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saint5221 12-13-2003 10:29 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
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What is Brooks' margin for error?

Saturday December 13, 2003
John DeShazier

Now that Jim Haslett has said he'll pull Aaron Brooks if he plays poorly, the question becomes how long a rope the coach will give his talented but mistake-prone quarterback.

An interception? Two?

One fumbled snap, or a ball that slips out of the cocked right hand, or one that's dislodged by a blind-side hit?

Or will it take just a couple of fruitless offensive drives, punctuated by off-the-mark throws?

Only Haslett knows. But with the New York Giants rolling in for a nationally televised Sunday night game, the rest of us are about to find out.

Perhaps it will take just one good game to bring future absolution for Brooks, whose play is being critiqued as never before in a career that has been filled with scrutiny.

Or maybe a strong performance buys Brooks nothing more than another week, when the evaluation process begins anew, with the coach still prepared to make a change in upcoming games if he feels it's necessary.

The feeling here is this cannot be an extended process. If a change is to be made, better sooner than later, to see if backup Todd Bouman has the goods, if Brooks somehow can settle down by watching, or if the Saints need to scrap everything and start over at quarterback.

This is without question the most critical juncture in the Haslett-Brooks union, one where they either can forge ahead happily ever after, end up filing for divorce or both be sent packing -- a choice that might be greeted gleefully by some fans and critics who already have had their fill.

But this much also is certain: Brooks isn't all that ails the Saints, and to believe otherwise is to look for the most convenient target. A team that bumbles its way to a disappointing 6-7 record in what was expected to be a breakthrough year is more than a one-act play. The truth is there are more Saints who have played worse this year than last, when the team caved like a rickety mine shaft en route to losing its last four regular-season games and its spot in the playoffs.

But changing the quarterback, who usually competes with the coach as the No. 1 scapegoat when a season begins to stink, provides the most bang for the buck.

It's the most visible position on the team, the easiest way to shock the system, often the best way to send the message that no player is guaranteed anything if the ship isn't sailing smoothly.

And Brooks, for all his talent and playmaking ability, hasn't produced to a level that would keep him immune. Based purely on passing numbers, Brooks looks great: .588 completion percentage, 16 touchdowns, eight interceptions and a couple of well-engineered comebacks. What's hurting Brooks is his 10 lost fumbles, some so bizarre they seem beyond explanation. Ten fumbles is a high number for two seasons. For 13 games, it's alarming.

Is Brooks the best quarterback on the roster? No doubt. Is he the Saints' best option? No, not if he commits an average of, roughly, 1.5 turnovers per game and teammates' chins and confidence appear to droop when the errors occur, as if each is the precursor to doom.

Now the quarterback essentially has been publicly challenged by his coach, told that the mistakes can't be tolerated any longer, that the controls will be handed over to Bouman if the edges remain as rough as they've been lately.

And Haslett will be either richly rewarded and vindicated for his patience, or will learn that he's been too patient with a talented athlete who is a tease.

We'll learn the answer to the questions soon, and not soon enough.

. . . . . . .
John DeShazier can be reached at jdeshazier@timespicayune.com or (504) 826-3410.

BillyC 12-13-2003 12:35 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
I don\'t think Haslett is going to have much patience with Brooks when it comes to fumbling the football. Brooks is responsible for 18 of 26 turnovers that the Saints\' offense has, with 10 of those being fumbles. There is no doubt that the fumbling cannot continue to happen. Many QB\'s have been in a make-or-break situation before. Brooks is certainly in a make-or-break situation as far as having to cut the fumbling out. Putting Brooks on notice could be the wake-up call that he needs or he might not be able to handle the pressure. But, it\'s certainly a message that needed to be sent.





[Edited on 13/12/2003 by BillyC]

jm 12-13-2003 04:34 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
I\'ll be surprised if Haz benches Brooks while the game is still winable. Benching Brooks now is like closing the barn door after the horse is out. If he had been benched at this point in the season last year even with someone from the stands or street the Saints may have been in the playoffs.

saintz08 12-13-2003 05:37 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Benching Brooks now would only lower his trade value for the next season .

Keep him in and let him throw .

Then trade him for the number 1 pick and get Eli .

BillyC 12-13-2003 05:42 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

Then trade him for the number 1 pick and get Eli .

Did you write Santa and tell him that\'s what ya want for Christmas? :o It ain\'t happening Bro.

saintz08 12-13-2003 05:54 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Benson attempted to sell the Farm for Peyton in the draft .

Did for Ricky .

The Gov. is not going to be so willing to hand out the extra $$$$ for Benson , to continue to not get the wins .

Benson needs the additional recognition Eli would give the Saints and a change needs to be made too appease the fans .

Look for early draft rumors , and Eli sporting a new Saints jersey .

Have you ever been right Billy ???

BillyC 12-13-2003 06:03 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

Have you ever been right Billy ???

Let me think about that?

BrooksMustGo 12-13-2003 06:27 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
As long as Haslett is here, Brooks starts every game. If they are getting blown out then MAYBE Bouman goes in so Haz can lay the blame on someone other than Brooks.

We have two nice options if Haz goes

1. Please welcome your newest San Diego Charger---Aaron Brooks

2. Please welcome the QB of the future for the Buffalo Bills --- Aaron Brooks

At any rate, I can\'t wait to read/see Brooks first major interview after he leaves here. I\'m sure all the Brooks lovers will be getting loads of love from #2.

BillyC 12-13-2003 06:41 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
I don\'t think I can ever recall a situation where a player has ever been more disliked in New Orleans. I also don\'t think the people who truely have disgust for Brooks will ever like him, no matter what he does. I\'ve been highly upset with other QB\'s for the Saints before, but I always hoped they would turn into great QB\'s. Well, here\'s to hoping our QB is a failure...........

[Edited on 14/12/2003 by BillyC]

saintz08 12-13-2003 09:42 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

I don\'t think I can ever recall a situation where a player has ever been more disliked in New Orleans.
1993

Wade Wilson

During one bad game in the Superdome on a Monday night , the fans started chanting Buck , Buck , Buck . Wilson goes down with an injury on the field and as they are carting him off 60, 000 plus fans are cheering .

Dierdorf goes into some disortation about classless fans .

Wilson had something like a 57.1 rating on the season and the fans had had enough of him .

saintz08 12-13-2003 10:41 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
And in the most recent storyline coming from ESPN :

Some coaches and team officials in New Orleans are increasingly frustrated by the inconsistent play of quarterback Aaron Brooks, who leads the NFL in total fumbles (13) and fumbles lost (10). Brooks has accounted for 18 of the team\'s 26 turnovers and is simply careless with the football too often. The team has invested a lot of money in the veteran quarterback but, justifiably so, coach Jim Haslett took Brooks to task this week. It just seems that Brooks has very little pocket awareness, lacks concentration at times and isn\'t a big-game player. There is a chance, if the Saints fall completely out of the playoff chase and Brooks doesn\'t heed warnings, that New Orleans will give Todd Bouman a start before the end of the season. Bouman recently signed a new contract extension that included a bonus of $1.255 million, with base salaries of $725,000 (in 2004), $750,000 (2005) and $700,000 (2006), There are workout bonuses of $25,000 for all three years and a $300,000 roster bonus for 2006.

BillyC 12-13-2003 11:35 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

1993

Wade Wilson

During one bad game in the Superdome on a Monday night , the fans started chanting Buck , Buck , Buck . Wilson goes down with an injury on the field and as they are carting him off 60, 000 plus fans are cheering .

Dierdorf goes into some disortation about classless fans .
Yep, I do rememeber that game. It was a classless act IMO. I remember Dierdorf really getting pissed about the way the crowd was cheering. Just imagine what some fans would do if Brooks got hurt. Brooks is like the anit-Christ to some people.

BrooksMustGo 12-14-2003 09:10 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
No real fan of the Saints wants to see Brooks get hurt. It would hurt his trade value too much.

People who are tired of Brooks lack of discipline and focus want to see him throw about 400 yards a game on about a 70% completion rate these next few games.

That way the Chargers won\'t insist on taking too much from us to unload him.

BillyC 12-14-2003 09:19 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

No real fan of the Saints wants to see Brooks get hurt. It would hurt his trade value too much.

People who are tired of Brooks lack of discipline and focus want to see him throw about 400 yards a game on about a 70% completion rate these next few games.

That way the Chargers won\'t insist on taking too much from us to unload him.

Aiiiight!! That\'s a good one. You get points. Y\'all Brooks bashers don\'t bother me like you used to. I\'ve grown as a poster.I\'m not going to let it get to me..... ;)

\"I\'m going to respond well, and post my butt off and do everything I can to help this board. \"Even if I don\'t, it doesn\'t matter to me because I feel good about myself, and my posting ability. I know I\'m a successful person :P :P :P

[Edited on 14/12/2003 by BillyC]

rich006 12-14-2003 10:27 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
I\'d love to see Brooks traded so we could get Eli, but I don\'t see it happening even if Saints management wants to do it. What team is going to take Brooks over the chance to draft Eli? Sure, he\'s got talent, but Eli is as close to a sure thing as you can get in a draft pick. If I\'m the Chargers, I\'d draft Eli rather than investing in Brooks. Can anybody work out specifically how we might be able to get Eli?

saintz08 12-14-2003 12:16 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Brooks and a no.1 to San Diego for their no .1 if they have the first pick or are close enoungh to get Eli .

San Diego busted on Leaf in the draft and have had issues with the last qb they drafted . Schottenheimer will need experience to save his job in San Diego next year . If San Diego pulls the trigger on a rookie in the draft , Schottenheimer is dead .

Not dropping to far in the draft and getting a veteran Qb who can step in and run the offense , would make the season a little better for Schottenheimer .

If the Saints toss in a 3rd and 4th or so the deal would be better for San Diego .

BillyC 12-14-2003 12:20 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Let\'s think about that for a minute 08. The Chargers need a QB. Eli is avaliable in the draft and is the best QB to come out of college in the draft since Peyton. The fans know the Chargers can get Eli, but they trade that chance to get Brooks. Any coach that would do that would be a damn fool and get run out of town. Can you imagine what would happen to Schottenheimer if that didn\'t work out. It ain\'t happening.

[Edited on 14/12/2003 by BillyC]

rich006 12-14-2003 01:55 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
I don\'t always agree with you Billy, but in this case I think you\'re absolutely right. I think anybody in San Diego who was responsible for NOT drafting Eli would be beaten to a bloody pulp and left in a dumpster in Tijuana. However, let\'s hope 08 is right. I think I\'ll have some of that Kool-aid now... :)

saintz08 12-14-2003 02:01 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Here are the feelings in San Diego .

Notice the poster name .

Looks like the Chargers are looking to win fast and putting another rookie in as the starter is leaving a bad taste in fans mouths . If they were going to justify that they might go for the Oklahoma Qb who won the Heisman .

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ryanleafsfault
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:12 pm Post subject: i bet chargers win it all next year

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we pick up brunell, get DEFENSE in the draft all around the board keep brees as a back up or drop him and keep flutie as a back up. Then sign a few FA offensive linemen and stumble on a good FA kicker we got the super bowl, imagine how sick this team would be with Brunell, #2 slot reciever next to boston of his caliber, some talented offensive lineman, and top picks on the D line from the draft. Wow i know for a fact if we get brunell i will get that nfl pass shyt so i can watch the chargers here in jersey the man is soo good. It would be fireworks if we somehow work this.

saintz08 12-14-2003 02:06 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
My personal favorite scenario .

Haslett to Buffalo for a first round pick ..... :D

Brooks to trade in draft pick option .

Armed with 2 first round picks and a veteran Qb to trade , the possibilities look great .

Hire Coughlin , who Benson is already comfortable with , and sign Brunell to tutor Eli ....

BrooksMustGo 12-14-2003 02:44 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
08,

I like Haz to Buffalo for a 1st rounder.

I like the Brooks trade, I\'m pulling for San Diego. Partly because if he goes to Phoenix this will be the headline. \"New QB choked with his own jock, Jeff Blake arrested\" But mainly because with even an average QB, Tomlinson will become an even more dominant rusher/receiver. Starting with a rookie in San Diego is just going to put a lot more wear and tear on LaDanian that a veteran QB would help with. Then even by taking our 1st rounder, the Chargers are in great position to take any number of outstanding receivers in this year\'s draft class.

I think a Brunell signing is a no brainer, and picking up Eli would be a fan\'s dream.

Hiring Coughlin--not a good idea. It would be like dropping a vial of Ebola in our locker room. I\'d rather try and get Lovie Smith before Atlanta gets him or Romeo Crennell from New England. We could absolutely rock with either of those guys.


[Edited on 14/12/2003 by BrooksMustGo]

saintz08 12-14-2003 04:02 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
My personal choice :

Al Saunders - asst. head coach-offensive coordinator; Born February 1, 1947, London, England, lives in Overland Park, Kan. Wide receiver-defensive back San Jose State 1966-68. No pro playing experience. College coach: Southern California 1970-71, Missouri 1972, Utah State 1973-75, California 1976-1981, Tennessee 1982. Pro coach: San Diego Chargers 1983-88 (head coach 1986-88), Kansas City Chiefs 1989-1998, St. Louis Rams 1999-2000, rejoined Chiefs in 2001.

Benson at this point is going to have to have a certain comfort zone to pull this off and Coughlin might just be the guy he is comfortable with .

saintz08 12-14-2003 11:09 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Keep it up Brooks .

Make the deal look better .......

Brooks will look great in a Chargers uniform ...............

BrooksMustGo 12-14-2003 11:10 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Preach On 08!

Brooks is making this trade seem more and more plausible all the time.

BillyC 12-14-2003 11:11 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

Keep it up Brooks .

Make the deal look better .......

Brooks will look great in a Chargers uniform ...............
You jump off the Delhomme and on to the Eli bandwagon. Find a bandwagon and ride it out!! :P

saintz08 12-14-2003 11:24 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

You jump off the Delhomme and on to the Eli bandwagon. Find a bandwagon and ride it out!!
The Delhomme bandwagon made it through the cold mountain winter pass .

The Brooks bandwagons seem to die in the cold winter months of December , similar to the Donner family wagon .

It is December , and Brooks the choke artist , will make his dreaded appearance somewhere around the Dallas game if it still matters . Or should I say he will loose his grip on the situation ..... :P

JKool 12-15-2003 02:34 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Whatever happened to that Buck kid anyway? He had a pretty big arm as I recall.

Maybe he could tutor Eli? :casstet:

If this were hockey, one of you would have traded Brooks for a puck bag and two litres of gas for the team bus.

I think it is safe to say that we\'re not going to trade Brooks, especially not after this season. His stats (other than the fumbles) have shown dramatic increase. On paper he looks pretty good. The fact that he is playing well might just as well hurt his trade value. People would wonder why we were in such a hurry to get rid of him.

saintz08 12-15-2003 03:10 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
I can only imagine the agony that the new Governor Blanco is going to put on Benson if the Saints go 8-8 and do not make any changes , and he goes looking for state aid .

The most amusing decisions are yet too come ...................

That would be what , one game less then last year with the new facility .

I can hear it now :

Benson : We need a new stadium ....

Blanco : You need linebackers and cornerbacks , not a new stadium .

BillyC 12-15-2003 06:48 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
08-- I hope you\'re not really pinning your hopes on governor Blanco bringing Eli Manning to New Orleans. You should just resign yourself to the fact that all the coaches and Aaron Brooks will be back next year. Just ask WhoDat, he\'ll tell ya ;)

saintz08 12-16-2003 09:22 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Hey BMG ........ :o

COUGHLIN COULD BE HAMPERED BY REP

As word continues to circulate regarding the possible ultimate destination of former Jags coach Tom Coughlin, there\'s growing concern that his reputation as a taskmaster could make it hard to keep and/or attract free agents.

\"Players don\'t want to deal with him,\" said a league source.

Coughlin typically is regarded as a strict disciplinarian. Unlike Bill Parcells (with whom Coughlin coached in New York more than a decade ago), Coughlin doesn\'t bring charm to the equation along with the chutzpah.

Plus, Coughlin\'s desire to control a team\'s football operations could be problematic. As we reported last week, rumors linking him to the coming Giants vacancy have sputtered in light of the fact that many league insiders believe that Coughlin won\'t be able to work with G.M. Ernie Accorsi.

The Saints remain a possibility for Coughlin -- and you can bet that Joe Horn\'s cell phone will be crammed not under a goal post but into his ass crack if he tries a stunt like that on Coughlin\'s watch.

saintz08 12-19-2003 11:02 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Hey BrooksMustGo ,

Here is the potential for other no.1 pick ......

Are you still waiting to see Willis McGahee? All that talk about how he would play this season for the Bills and be a 1,000-yard rusher was nothing but hype by his agent. McGahee has not played a down, and probably shouldn\'t at this point. McGahee was a bad pick for this current coaching regime since it won\'t be around. There has been some talk lately that Gregg Williams might keep his job, but word is the Bills have already decided to let Williams go. That could mean Jim Haslett could be going to Buffalo. Haslett played with the Bills and his wife is from that area. Haslett doesn\'t have an out clause in his contract, but the word is the Saints would let him go if a request was made. Haslett and Bills GM Tom Donahoe are good friends.

Danno 12-19-2003 11:08 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

Hey BMG ........ :o

COUGHLIN COULD BE HAMPERED BY REP

As word continues to circulate regarding the possible ultimate destination of former Jags coach Tom Coughlin, there\'s growing concern that his reputation as a taskmaster could make it hard to keep and/or attract free agents.

\"Players don\'t want to deal with him,\" said a league source.

Coughlin typically is regarded as a strict disciplinarian. Unlike Bill Parcells (with whom Coughlin coached in New York more than a decade ago), Coughlin doesn\'t bring charm to the equation along with the chutzpah.

Plus, Coughlin\'s desire to control a team\'s football operations could be problematic. As we reported last week, rumors linking him to the coming Giants vacancy have sputtered in light of the fact that many league insiders believe that Coughlin won\'t be able to work with G.M. Ernie Accorsi.

The Saints remain a possibility for Coughlin -- and you can bet that Joe Horn\'s cell phone will be crammed not under a goal post but into his ass crack if he tries a stunt like that on Coughlin\'s watch.
I heard the same things about Seargent Coughlin. But I also heard he\'s had some heart to hearts with his players the last couple of years and he\'s lightened up quite a bit.
I guess when quality players continue to leave via free-agency you need some self-evaluation.

saintz08 12-19-2003 04:10 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

I guess when quality players continue to leave via free-agency you need some self-evaluation.
How about when every year you have a locker room distraction ??

saintz08 01-05-2004 04:14 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
And the San Diego trade rumor jumps to another board.....

:yltype:

Just need a little more fanning the flames here..lol
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Does the Brooks Trade have any real substance?
Just curious.... I think that trading him would set us back even further than we already have been by this coaching staff... but it does sound tempting... i think it is a bad idea... the trade I am talking about is supposedly the chargers trading their #1 pick to us for Brooks, so we could draft Eli ??? sounds TOO Ditka-ish to me...

I wouldn\'t put it past this franchise to do something off the wall like this though...

the whole thing doesn\'t make sense cause it would most likely not yield a positive result for AT LEAST 2 to 3 years after we do it....

don\'t get me wrong Eli will be good, BUT even Peyton took a bunch of years to cut down on the dreaded interceptions!!! that we JUST got rid of from Brooks...

I like Brooks... I just happen to think our coaching ***** & ***** SOME MORE.... LIKE A 2 dollar hooker....

peace out.... Just where are the Saints headed???

sammy


BlackandBlue 01-05-2004 04:37 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Ole Sammy sounds bitter about the coaching staff. You would think the Miami weather would have him in better spirits... :P

saintz08 01-05-2004 06:52 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Quote:

Ole Sammy sounds bitter about the coaching staff. You would think the Miami weather would have him in better spirits...
Ricky\'s hoggin the prozac in Miami ......Not enough joy joy feelin left for Sammy ... :P

WhoDat 01-05-2004 08:08 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
A high first rounder for Brooks. Hhhmmm... I like it.

saintz08 01-06-2004 08:30 PM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Hmmmm.

This seems to be cutting into my supposed scenario :

ESPNews reports the New York Giants have agreed to a four-year contract with Tom Coughlin, a former head coach of the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Might have to hold out for Romeo Crommel ......

My personal favorite scenario .

Haslett to Buffalo for a first round pick .....

Brooks to trade in draft pick option .

Armed with 2 first round picks and a veteran Qb to trade to San Diego , the possibilities look great .

Draft : Eli Manning

Hire Coughlin , who Benson is already comfortable with , and sign Brunell to tutor Eli ....

BillyC 01-07-2004 07:54 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
I like all of you Brooks\' bashers getting your hopes up about shipping Brooks out of town and drafting Eli Manning. Oh, the pain you guys will feel when Eli is drafted by some other team and Brooks is under center for the first regular season game.

I\'ll be here on draft day to watch all of you suffer. :o

jm 01-07-2004 08:58 AM

What is Brooks' margin for error?
 
Billy is right. Brooks will be here for near future. And so will most of the coaches and management personnel. Not much will change next year including the results.
What\'s worse than 3 consecutive under acheiving seasons? 4 consecutive under acheiving seasons.


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