defenders head
These are the result of not getting the coaching he needs:

1. Not enough pocket awareness. Doesn\'t feel pressure and doesn\'t step up in the pocket enough. Tends do drift back too much into the outside pass rush

I’ve always said that this coaching staff is very weak!! Trying to make him a “pocket” passer was the biggest mistake. McNabb, McNair, Plummer and even Vick will run when needs to and will stay in the pocket when need to. The positives you’ve listed are very true, he has improved. Yes the fumbles hurt but that proberly a one time glitch in his matrix. You will see a better a Brooks. WE JUST GET OUT COACH WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT. Coaches put their team in the best position to win. Lately Haz hasn’t done that.

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You know Billy, I will be the first to admit that I can\'t tell you what the answer is with AB. I just know that he\'s not panning out and that\'s why I would look to go another direction. You very well be right and I may be eating crow next season while AB leads the Saints to the Super Bowl and makes a little trip to Honolulu himself. You know what? It would be the best tasting crow I ever had.

Still, the most recent trend I\'ve seen is that the media in NO now wants to compare Brooks to the other bums we had running the show before him. I understand, and I have said before that he is much more talented than the Billy Joes and Dave Wilsons of old. But I can\'t ever remember being this upset with a QB before. Maybe it\'s b/c those guys were poo and we knew it, and were ready for shotty play - whereas we expect Brooks to be better. I don\'t know. What I do know is that saying Brooks isn\'t as bad as those other guys isn\'t a great argument to me. So he\'s less bad than other guys we\'ve had? That doesn\'t necessarily mean he\'s good.

If you want a definite answer as to what AB needs to do to get better, I can\'t tell you. I have some suggestions, but I\'m not sure. If you just want to know why I don\'t support him there are two major reasons. First, I believe that he lacks the mental capacity to be great in this league. The great ones are always \"students of the game.\" Brooks seems like a gifted athlete with a special ed brain. I just don\'t see him as having what it takes to put it all together in the mental arena.

The second is simply performance. It seems that all this coaching, coddling, special treatment, conversations with greats like Joe Montana, leadership school, etc. etc. etc. haven\'t made a difference when it comes to game time. One week its poor throws, the next months its fumbling, after that it\'s throwing off the back foot, then it\'s bad reads, or whatever. My point is, he just can\'t get it all together. Brooks rarely plays one complete game where he shows he\'s really got it all down. And I\'m talking one game, not an entire season. Missed reads happen, so do fumbles, INTs, poor throws, etc. etc. etc., but other QBs seem to find a way to overcome it. With Brooks, it always seems that his mistakes kill us and he can never regain his composure. I watch the games waiting for the shoe to drop.

[Edited on 11/12/2003 by WhoDat]

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WhoDat --

Fair enough. The truth is that the glass could be looked at as half full or empty. I think to say Brooks hasn\'t improved is just WRONG. Has he been INCONSISTANT? YES!! Has he had a fumbling problem? YES !!

You\'ve got one side that say\'s he will never make it. They\'re wrong. You\'ve got the othe side saying he will make it. They\'re wrong. The jury is still out.

One thing is for sure though. He needs to start showing he CAN be consistant and cut way down on the mistakes. When is enough time enough? Well, that\'s anyone\'s guess. I say he needs to start showing progress right away.

I thank you for your honest take on it though.

[Edited on 11/12/2003 by BillyC]

[Edited on 11/12/2003 by BillyC]

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No problem Bill. Now let me ask you a question. You say that now is the time that he has to START to show that he can be consistent. Does that mean he has to be consistent now? If so wouldn\'t that mean that you think enough is enough now? B/c it\'s put up or shut up time right? I\'m just asking. Also, if this isn\'t the case, then what have the last three and a half seasons been? Charity? Is three and a half sesaons not enough time to expect your QB to START showing consistent play?

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Well, I think you have to put Brooks\' play into some kind of context. I mean, other players can make a QB look both good and bad. Last year I think the receivers made Brooks look good. This year I think they make him look bad. I\'m not as down on Brooks as some of you are. I see a lot of progress in spite of the mistakes. Right NOW, I want to see him hold on to the damn ball. If he can\'t do that then he needs to be benched. After that WhoDat, I don\'t know.

I will say this. The time is running out. But I can\'t give you a defintive answer as to when. It\'s one of those things that is just going to have to play itself out on the field.

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I prefer to view the glass as being half-assed

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I just wanta comment on #1 :

\"Is this the straw that broke the camels back?\"........ YES! I`m over AB!
AB has some good and bad qualities. I think Billy listed them fairly, BUT still something is missing. And that one thing is confidence. (along with not being very bright).
I believe AB has amazing skill, but it`s not likely he will ever progress past what we`ve seen thus far because he lacks the confidence to take this team to the next level. AB will continue to let us down is crucial games when we really need him to shine. I`m just disgusted that we wasted another season waiting on Brooks to be the kind of QB that this talented offense deserves.
I`ve got one word for Haz..... NEXT!

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Student of the game? Good plan to work from. I think WhoDat may have hit on something with the special ed thing. Just suppose this is true. Wouldn\'t that lead to the problems AB has had? Lack of concentration,problems reading defenses and the like. AB is perhaps the most talented QB the Saints have had in years, he just can\'t seem to do anything with it. All the seminars and schools won\'t teach anybody a thing if they have nowhere to put the information. Just a thought.

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I\'m sure I\'m going to leave myself open to some criticism here, because I know most people beleive in a highly intelligent QB.

First off all there have been plenty of \"Smart\" QB\'s that have had all the physical ability and IQ to be a superstar QB. But, these \"intelligent\" QB\'s were labled as not being able to read defenses, or consistantly being inconsisant. Players such as Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, David Klingler and Andre Ware come to mind. I don\'t think anyone can argue the fact that these guys didn\'t have all the physical ability in the world. What does that leave as the reason they weren\'t successful in the NFL? To me, that would only leave the mental part of the game. Well, all of these players were tested for mental capacity coming out of college and all were labeled as very intelligent QB\'s. Which is why they were drafted in the first round. Yet, they still didn\'t cut it.

I\'ll bet that there were fan\'s that thought these guys were less than intelligent when they played for their perspective teams. I hadly think that was the case though. Sometimes it might be coaching that\'s the problem. Especailly when you see some of the earlier busts go on to have productive careers later on down the road. Or, sometimes organizations simply give up on a QB too early.


Now, let me say right now, I don\'t know how smart or dumb Aaron Brooks is. I just don\'t buy into the arguement that he is STUPID.



[Edited on 12/12/2003 by BillyC]

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I\'m not saying he\'s stupid. I\'m not even saying he\'s mentally backrupt, but his account might be badly overdrawn. As for the others you present, I haven\'t been watching them for three years, so, I\'m not even going to try to equate them.

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You definately have a way with words Joe. Overdrawn huh? LMAO... :D

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Two things.

1. I don\'t remember any of those guys being labeled as smart. I\'m not saying they weren\'t, but I sure don\'t remember. Can you provide proof that they were labeled smart?

2. Intelligence in life and intelligence on a football field may be different things. I\'ve never played at that level so I can\'t speak to it. Brooks may not be stupid in general, but he seems to be a football dolt to me.

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[Edited on 12/12/2003 by BillyC]

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Ok, I was kind of curious about what everyone else thought about this. If Brooks did get traded or cut and went to another team do you think he would ever do good again? I mean if we\'re to believe everything the coach fed to us a fans do you think his bruised ego would let him recover enough to reach his potential with any other coach. I mean, you have to admit, Haslett has spoon-fed him more than any other coach will do. And I mean this in all sincerity, not as a stab at Brooks.

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Maybe that\'s part of the problem. Hopefully after Haslett\'s statements this week, Brooks will take it upon himself to win the game a little more than he has recently. He\'s been spouting coach-isms like \"it\'s a team game\" all year. That may be the right thing for a coach to say, but the QB has to believe it\'s his OWN responsibility to lead the team to victory on the field. If Brooks starts playing his game instead of the game he thinks the coaches want him to play, I guarantee better results.

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It\'s going to be very interesting for me to see how Brooks responds to the threat of being benched. This is the first time he\'s had to worry about that. I think it\'s absolutely the best thing Haslett could have done, regardless of how Brooks responds.

I\'ve seen Brooks respond well in criticial situations more times than not, which all the comeback vitories would prove. I think he\'ll respond well. If not, then he needs to go to the bench and maybe it will help him mature and grow as a QB.



[Edited on 14/12/2003 by BillyC]