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An NFL scout on Delhomme/Brooks

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; This is from Len Pasquarelli's column on ESPN.com today: From the Scout's take portion of the Jan. 19 edition of the Morning After: "I don't know how you can win a conference championship game throwing just 14 passes, but God ...

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Old 01-19-2004, 09:34 PM   #1
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An NFL scout on Delhomme/Brooks

This is from Len Pasquarelli's column on ESPN.com today:

From the Scout's take portion of the Jan. 19 edition of the Morning After: "I don't know how you can win a conference championship game throwing just 14 passes, but God bless (Carolina quarterback) Jake Delhomme, he did it. It's got to kill the fans in New Orleans, who always wanted to see the kid play. And it ought to kill the Saints people, too. They paid a lot of money for (Aaron) Brooks and, when it comes to leadership, he isn't nearly there yet with Delhomme."

Could somebody forward this to Haslett??
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Old 01-19-2004, 10:23 PM   #2
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An NFL scout on Delhomme/Brooks

Not really related but I was at a Hornet\'s game last week (vs. T-Wolves) and they showed Aaron Brooks sitting courtside on the big screen. Well he was smiling and the arena was filled with boos.
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:04 PM   #3
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The bottom line, especially when it came to the \'02 season, is that this offense has not had a shortage of athletes in the last three or four years. Williams and Deuce at RB? Most teams would kill to have either one of those guys over a five or ten year period let alone both at the same time. Horn, Stallworth, Pathon, Jake Reed, Willie Jackson (say what you will but the man was a 1000 yard receiver in \'00), and Michael Lewis... plus draft picks.

My point is, this team has not been in any need of athletes on offense. It has however, been in dire need of leadership. For all of his shortcomings physically (which seem to be fewer and fewer the more I see him play), Delhomme is a better leader than ANYONE in the entire Saints organization right now.

Last year, smarts and leadership could have gotten us into the playoffs. They could have gotten us farther than a guy who is just another of the many gifted athletes we laready have. That\'s why Delhomme was a better fit, and that\'s why he will continue to be until the Saints talent on offense dwindles.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:28 PM   #4
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An NFL scout on Delhomme/Brooks

There were times this year when half the defense was out. There were times this year when the Saints started Pathon, Gardner, and Lewis as their 1,2, and 3 recievers. Does anyone really expect to win the superbowl or even get close if that\'s the case?

Injuries may not be an excuse to quit trying, but I\'ll be damned if they don\'t have something to do with winning and losing. Take half of ANYBODY\'s team away and I\'d say they might struggle.

[Edited on 21/1/2004 by saintfan]
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Old 01-22-2004, 10:19 AM   #5
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Don\'t be so myopic Saintfan. I\'m not talking about any one season. Hey, the excuse for the tank job in \'01 was 1) Poor leadership, 2) Locker room problems, 3) Youth. At least, that\'s what the organization said.

My point is, I see teams making up for lack of talent all over the place. The Pats did it this year when they had injuries. The Eagles aren\'t overly talented, neither are the Panthers, or Titans, or Ravens, or Cowboys...

What those teams do have is good coaches and strong leaders both on the sidelines and on the field. The Saints have neither. One of Delhomme\'s strong suits is his leadership ability. That could have helped us the last three years, as compared to a QB who had to be \"coddled\" (Your buddy Billy\'s word, not mine), sent to leadership classes, and had former NFL greats brought in to try to make him understand how to be a leader.

You misunderstand my position on this issue. It\'s not that I think AB is a bad QB. Quite the contrary, he is probably the second most talented we\'ve ever had (behind Archie alone). While I doubt that he\'ll ever be a top 5 kind of guy, he can, and maybe already is a second tier guy. He has all the physical gifts and hopefully he can improve his intangibles. I don\'t know. My problem with Brooks has always been the TYPE of QB that he is. He\'s athletic, but not overly efficient. I think he lacks leadership skills and the mental capacity to be great. From what I\'ve seen the scouts tend to agree with me. It\'s a personal choice. If you want a ton of athletes, so be it. I\'ll take a smart leader over a great athlete most of the time - ESPECIALLY at the quarterback position.

In an era of free agency and salary caps where money is so important, I\'d take the 15th best QB in the league, as long as he is smart and a leader, at a cost of $2 million a year, over the 10th best QB in the league for $6 million dollars a year.


[Edited on 22/1/2004 by WhoDat]

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 01-22-2004, 10:27 AM   #6
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That could have helped us the last three years, as compared to a QB who had to be \"coddled\" (Your buddy Billy\'s word, not mine), sent to leadership classes, and had former NFL greats brought in to try to make him understand how to be a leader.

I never said he HAD to be coddled. I said I think he WAS coddled too much. What I was trying to say is that I think Haslett should have been more demanding of Brooks.

As far as Jake vs. Aaron. There is no comparison WhoDat. Aaron makes better decisions and is more athletic. That\'s right, Brooks makes better decisions. I can back that up, can you. I\'m serious, show me where Delhomme makes better decisions and is more efficient. You can\'t do it. The only thing anyone can say is the PANTHERS are in the superbowl and Jake is their QB. To which I say, Chris Chandler, Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, and Kerry Collins have been QB\'s on super bowl teams too!! SO WHAT!!

[Edited on 22/1/2004 by BillyC]
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Old 01-22-2004, 10:52 AM   #7
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An NFL scout on Delhomme/Brooks

Take half of ANYBODY\'s team away and I\'d say they might struggle.
This is nearsighted? In my opinion it\'s factual and nothing less. Bill Parcells commented that there was far more talent on the Dallas Cowboys than people knew when he got here. They have VERY talented CB\'s, LB\'s, and DL\'s. Where, exactly do you think the Titans and Ravens lack talent? Who has more talent, the Eagles or the Panthers? Who\'s the better coach, Andy Reid or John Fox?

No team in the league suffered more injuries than the Saints did. Didn\'t New Orleans win 7 or their last 11? Didn\'t people say it would take a while what with the new players on defense? Doesn\'t playing from behind change the play calling? You see 8-8 as average. I see it as quite an accomplishment what with all that went wrong early on. That\'s where we disagree I suppose.

I firmly believe that the Saints are a young team that still needs to learn how to win. And no, I\'m not convinced that Haz is the man to take us all the way, but too much went wrong last year that was out of his control. People speak fondly of Bill Parcells\' willingness to send a problem player packing. Haz tells Turley to hit the road and folks jump all over him for it. Brett Farve play hurt and is obviously not the same player and he\'s a tough guy for it. Aaron Brooks plays hurt and all of a sudden he\'s a \"me\" guy. All this talk about players giving up on Haz cannot be validated. All this talk about players giving up on Brooks cannot be validated. In fact, the players themselves have good things to say regarding Brooks and Haz -- at least that\'s what I read. Those players that talk negatively are the ones that aren\'t in New Orleans anymore. Kyle Turley? Please...in his most recent ESPN Radio interview he blamed the fans, not Haz. Roaf...way too much baggage there to blame Haz. Etc, etc. It\'s easy to blame the guy on top without considering that lots of things have to go right for a team to have success. Jake Delhomme threw 16 INTS this year, and I say at least 16 more that \"should\" have been intercepted. Where would the Panthers be (and Jake\'s \"leadership\") if all those lobs he tossed off his back foot -- the ones that should have been intercepted -- were acutally intercepted or even incomplete. You know the answer, and so do I. They\'d be at home where they really belong accept for the fact that they have been a charmed team all year long. You know it and I know it. If you don\'t see that it\'s because you choose not to.


[Edited on 22/1/2004 by saintfan]

[Edited on 22/1/2004 by saintfan]

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Old 01-22-2004, 10:59 AM   #8
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As far as Jake vs. Aaron. There is no comparison WhoDat. Aaron makes better decisions and is more athletic. That\'s right, Brooks makes better decisions. I can back that up, can you. I\'m serious, show me where Delhomme makes better decisions and is more efficient. You can\'t do it.
Interesting... too bad that I can.

Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Rate
Brooks (\'01) 558 312 55.9 3832 6.87 63 26 22 76.4
Delhomme 449 266 59.2 3219 7.17 67 19 16 80.6

So in Brooks\' first year as a starter he completed 55.9% of his passes, for 6.87 yards per attempt, threw 22 INTs, and had a QB rating of 76.4.

Delhomme has thrown for a 59.2% completion percentage at a rate of 7.17 yards per attempt, 16 picks, and a rating of 80.6. Oh, don\'t forget, Jake is LESS talented than Brooks right? More with less, and for about $5 million a year less.

Let me ask you this Billy. Would you rather have Aaron Brooks, OR Jake Delhomme, Chris Claiborne, Chester McGlockton, AND Marcus Trufant? B/c that\'s about what you\'re giving up for AB. We could have signed those players this season for the cost of ONE AB. Is it clear yet?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 01-22-2004, 11:02 AM   #9
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Let me ask you this Billy. Would you rather have Aaron Brooks, OR Jake Delhomme, Chris Claiborne, Chester McGlockton, AND Marcus Trufant? B/c that\'s about what you\'re giving up for AB. We could have signed those players this season for the cost of ONE AB. Is it clear yet?
I\'d rather have Brooks. Now let me ask you a question. Would you rather have Peyton Manning or OR Jake Delhomme, Chris Claiborne, Chester McGlockton, AND Marcus Trufant and a few more players, because that\'s what you\'d be giving up. And CLEARY Peyton has proved without a shadow of a doubt he can\'t get a team to the super bowl.
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Old 01-22-2004, 11:04 AM   #10
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An NFL scout on Delhomme/Brooks

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take half of ANYBODY\'s team away and I\'d say they might struggle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is nearsighted? In my opinion it\'s factual and nothing less.
Actually, I was talking about the fact that you were focusing on the 2003 season while I was speaking about basically Haslett\'s entire tenure.

You see 8-8 as average. I see it as quite an accomplishment what with all that went wrong early on. That\'s where we disagree I suppose.
You\'re damn right I do. Hey, if you want to let a fourth year coach who has revamped his team TWICE in four years and had more money available under the cap than 75% of the teams in the league off after going .500 over the last three seasons b/c of injuries, go ahead. I\'m just interested to know what the excuse will be next year. 8-8 is an accomplishment, huh? What was your prediction for this team this year again?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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