Mc Allister says show me the money
 

-- McAllister Wants New Deal -- from FFMastermind.com


The Times-Picayune reports the agent for Saints RB Deuce McAllister, Ben Dogra of SFX Sports, said he hoped to approach Saints GM Mickey Loomis about the possibility of working a new contract for the Pro Bowl running back. McAllister has two years remaining on the original five-year, $7 million deal he signed in 2001.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Even if Deuce left, we\'d still have Brooks.

BEAT says good riddance, Brooks is taking us all the way next year. Plug in anyone at RB, because Brooks will carry this team on his back all the way to the superbowl.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

this is a result of us giving horn the money he wanted earlier than necessary

i\'m not saying horn didn\'t deserve the money so don\'t start, but he had 2 years left on his deal too and we paid him

in a year where we need to make a big free agent pick up it\'s gonna suck to spend most of our money on deuce, not that he doesn\'t deserve it so don\'t start

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

If anyone on the Saints team deserves a raise it\'d be Deuce. I hate the timing of it, but ya knew it was coming. The Saints really can\'t say no either.

I haven\'t checked his stats recently, but he better be top 5 in every known category or he\'ll have problems with many people who post here. He better stay in the top 5 too for the duration of the contract. He will not be permitted to use lack of a passing game, officiating, injuries, or poor blocking as reasons for not being top 5 in EVERY category known to man either. He better not even go there.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Its just step 1 in a long negotiating process.
I look for the Saints 1st offer to be \"insulting to a RB the caliber of Deuce\"
Bottom line is we want him, but we don\'t want to mortgage the franchises future on him.
He has disappeared down the stretch for 2 straight years (for several reasons).

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

The man runs his butt off, but he doesn\'t score much for some reason. I wonder what he\'s gonna ask for?

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

\"Mc Allister says show me the money\"
Hey Deuce, how bout you show us a game after week 12?

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Actually, I believe it was Aaron Brooks who started that trend.

You\'re right, if we\'re going to pay him top 5 he should stay top 5. Of course, he\'s STARTING out there, so we\'re paying him to be as good as he already is rather than paying him to get 10 spots better. Slightly different than the situation to which you are making jest.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Well I figured 08 would be the first to blame Aaron for Deuce\'s desire for a new contract. You beat him to it Whodat. Amazing.

He\'s top 5 in yards, but not scoring. What good are all those yards if he can\'t finish the deal?

...and away we go... :P

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

WhoDat --

You\'re good, but you ain\'t that good. In a PERFECT world every player would be paid his true value. Trouble is free agence changed everything. You seem to have been asleep when free agency hit the NFL. You see, players show promise that they might be an elite player in the league, but then their contract is due to expire. At that point, a team must decide if they want to re-sign that player. They might want to offer a low salary, but other teams are going to pay that player top 5 money based off POTENTIAL.

Then there are players coming out of college that are paid top 5 money and they have proved NOTHING in the NFL. You make it sound like the Saints are the only team in the league that pays based off potential and are the only ones that make mistakes.

What is your point?

[Edited on 26/1/2004 by BillyC]

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Uh-oh. I think the Saints will now use a fairly high draft pick on a running back.
Look for Greg Jones with 2-b or a Cedrick Cobbs with a 3.
No way they go into 2004 with a possible holdout at our thinnest position.
Deuce has held out before. There\'s nothing to say he won\'t again.
A quality back-up (or two) reduces his agents bargaining power.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

I don\'t blame any player for holding out. They do what they think is right for them, and I would do the samething. With that said, who knows what this may turn into. I mean, we could sit here and speculate on what might happen, but I\'ll worry abou that when the times comes. I have enough problems on the Saints to take care of as it is -- ;)

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Not saying I don\'t think they should give him a raise. I think they should.

However, to say he\'s a great back is a reach...at least at this point.

29 TD\'s = great back
8 TD\'s = something less than great

That\'s just my opinion.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Deuce NFL Rank-
TD\'s-8 Rank-13th
Yards-1641 Rank-4th
YPG-103 Rank-6th
YPC-4.7 Rank-9th
Att-351 Rank-4th
Fumbles-6 Rank-4th worst (RB\'s)

We have a top 10 stud, but he ain\'t no LaDanian Tomlinson.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Long time onlooker...first time poster.

I\'ve been reading about fans saying that Deuce isn\'t a top notch back. Well....he\'s the best we\'ve had in over a decade. Deuce is also one of the more humble players in the NFL, and I totally understand him wanting to be properly compensated for his worth. You have your people on here that are quick to hide behind his numbers(8 TDs), but you negected to mention his rushing and recieving yards(over 1,700). What he\'s meant to the club can\'t be annotated in statistics. Paying a back like Deuce what he wants is the kind of thing that separates smart NFL teams from the losers.

If you need any more reference of what happens when you don\'t appreciate good running backs, see Arizona.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Welcome GT, I don\'t think anyone is suggesting we don\'t pay him. My point was don\'t pay the guy like he\'s the best RB to step foot on a football field. He\'s a good RB, maybe even great. But lets not give the guy a blank check.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Welcome into the mess GoldenTomb. I don\'t think anyone here is gonna say Deuce isn\'t a stud. I think he\'s the best \"Football\" player the Saints have had in a VERY long time. I\'m a fan of his and I think the Saints should step up give the guy a raise. However, if you look at his numbers, he\'s really not a top 5 back...not yet.

The argument here is gonna end up going back to Aaron Brooks (sadly). People here say we\'re payin him top 5 money but he\'s not performing with top 5 numbers (awefully close tho). That debate will continue, and now we have Deuce...who\'s probably gonna want top 5 money too. Do we pay him top 5 money, and if so, why? Because his numbers don\'t play that out.

Gator, whether or not he\'s a top 5 running back depends on who\'s logic you want to use. I say he is. Whodat, if he\'s true to himself, will say he\'s not. The question is, do we pay him top 5 money even tho he only ranks in the top 5 in a few, select categories, or do we recognize his obvious potential regardless of his stats (which as we all know, can be interpreted variously) and step up to the plate? I\'m gonna be really interested in what all the Brooks bashers have to say about whether or not Deuce should get his raise. I, for one, am all for it...for the same reasons I was all for it with Brooks.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

I pulled the stats off of NFL.com
The 6 fumbles are the 4th worst for all NFL running backs, AFC and NFC.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?
http://stat=rush&sort=fum&pos=off&le...on=2&year=2003

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Gator. NOTHING will be proved here by mere stats. Stats can\'t show what a guy like Deuce is worth, and we all know that. The point here is that the anti-Brooks crowd...those who are gonna be in favor of writing the man a check, are gonna have to differentiate between why it\'s ok for Deuce and not someone else. That\'s where the debate will go...betcha money on that.

Those numbers, by the way, can be found on NFL.COM

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

It could be argued that these guys are better…
1. Priest Holmes
2. LaDanian Tomlinson
3. Clinton Portis
4. Jamal Lewis
5. Ahman Green
It could also be argued that these guys are just about as good…
6. Rickey Williams
7. Steven Davis
8. Shaun Alexander
9. Edgerrin James
10. Marshall Faulk

I\'d personally rank him about 6th with great upside. But it could also be argued he\'s 9th or 10th also, as well as a top 3.
Top 5 RB money would be fine with me. I think that would be fair.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

I think his being top 5 depends on which numbers you look at. How much are 8 TD\'s really worth. I could play devil\'s advocate on this one, but I won\'t because I\'m really of the same opinion you are. The guy has earned more money. Whodat already thinks Brooks contract \"may or may not\" have hurt the Saints ability to sign quality players on Defense. Can we really afford to take on another big contract or should we go the way of the mid-level sedan? ;)

[Edited on 26/1/2004 by saintfan]

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Deuce is definetly a top 5 guy, no way is jamal lewis better than deuce, have you seen lewis catch a ball? NO because the guy has hands of stone, granted when the qb tucks the ball safely into those stone hands he is phenomenal but he isn\'t the dual threat that deuce is

portis falls pretty close to lewis in that he can\'t catch but he makes up for it with his ridiculous running power, better than deuce in my opion, late in the 2nd round? what a steal

LT and priest are obivously better and both are huge dual threats

green and deuce i think are about the same level, in fact i think they are very smilar in running style and the way they are used in the passing game

point is he deserves more than the measly 2M or whatever he\'s making (i know someone will spit out the exact number here for me) and if the saints force him to sit out or let him go it would rival ditka\'s draft day fiasco in stupidity

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Dude, I\'m not trying to start a war. I just wanna see how those that wouldn\'t justify it for player A will justify it for player B. You\'ve got War on the brain man. This argument about getting middle of the road players (see the mid priced sedan BOLD print in another thread) rather than paying for potential (argued by most Brooks bashers as a primary reason the team should have stayed with jake) is either gonna hold water here with Deuce or it\'s not. I\'m just interested in seeing it get played out. You call it a war and I call it a discussion.

to-ma-to
to-mah-to

;)

[Edited on 26/1/2004 by saintfan]

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

I can\'t believe that I haven\'t had Duece as my avatar until now. He is by far my favorite Saint. I appreciate the players like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Duece McAllister who score the touchdown and hand the ball over to the official or simply set it down. That action speaks volumes. He realizes that he doesn\'t get there without help from his teammates.

That\'s why I like him as a person. As a player, he\'s done much better than the guy that the Saints gave up a whole draft and future picks for. Better in terms of attitude and better in terms of playing with injuries.

I have no understanding of money past $20.00. I do realize that if you have a good possibility of making more money than you must go for it. I don\'t like it when you\'re on a contract with two years left and you ask for more. I thought that\'s what contracts were for. I want Duece to stay and I\'m sure that he will.

My two cents on Aaron Brooks: he was making league minimum as a starting quaterback. He deserved the raise.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

I would never blame Brooks for Duece\'s desire for a new contract . I am sure almost every player that performs to a higher then expected level when they signed an original contract , wishes he could get paid more .

The fact that Brooks contract was renegotiated , could be the beginning of contractual problems for years to come .

Brooks was the first , then Horn decided to do it based upon Brooks success and now Duece is gonna give it a shot . Maybe Sullivan next year , who knows . The point is that there is a cap limit in place in the N.F.L. and this has got to stop .

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

I am for giving Deuce a fair and well paying contract. I\'d rank him 6th, I\'d pay him that way.

Of course, as usual, my comments are being spun to fit a certain person\'s argument. I love it when words are put in my mouth. I favor a great runningback and an average QB over the opposite any day. That combination is more successful today in my opinion. The \"Brooks Supporters\" can say what they will, but anyone who says that Aaron Brooks is as important to this team now and in the future as Deuce McAllister is either A) has an agenda, B) doesn\'t know football at all, or C) is simply trying to pick a fight.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

I don\'t know where Deuce ranks as for as runningbacks in the NFL. I do know there\'s not too many I would trade him for. Folks want to blame the front office of the Saints for what they consider overpaying a player. But, in this day of free agency, someone more than likely will be willing to \"show the money\" to a player that shows a huge upside. Keep in mind that every year teams spend big money on unproven players at every position. Much less players like Deuce McAllister and Aaron Brooks that have proven they can play in the NFL.

So, the arguement that a player should be paid according to where they rank is a moot point. Free agency has made it a moot point. Surely even the most casual fan can understand this.

Let\'s suppose that some team offers Deuce the SECOND highest salary in the NFL for runningbacks. Well, according to some we shouldn\'t match that salary because it doesn\'t make sense. Arguements can be made to match that salary or not, but that\'s the situation that NFL teams are faced with. Teams can\'t just simply offer a player a contract based on performance, because there is usually some team out there willing to overpay. Keep that in mind.



[Edited on 27/1/2004 by JOESAM2002]

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

So, what you\'re saying is Joe Horn only decided to renegotiate his contract because of Aaron Brooks\' renegotiation? Seriously?

...and then

So, you blame Brooks for Joe Horn\'s desire to renegotiate, but you don\'t blame Brooks for Duece\'s desire to renegotiate?

Quick, somebody pass me the 08 decoder ring. :casstet:

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Can you name the last Saint player , previous to Brooks to holdout while under contract to renegotiate ????

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

And that has what to do with what exactly 08? If I could steal from Bill O\'Reilly -- Lets make this the \"No Spin Zone\" ok? At this point Duece\'s desire for a new contract has nothing to do with Brooks\' renegotiation. That\'s what you\'re saying. However, if he holds out for more money then it automatically goes back to Brooks? Brooks was NOT the first play in history (Saints History Included) to hold out for more money.

I say it again, somebody, anybody, PLEASE pass me the 08 decoder ring!

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Brooks set precedence on the right to renegotiate , while still under a contractual term with the current management .

PRECEDENCE - The right of being first placed in a certain order, the first rank being supposed the most honorable.

Higher education , maybe ???



[Edited on 27/1/2004 by saintz08]

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Did you forget about Ricky Williams? Go back to the well, 08!!

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

08 --

I\'m really really trying to figure your logic on this one...seriously.

Joe Horn\'s renegotiation is a direct result of Aaron\'s because he held out...is that what you\'re saying?

Duece\'s desire for more money has nothing to do with Brooks UNLESS he holds out for more money...is that what you\'re saying.

Aaron Brooks set the precedence for Players Holding out for more money...is that what you\'re saying?

I think I get what you\'re trying to insinuate about the \"current administration\", but that\'s a reach...and you typically reach...a LOT...

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Ricky\'s contract was restructured in Miami .


And they\'ll no longer have to worry about the *****ly issue of Williams\' contract. The eight-year deal, negotiated by rapper Master P.\'s agency after the Saints made Williams the No. 5 pick in 1999, contains large incentives but low base salaries.

\"It\'s a contract that\'s unique in the annals of NFL history,\" said Leigh Steinberg, now Williams\' agent. \"It\'s a contract that cries out for renegotiation.\"

The Dolphins don\'t plan to renegotiate, Wannstedt said.

Get glasses .

[Edited on 27/1/2004 by saintz08]

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Ricky switched to Leigh Steinberg as his agent and tried to renegociate his contract while in New Orleans. So, Ricky Williams set the precedence 08. Now you can blame everything on Ricky Williams. Get your facts straight 08, I can\'t carry you forever!! ;)

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Either you guys calm it down or I will. Taking shots at other members will not be tolerated at all. Debate is ok, but you three are pushing it.

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

ColdFusion --

Ok, no problem, but do you remember Ricky Williams trying to renegociate his contract while still in New Orleans? Help me out here?!?!

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Ricky tried and was traded . Therefore Ricky never renegotiated while under contractual terms to the management of the New Orleans Saints . He renegotiated an accepted contract of the Miami Dolphins while under Miami Dolphin management .

Trying to do it and actual doing it are 2 different things .

Mc Allister says show me the money
 

Yeah, but Ricky Williams set the precedence of trying to renegociate a contract. Which is what Deuce is trying to do.

I get the picture. Do you? Stop it!

[Edited on 27/1/2004 by ColdFusion]