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THESE MOVES MUST BE MADE

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Coaching staff- First and foremost Haslett must be fired. Im sorry to say it because he seems like a nice man, but he his just horrible at controlling his emotions when the bullets are flying. Look at the best coach ...

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Old 12-23-2003, 01:48 AM   #1
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THESE MOVES MUST BE MADE

Coaching staff- First and foremost Haslett must be fired. Im sorry to say it because he seems like a nice man, but he his just horrible at controlling his emotions when the bullets are flying. Look at the best coach in the league right now. Bill Belichick is a robot no matter what occurs he never tips his hand. Haslett is suited to be a def. coord. and no more. I have no problem with McCarthy or Venturi in their current roles, but Haslett must go.

Offense- We must find a way to use Aaron Brooks in the draft to trade up to get Eli Manning. I don't trust Brooks as far as I can throw him to ever have the mental makeup to lead us to a Superbowl. Eli Manning has that intangible and we need him. Also someone needs to do a recount and tell me how Terrell Smith didnt make the pro bowl. Has anyone else noticed Duece's numbers since Smith has been out? Trust me, it is no coincidence. We also need to move Bentley to Center next year and show Fontenot the door. He is definitely the weak link in our line. Thanks for the memories Jerry, also thanks for letting Norman Hand abuse you in Week 1 against the Seahawks.

Defense- Where to begin... These people must be let go immediatly... Tebucky Jones- have the Saints ever paid more and gotten so little in return? Dale Carter- Hurt so much this year he might have as well have been back on the crack pipe. Every linebacker on the roster- None of them are worth a crap. They are all pulling bench duty if they are playing in Baltimore or any other good defense. Willie Whitehead- Did anyone else see him disappear when Howard came back and they moved him on the inside. He is a great pass rusher and nothing more. Could be good trade value for a draft pick or a real DL. We desperately need another run stuffing DL. But for God's sake please do not sign Sapp.

Special Teams- Carney must be taken out back and shot. Even before his missed extra point fiasco he was not reliable this year outside the 25 yard line and he has zero confidence on the new turf. Time to hang up your kicking shoe John. Thanks for booting us right out of the playoffs.
Michael Lewis aka The Beer Man must be replaced on kickoff and punt return. He is not the same player he was last year in this area. Does anyone else notice how he makes a beeline for the sideline whenever he gets the ball now. Kick returners with fear are not good kick returners Michael. You got destroyed on a kick return earlier in the year and you will never play the same because of it. Which brings me to my final change for next year....
Donte Stallworth was a complete and utter failure this year. Keith Hamlin, Seattle's rookie safety, lit you up in Week 1 and you have been looking over your shoulder all year since, that is when you have not been on the injured list. Also you couldnt catch VD in a burlesc house. Ive seen softer hands on construction workers. Catch the ball next year or it will be your last with the Saints. Also take a cue from Joe Horn and play hurt. No fan or fellow players respect you.

This is one man's view of the changes that must be made for the Saints to have a shot at the playoffs next year. This has been the most disappointing season I can remember. We had great talent, dodged playing Michael Vick twice, caught Tampa on a down year and still missed the playoffs because of too many penalties, i.e. poor coaching, and a lack of focus in key points in games, i.e. poor coaching. Haslett, it was nice knowing you but the only good thing I can say about you is that you were better than Mike Ditka.
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:14 AM   #2
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Also someone needs to do a recount and tell me how Terrell Smith didnt make the pro bowl. Has anyone else noticed Duece\'s numbers since Smith has been out?
Sad to say and I do not know the answer but , the Saints only carry one fullback on the roster . Smith has only missed one game and that was the Giants game . The most one sided beating the Saints have applied all year .
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:10 PM   #3
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Offense- We must find a way to use Aaron Brooks in the draft to trade up to get Eli Manning. I don\'t trust Brooks as far as I can throw him to ever have the mental makeup to lead us to a Superbowl. Eli Manning has that intangible and we need him.
This is the most genius opinion I\'ve seen this season! [/sarcasm]
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:32 PM   #4
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I\'m as guilty of Manning-love as the next guy, but he is not the solution for this team. We have talent right now on the offense. The team just needs someone (ie. OC, HC) to motivate and prepare them (some non-high school level gameplanning would be nice, too).

Our first round pick would be better spent on a defensive player. We still need help on that side of the ball, so unless Eli\'s gonna play linebacker or safety, I\'m just gonna have to wish him luck in the land of the Cardinals.

I\'ve gotta also disagree with you on the Tebucky point. Yes, he has been disappointing, but he has turned it on here at the end of the season. Dumping him (whether by trade or cut) would hurt more than help. We would not be able to recoup bonus money or draft picks. Therefore, we should give him another year and see how he develops in our system.

I take extreme exception to your comments about Whitehead. This guy played like a stud for us in a couple of games when Howard was out. With Howard\'s history of injuries, we would be foolish to ditch such a capable backup. Maybe he won\'t be able to develop into an inside player, but I\'m willing to give him more than half a season at that spot.

As far as the linebackers go, we need help. Cie Grant will get a chance to start next year. Rogers definitely needs to come back. I believe he\'s under contract for something around 1mil. That\'s a bargain for someone with his experience.

Stallworth is only twenty-three years old (maybe twenty-two). Wide receivers need a couple of seasons to develop. He has too much raw talent for us to give up on him after two seasons. I\'m not ready to declare him a bust.
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:51 PM   #5
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Terrell Smith was out for the Jags game as well and ran for under 100 in both the Giants and Jags game. We scored 45 points on the Giants due to them having the worst secondary in the league not because Duece ran wild. Smith should have been a Pro Bowler this year period.

It is very sarcastic to rip on me for my Eli Manning comment now because you probably have never seen him play. But he will be a top 3 pick in this years draft and he will be a MUCH better quarterback than LAUGH ON THE SIDELINE AFTER A HORRIBLE DECISION BROOKS. This man has none of the intangibles it takes to lead us to the Superbowl. I can think of more than 10 quarterbacks I\'d rather have on the field in crunch time instead of Brooks.

I stand by my Whitehead statement. He belongs on the end and nowhere else If we could use him to get a run stuffing DL we should do it. Stallworth is young and has potential, I agree and I never suggested dumping him now. I did suggest that we dump him if he has a repeat performance of this season next season.

Finally, in response to giving Jones more time to develop, this is lunacy. How long did he play for the Patriots? He did not come on at the end of the year. How many picks did he have this year? Zero. How many missed tackles did he have this year. At least 50. He is the bust of busts. He will always be an exceptional athlete but a poor football player. There is a difference.

Finally Finally, Kudos go out to Jay Bellamy for the turnaround season he had this year. He was probably the 4th best player on our team this year behind Duece, Smith, and Bentley. Mel Mitchell better bring it next year to take his spot away again. Now if only we had a free safety and a shutdown corner.
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:28 PM   #6
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Please allow me to clarify. I feel strongly that Eli will be a great quaterback in this league. I have enjoyed watching him play in college, and I will root for him (and his brother) whenever they are not playing the Saints. My opinion is, however, that the Saint\'s should not pay the high price it would cost to move up in the draft to take him. I am not sure that he would develop quickly enough to allow us to benefit from the talent we have right now on this team. Personal feelings about Aaron Brooks aside, we have invested time into his development. We also have a capable backup in Bouman. That being the case, we should focus on more glaring needs (defense) so that we can take advantage of the talent we have on the team right now.

We will not get a refund on Tebucky. Since we have paid draft picks and signing bonuses to him already, we should at least try him out another year. His tackles per game increased as the year progressed. He had six or seven tackles in each of the last four or five games. I\'m not overly pleased with his performance either, but cutting or trading him gives the team no benefit.

What do you think that we could realistically get in exchange for Whitehead? How will we replace the depth he provides? I don\'t know about you, but I\'m tired of signing fat, overpaid DTs every year. How about we let K.Allen develop?

Didn\'t mean to come off as confrontational... I just don\'t think that we need to start scrapping players. We\'ve done that every year during the Haslet era... look where it\'s gotten us. No consistency. I\'d like to see us invest some time into some of these guys and see what we get.

Just my two cents.
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:33 PM   #7
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Terrell Smith was out for the Jags game as well and ran for under 100 in both the Giants and Jags game. We scored 45 points on the Giants due to them having the worst secondary in the league not because Duece ran wild. Smith should have been a Pro Bowler this year period.
Disagree. T-rex is a one-dimensional FB. He\'s a fantastic blocker but frankly good blocking FB\'s are pretty common. He is one of THE best blocking backs, but not much else.

I stand by my Whitehead statement. He belongs on the end and nowhere else If we could use him to get a run stuffing DL we should do it.
I agree 100%... sort of. He\'s an excellent back-up DE. If we were deep at DE then I\'d consider trading for a good IDT. I think we can get a good DT without having to trade WW. But WW is no DT. He\'s decent but nothing special at DT.

Finally Finally, Kudos go out to Jay Bellamy for the turnaround season he had this year.
Gee, Bellamy\'s been in the league 11 years? And last year EVERYONE demanded we throw him under a bus. HE 100% NO DOUBT SUCKED OUT LOUD!!!
But all of a sudden he\'s getting Kudo\'s for a turnaround season?
But you don\'t want to give Tebuckey a chance to do the exact same thing?
I may be wrong but he started out as a CB and was just recently moved to FS.
I think he\'s only got 2 or 3 years at FS, but I may be mistaken, and if so I\'m sure someone will point it out ASAFP.

[Edited on 23/12/2003 by Danno]

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Old 12-23-2003, 03:46 PM   #8
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stockman, are you nuts, as i do think manning will be a better qb in the future, he will not lead this team to the super bowl next year on anytime in the near future, it would be great to have him but he will be a rookie and he isnt gonna be starting for this team next year and definetly wont lead his team to the super bowl. p. s. I did see him play as did most of the fans on this website... i also watched him play against the LSU Tigers who completly shut him down, yea he was still in the game at the end but thats b/c LSU turned the ball over on their side of the field, if not for that he wouldnt have had a chance to win, 3 times they got the ball on LSUs side of the field and scored once, thats not very good against a very solid college D... i wonder how he make the transition to the pros....
next topic... give willie whitehead the boot? , are you kidding me... the guy never quits going, he is part of our depth on the defensive line, with darren howard a Restricted FA we need to keep this guy, howard was injured most of last year and whitehead played very solidly for the team in howards absence...
Next topic... Donte Stallworth, i am about as disappointed in him as everyone else but he is only 23 years old, WW is right, WRs take a few years to develop and everyone thought he would have a breakout year this year and it just hasnt happend so now everyone is calling him a bust, we have him under contract for 4 more years and fairly cheap so lets not give up on they youngin just yet...
Next Topic... Tebucky Jones... as he hasnt played up to his potential... ever.... we havent exactly played to his strengths either... he was asked to limit the big plays and he as done what he was brought in to do...
Next Topic... Terrell Smith, i agree he is under rated and should have been voted to the pro bowl but i dont think that deuce was given a very good chance to gain yards in the past few games with horrible run blocking and horrible play calling.. not to mention that they were playing with 8 men in the box on every running situation and playing the safetys up near the line the rest of the time....
Next Topic... Jay Bellamy, yea he played great this year... but he also played like crap the rest of the time.. he missed just as many tackles as he mayed... everyone remember the juke that david carr placed on bellamy on the goal line and scored? i sure do... i almost cried it was so pathetic... he got juked by DAVID CARR....


[Edited on 23/12/2003 by JOESAM2002]

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Old 12-23-2003, 03:53 PM   #9
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Stockman.....you\'re crazier than I thought if you think you\'re the only person to see Manning play. I chose to ignore the blind Manning love as if Brooks is the single biggest reason for our failures as a team.
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Old 12-23-2003, 04:46 PM   #10
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Brooks IS streaky though.
Let\'s think through some of the arguments that get trotted out in his defense.

We have invested a great deal of time and money in him.
That\'s like saying, \"We\'ve bought a money pit and owe it to ourselves to keep pouring money into it.\" I\'m usually at a loss on how to respond to this one. Even though guys like Gannon, Garcia and Maddox all found success later in life, they all have a history of being cut until they put it all together. None of the \"older\" successful QB\'s spent 5+ years with a team committed to them as a starter.

Brooks is a tremendous athlete with boundless potential.
This what is so enigmatic about him--he has the canon arm, is tall and can run. On paper he looks like a guy who should be better than average as a QB, but he isn\'t. .500 is a pretty good record with Brooks. At some point, don\'t we need to see some of this potential turn into solid above average performance? Track guys are tremendous athletes, but that doesn\'t mean I want them to be my QB.

Brooks needs time to develop.
How much time should a team give a guy who is underperforming? How long is it OK to wait on a guy to finally become an exceptional QB?
Here\'s one for the Brooks lovers--\"How long before it\'s OK to quit treating him like a rookie and excusing his rookie mistakes?\"

There are 10 other guys on the field.
This is true and in some cases (like when Archie played here) the argument carries a lot of weight. The deal with Brooks is typically an unwillingness to shoulder responsibility for the team. He doesn\'t accept blame very well (Kenny had to lead him back to whether he had any responsibility if you recall). But even more than that, he comes off as lazy, and lackadasical. The things he can control--he doesn\'t. He sets Deuce in motion and leaves nobody to pick up the obvious blitz.
On receiver drops--make the catch if it hits you in the hands. As a counterpoint though, I\'d say Brooks does throw a lot of balls pretty high and his receivers do get punished for making the catch. Not excusing the drops, but probably not getting Brooks a lot of love from wideouts either.

Look at his numbers.
Yes, he can turn in huge numbers. You have to admit that a lot of time he puts up huge 4rth quarter numbers that don\'t help us win games. The other deal is that he can\'t string 2 games together. He throws for 160 yards one week and 400 the next, he makes being a fan a roller coaster ride.

Who won our only playoff game?
This one totally kills me. I wonder if Brooks supporters even watched that game. The entire game plan was to simplify the offense, control the clock and let Brooks run if his 1st receiver wasn\'t open. Another aspect of this is that you can\'t logically use the \"Brooks won the playoff game\" argument if you are using the \"Brooks hasn\'t lost any games this year\" team sport argument.

And lastly, If we draft a new QB, we end up rebuilding for 3-5 years
To this I say, \"so what?\".
1. As it stands, since Brooks has been the starter, every unit on this team has gotten rebuilt at least once. Offensive line is now in its 3rd-4rth incarnation. D-Line seems to change weekly, and not just small changes, but radical ones. Linebackers and secondary is constantly changing. Receivers and Backs have all changed. The only position that hasn\'t changed is the QB position. We end up rebuilding all the time with Brooks, why not rebuild without him.
2. The entire argument not to trade Brooks (notice I said trade NOT cut Brooks) is based on the idea that Brooks can take this team all the way and to bring in a rookie sabotages our superbowl run. Well he\'s now finishing up his 3rd year of starting and I don\'t see a guy who\'s consistent enough to take us there yet.

We do have some guys that we can build on for a run though, so why not make a serious commitment to the LB\"s and secondary. If Haz stays, give serious though to using the 3-4 that he\'s been threatening since he got here and build an O-line that run blocks with a smart QB behind it? The changes I\'m reading you guys propose are all pretty drastic anyway. With all the new people it seems like we need, why not just commit to a 3 year rebuild and get the defense used to playing with each other and let Brooks be the Herschel Walker trade that makes it happen for us?

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