Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

Dan Reeves
| 1997 atl 7-9
| 1998 atl 14-2 Superbowl (lost)
| 1999 atl 5-11
| 2000 atl 4-12
| 2001 atl 7-9
| 2002 atl 9-6-1 one playoff win.
| 2003 atl 3-10

Jim Fassel
1997 nyg 10-5 playoff (lost)
| 1998 nyg 8-8
| 1999 nyg 7-9
| 2000 nyg 12-4 Super Bowl loss
| 2001 nyg 7-9
| 2002 nyg 10-6 playoff loss
| 2003 nyg 4-9

Jim Haslett
2000 nor 10-6 1 playoff win
| 2001 nor 7-9
| 2002 nor 9-7
| 2003 nor 6-7

I've have supported Jim Haslett but recently have decided he needs to go. Being the loyal person that I am, I felt like I needed to justify my decisoin and make sure I'm not having some kind of knee jerk reaction ( and we all know that doesn't happen on this board)

I looked at other coaches that have either been fired or probably will be fired. You have Dan Reeves that took the Falcons to the Super Bowl and made the playoffs last year. But, he get's fired this year. Then you have Fassel who has also done better and made the playoffs last year and he's more than likely gone after this year.

Then you have Jim Haslett. Jim won one playoff game in his first year and then went on to have one more winning season (9-7 no playoffs) While I don't feel comparing the 3-coaches isa a deciding factor in getting rid of Jim Haslett, one thing is clear and that's some teams won't tolerate losing or average teams.

But, the deciding factor I feel Jim Haslett must go are these.

1. Team doesn't have and never had any discipline.
2. Team has constantly underachieved.
3. Players don't progress under his coaching.
4. Finishes with late season collapses.

Now, to be fair. I'm going to list his positives.

1. I can't really think of any and the sad thing is I'm being serious. If anyone can think of any, please list them.





[Edited on 12/12/2003 by BillyC]

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

He found Deuce! Of course even a blind hog can find an acorn.

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

HAZ NEEDS TO GO - SIMPLE. But I really think another late season collapse and he should be gone.

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

Originally I did support Haz when he came in to New Orleans. However he has continued to disappoint. Sure he was the first one to win a play off game for the Saints. And he did win the coach of the year for that. However wasn’t that essentially Ditka’s team?
Now I understand a coach wanting to have his own team, and his own vision, but sometimes you can take that a bit too far. Within 4 years he has changed the whole face of the team. There is (I think) only 1 player that was on the team during the Ditka years (Fontenot). Isn’t that a bit too much of a turn around. How is a team supposed to meld when they are constantly in upheaval? And where is the direction that Haz wants to go? Does he want a big team that will hit hard and stuff the run, or does he want a smaller fast unit that will be able to respond faster? I don’t even think that he knows. The only thing that I would hazard a guess at is that he doesn’t want anyone that won’t go along with his status quo. At the earliest sign of any type of controversy, someone is labeled a “Cancer� and let go. Is he afraid of people who live their life how they should play... and that’s with intensity! Look at the caliber of people that he has let go. Were there good reasons for getting rid of them? Who knows? Hindsight is always 20/20. But I would have loved to see some of them stay (insert whoever’s name you want here). The Saints used to have a strong O line and a great D. That’s how we won our first playoff game. What happened after that? We got rid of all of our impact players. How are those players doing now? A lot of them are doing really well. I guess Sammy Knight (later said again by Michael Hawthorne) was right when he said that the Saints developed players, but get rid of them before they hit their potential.
Is this Haslett’s entire fault? Probably not all of it. But leadership starts at the top. Often teams take the personality of their coach. At this point I would guess if that’s true, then Haslett is a schizophrenic. This team has no direction and no heart. Show him the door, and let’s get someone who can use all of the talent that the Saints have in abundance and do something with it.
Ok, that’s my rant for the day…

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

A better question might be - WILL Haslett get fired? Anyone think he will? What if they end up 9-7? Does he get canned? If they tank he probably will, but what if they end up 8-8 or 9-7?

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

From the reports I\'m reading it seems we would have to lose out to lose Haslett. 9-7 or 8-8 proably gets him another year.

Isn\'t a shame the way we do.

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

Hopefully it isn\'t our decisson to make. Lets hope he takes the option to go to Buffalo.

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

I don\'t know what Benson is going to do, but if I were him I wouldn\'t be basing my descesion on our record, unless that record traslates into going to the playoffs. The thing I\'d be looking at is if Haslett\'s coaching philosiphy is helping win us games or if it\'s hindering us. I mean, how many games has coaching actually helped us win? None pop in my mind. I CAN think of some games where an arguement could be made that it cost us.

I don\'t think that Haslett is all to blame. To be fair, I think the Tom Benson and Randy Meuller fiasco, played a big part in undermining this team. The timing of Benson firing Meuller was odd. I\'m quite sure that Benson had a justifiable reason to fire Randy Meuller but his decison to put Mickey Loomis in charge isn\'t exactly what I call the best decision in the world.

If this team is ever truely going to get on the right track that is going to fall squarely in the hands of Tom Benson. I don\'t know exactly what Benson should do and I don\'t think he does either. If I were him, I\'d be finding a GM that has a proven track record and give him the support that he needs.

My guess is that Haslett and all of the assistants will be back next year. They\'ll go out and sign some free agents, draft a few players, and find some kind of way to spin it............

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

OK, I\'m Tom Benson, (only younger, better looking, and a lot less money)
Here\'s my thought process...

Hmmm.
I have always thought he is a good coach.
We had an UNUSUAL amount of injuries this year. (not Jim\'s fault)
Several players did not live up to everyone\'s expectations. (arguably not Jim\'s fault)
I paid this guy a zillion dollars, and it would cost me a fortune to replace him this year.
2 or 3 plays should have gone the other way, and we should be 8-5 right now.
If I did replace him it would mean another re-building year, or two.
Is there anyone out there that would do better right now? I doubt it.
I\'ll demand he change coaching personnel.
I\'ll demand he change QB\'s.
I think I give him 1 more year to sink or swim, unless a Parcells type falls in my lap.

If we don\'t excel next year, I\'ll fire his azz!

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

Hmmm...I think Benson keeps him one more year with coaching changes a definite must, but then Haslett opts out and leaves anyway because he has probably had enough at this point and there are too many greener pastures to go to. Just a thought...

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

I believe haz should go, hopefully on his own terms, but i think he needs to go

I think haz is a good coach, I just don\'t think he\'s the right coach for this team, this team has never rallied around haz or given him their best, young teams like this one need a good amount of motivation, haz doesn\'t seem to have that ability, I think with more veterans like we had in 2000 haz could excel

I hope that he isn\'t fired because i think that would impact the teams morale negatively, the last thing this team needs is more negativity

the more important question here is: who do we replace him with?

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

Billy is starting to sound like me!! ;)

OK, so most everyone thinks he SHOULD go, but probably WON\'T go. Is that right? If that\'s the case, will any of you be excited about the Saints next year? Can they be better than 8-8 or 9-7? Can they compete for a SB?

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

Yes, I do think they can be better than 8-8 or 9-7. I always have and always will believe that the PLAYERS are more responsible for winning games than COACHES. If Haslett can go out and get some PLAYERS to address some of the weaknesses, then I think it would even be probable. Problem is, I don\'t see that happening. Besides that, I don\'t like some things that I\'ve seen over the past couple of years and I feel that Haslett has no one to blame but himself.

As far as getting excited? I\'ll always be excited when a new season rolls around. Ever known a Saints fan that wasn\'t?

[Edited on 13/12/2003 by BillyC]

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

Way back myself and LummOx had a discussion on if players or coaches had more to do with winning. I said that players were more responsible for winning and he said coaches were. Now, I\'m not trying to bring back up that same debate between myself and LummOx, but I was looking at the records of some possible coaching cadidates and one thing I noticed about all head coaches is that once the talent was gone their records suffered. That supports my theory that players are more responsible for wins.

Just for fun, here are some examples :


Jimmy Johnson -- Notice Jimmy wasn\'t NEARLY as successful without ALL that talent in Dallas.

1989 dal | 1 15 0 | 0 0 |
| 1990 dal | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1991 dal | 11 5 0 | 1 1 |
| 1992 dal | 13 3 0 | 3 0 |
| 1993 dal | 12 4 0 | 3 0 |
| 1996 mia | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |
| 1997 mia | 9 7 0 | 0 1 |
| 1998 mia | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |
| 1999 mia | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |
+----------+--------------+----------+

Jim Mora -- When the Dome Patrol was gone, so were the winning seasons.
TM | W L T | W L |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| 1986 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1987 nor | 12 3 0 | 0 1 |
| 1988 nor | 10 6 0 | 0 0 |
| 1989 nor | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 1990 nor | 8 8 0 | 0 1 |
| 1991 nor | 11 5 0 | 0 1 |
| 1992 nor | 12 4 0 | 0 1 |
| 1993 nor | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |
| 1994 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1995 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1996 nor | 2 6 0 | 0 0 |


Bill Parcells -- Even the great Parcells couldn\'t get it done without talent. Look at how much his record flucuated during his coaching career. What do you think the reason for that was?

Bill Parcells
1983 nyg | 3 12 1 | 0 0 |
| 1984 nyg | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |
| 1985 nyg | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |
| 1986 nyg | 14 2 0 | 3 0 |
| 1987 nyg | 6 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 1988 nyg | 10 6 0 | 0 0 |
| 1989 nyg | 12 4 0 | 0 1 |
| 1990 nyg | 13 3 0 | 3 0 |
| 1993 nwe | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |
| 1994 nwe | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 1995 nwe | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |
| 1996 nwe | 11 5 0 | 2 1 |
| 1997 nyj | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |
| 1998 nyj | 12 4 0 | 1 1 |
| 1999 nyj | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |
| 2003 dal | 8 5 0 | 0 0 |


Observations: -- None of those coaches did well when the talent wasn\'t there. As good as those coaches were, not any scheme, or anything else, could get them to the promised land. Now, sure, coaching plays a big part when you have talent, but my point is -- Until we get enough talented players on the Saints, we aren\'t going to do anything no matter what coach we have. So, yes, Haslett can be successful if we have enough talented players.

[Edited on 13/12/2003 by BillyC]

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

Billy, let\'s not forget the main player who had more to do with his team winning than the coach...Michael Vick. And that\'s just ONE player vs. a future hall of famer coach.

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

Very, very, true.

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

All I know is Haslett has MORE negitives than he does positives. I said earleir that I couldn\'t think of any positives and I meant it. What are the positives? I suppose you could come up with something.

This team has collapsed at then end of the last 2-years. This year we come out in preseason stumbling, bumbling, fumbling, and it carried right over into the regular season. This team was no more prepared to start the regular season than Iraq\'s army was to face the Americans. You can\'t blame that on the players, that has to go on Jim Haslett. I\'d be real curious to know who Jim Haslett blames.

Who\'s fault are these?

1. Collapsed at the end of 2001 season.
2. Collapsed at the end of 2002 season.
3. Weren\'t prepared to play at the beginning of 2003 season.
4. Have the highest player turnover of any team in the league.
5. Bad offseason aquisitions.
6. Teams aren\'t disciplined.
7. Players don\'t progress under his direction.



[Edited on 13/12/2003 by BillyC]

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

He is doing an ok job. I am happy with the teams personel grade overall c+ but we need something to happen on that OL and D. I think he needs to go... I think we need to look at getting rid of a coach every 4 years unless we have a Ring to show for it. The team is to comfortable with just doing there jobs and needs a shake up.

Make your case for Haslett to stay or go.
 

One thing I liked about the firey Zook, his defenses played like they wanted blood. Good old fashioned smashmouth football. Venturi may know all the X\'s and O\'s as well as anyone but I don\'t think he can get his players in kill-mode. Zook did.
Venturi will probably stay around because of his knowledge of the game, but we need a Zook type to light a fire under some assses and get them to play like their hair\'s on fire.
Remember the Game Whitehead had where he left everything on the field. Our best defensive effort this year. That kind of effort happened weekly when Zook was here.

Zook + our players + a few key additions = top 10 smashmouth unit.