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-   -   Our Offensive (literally) Tackles (https://blackandgold.com/saints/35528-our-offensive-literally-tackles.html)

44Champs 08-18-2011 11:44 AM

Our Offensive (literally) Tackles
 
Right now, OT looks to be the weakest area on our team.
It's not comforting to think that Bushrod is the best OT that we have. Then we have Brown and Strief - who else? I'm kinda surprised that the coaches didn't address this position more strongly in FA (unless there weren't any OT's available). If we had just ONE solid OT, I think we'd have the best O-Line in the NFL, hands down. I trust Loomis and our coaches, but I just hope that someone steps up!

lumm0x 08-18-2011 12:53 PM

I guess it's a good thing we have two of the best guards in the league and a veteran center who has been a perenial pro bowler not to mention one of the smartest coaches and QB's in the game. They'll find ways to give help by chipping with TE's and backs. Or roll outs away from pressure when they have to leave a tackle man up. I will say that Shockey's blocking may be something we sorely miss and may be more an issue in our blocking scheme than our tackles being Bushrod/Strief as opposed to Bushrod/Stinch from last year.

xan 08-18-2011 12:57 PM

I agree. OT has been extremely weak since 2006. Even during the SB year, game plans were structured to minimize damage from the edges.

Why we didn't do much to address in the narrow FA window is curious. Hell, just ONE tackle would have been a dramatic improvement.

Speedy Ron 08-18-2011 01:01 PM

In Payton I trust

SaintsBro 08-18-2011 01:04 PM

My theory on it is that Jammal Brown went down EARLY in the 2009 season, and they sort of did pretty well with Zach Strief and Jermon Bushrod and the chip blocking, even if Drew was occasionally jitterbugging around back there a bit more than usual. But then it was suddenly like, "hey we just won a SUPER BOWL!" so the tackles position sorta became less important to the team. I mean the conventional football wisdom is always sort of that, you protect your star QB's blind side with a big beefy left tackle, and then the QB traditionally takes his O line out for steak on the weeknights. But Drew is not really that kind of "traditional" stand-still quarterback and the Saints aren't that kind of offense. And let's get real for a sec, our coach is kinda dazzled by toys or offensive weapons, he is not a "three yards and a cloud of dust" type of coach. So I think big bulky O-linemen are just not really on his radar. And I suspect it's also part economics and cap room, as well.

BUT I think the real downside to this weakness, comes in what I call "scary" or "mean" games -- things like DeMarcus Ware in the Cowboys game in '09, or the second half of the Vikings NFC championship game in particular, where it's brutal, rough football with big mean ugly guys getting all up in Drew's face. Sometimes in games like that, I can sense that Drew does start to look kinda uncomfortable back there. ESPECIALLY the second half of the Vikings game! And that worries me, I feel like that's the situation where having a big burly offensive tackle out there would probably help.

darstep 08-18-2011 01:15 PM

These days strong + agile rules the day. Most of the good pass rushers are strong and can motor the corner, and if they get you on your heels, they can push your big ash straight back into the QB. That's got to be one of the toughest jobs out there. A running game puts a lot of that to rest. They just can't tee off like they were doing us last year. String a few 7 and 12 yard runs together and I might be able to handle that corner. I think Bushrod did pretty good and will do OK this year. He has, IMO, and will win most of the battles on his side of the field, not to mention on Drew's blind side of the field. Maybe they will do something when the rosters get thin around the league. But how much can really be said for the guys that are available once all the rosters are thinned out?

strato 08-18-2011 01:49 PM

Championship!!!!

Rugby Saint II 08-18-2011 02:31 PM

Two out of five positions on the Oline are weak. 2/5 is a failing grade where I come from. I trust Loomis and Payton but dang they're making me nervous as Hell!

neugey 08-18-2011 04:11 PM

I'm not real worried. There are several other teams starting journeymen or rookies at OT this year with an abbreviated training camp. What we don't lack is stability, Bushrod and Strief know the system and the offense. Strief can have a chance to shine as a full-time lineman now.

Maverick2299 08-18-2011 04:12 PM

Kreutz is the wild card, he has potential to be great. He know bushrod, he is ok, nothing special but serviceable. The RT is the mystery area.

But we still have three pre-season games to find out how bad or good the O-line is.

neugey 08-18-2011 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintsBro (Post 321078)
BUT I think the real downside to this weakness, comes in what I call "scary" or "mean" games -- things like DeMarcus Ware in the Cowboys game in '09, or the second half of the Vikings NFC championship game in particular, where it's brutal, rough football with big mean ugly guys getting all up in Drew's face. Sometimes in games like that, I can sense that Drew does start to look kinda uncomfortable back there. ESPECIALLY the second half of the Vikings game! And that worries me, I feel like that's the situation where having a big burly offensive tackle out there would probably help.

You bring up a good point here and one could make an argument that OT may be the most difficult position on the field to play with the way that defenses play and scheme nowdays. You cannot use your hands as much at tackle because they look for more holding around the edge of the tackle box.

So maybe Payton has the right idea ... there aren't many, if any, Anthony Munoz or Willie Roaf calibre OT's in the league now. It's better to have solid guys and continuity than to overpay for a guy who might not really be that much better than what we have.

FinSaint 08-18-2011 04:40 PM

I still wonder if someone like Max Starks could make the O-Line more solid?

papz 08-18-2011 07:10 PM

Saints placed OT Alex Barron (knee) on injured reserve, ending his season.

A false-start or holding penalty waiting to happen in his years as a Rams starter, Barron had been sidelined by a left knee injury in camp. He wasn't viewed as a legit possibility to step in for the recently released Jon Stinchcomb.

Source: Howard Balzer on Twitter

xan 08-18-2011 08:45 PM

Wow. Barron was a stud FA signing. Never made it on the field. Why exactly did we give him a contract?

GeauxForMore 08-18-2011 08:50 PM

Alex Barron put on IR
 
Saints put Alex Barron on injured reserve | ProFootballTalk

You know out of all the great moves Loomis did this off-season, this has to be the dumbest moves he made. Alex Barron was terrible for the Cowboys and for some reason we signed him to a contract. Waste of money and a roster spot.

Choupique 08-18-2011 08:51 PM

I trust our coaches and I think the Oline is better than some folks are giving them credit... but then I'm a loyal fan since day one.

homerj07 08-19-2011 09:13 AM

Yes I trust the coaches BUT I am not sold on Bushrod!

SaintsBro 08-19-2011 10:59 AM

I think the most alarming trend that I saw developing last year, was the "invention" of this new thing where Drew tries to do a goofy Brett Favre style miracle "shovel pass" forward, right as he's being tackled with the ball. That's the type of play where something bad almost ALWAYS happens more often than something good. That one Drew threw in the second Falcons game was ugly ugly ugly. I would be interested to know more, about the X's and O's on that, to learn IF our situation at offensive tackle might have something to do with those kind of half-broken, almost idiotic "shuffle-pass" plays, which it seemed to me were suddenly happening on offense a bit more often last year, than I remember seeing them in previous years.

Luda34 08-19-2011 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinSaint (Post 321136)
I still wonder if someone like Max Starks could make the O-Line more solid?

I wouldn't mind bringing him in


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