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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; So then by your reasoning, \"the Mannings\" are losers, but still a better choice than Aaron Brooks. Thus, Brooks is a bigger loser. Good work Billy. I see no one put up any REAL arguement as to why the Mannings ...

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Old 01-29-2004, 08:32 AM   #21
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ELI????

So then by your reasoning, \"the Mannings\" are losers, but still a better choice than Aaron Brooks. Thus, Brooks is a bigger loser. Good work Billy.

I see no one put up any REAL arguement as to why the Mannings shouldn\'t be considered losers.

It seems some folks are very defensive when someone critcizes the Mannings, but they can\'t understand why some fans get upset when people constantly bash the New Orleans Saints current QB, Aaron Brooks.

Peyton Manning can put up stats, but as long as he\'s been in the league he\'s got to be considered the BIGGEST reason his team has been booted out of the playoffs EVERY year. It wasn\'t the defense, or anything else that caused the Colts to LOSE in the playoffs. It was PEYTON throwing STUPID interceptions and that\'s a FACT!!

In my book that makes Peyton a LOSER. Now, I think Peyton is a better QB than Aaron Brooks, but he should be. I would take Peyton over Brooks RIGHT NOW, but I would have some BIG concerns about him blowing BIG games. He\'s done it dating all the way back to college.

For all you Manning Fans:

If you get upset by this, then surely you can understand why I get upset about the \"Brooks Bashing\"


[Edited on 29/1/2004 by BillyC]

[Edited on 29/1/2004 by BillyC]
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Old 01-29-2004, 11:02 AM   #22
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ELI????

I wasn\'t going to respond to this, but coming to a Saints Board and calling the Saints All-Time best player a loser?
All-Time best player? I have nothing against any of the Mannings, and I like to listen to Archie on the radio, but maybe you meant All-Time most popular?

Billy still has a good agument here that no one has really addressed. Peyton has monster numbers, a solid running back, good recievers, and a serviceable defense and he keeps blowing it. I don\'t think the coaches or the play calling is an issue either, since Peyton audibles at the line on almost EVERY play. Some wanna give all the credit to the Patriots defense in the AFC championship game, but we ALL saw Peyton make some REALLY stupid throws in that game. In my opinion Peyton choked...again...and his last name shouldn\'t (if we\'re being fair) cause you all to judge his performance any differently.

Looks to me like Peyton is the guy who\'s gettin owned\".


[Edited on 29/1/2004 by saintfan]

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Old 01-29-2004, 11:12 AM   #23
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The worst possible scenario that could have happened to Peyton in the playoffs this year was to play New England, Belichick has had his number for quite some time. What you have seen this season is Peyton make it past the first round of the playoffs for the first time ever, and he did fairly well up until the championship game, where he reverted back to the Manning of old. There have been good, solid arguments for both sides on this thread. If the Saints would have made it to the championship game, I would have been thrilled, and would not be questioning the coaching staff, players, free agent pickups, and draft class as much as I have.

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Old 01-29-2004, 12:06 PM   #24
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I call them losers not as human beings, because I\'m sure they are fine folks. I called them losers on the football field, which is totally the truth.
Sorry Billy, but this statement is out-of-the-atmosphere off target. It is totally your belief, but not necessarily truth.

Dan Marino only went to one Superbowl in his career and that was very early on. Does that make him a loser? What about McNabb, loser of 3 straight NFC championship games? Is he a loser, too?

I\'ve always kind of thought Archie might be a bit over-rated as QB simply because the fans of NO love him so. However, he really didn\'t get a good chance to prove whether he was or not, since he never played for decent team. So who really knows?

Peyton on the other hand is smart, durable, and accurate. He also a good leader. Regardless of his past playoff performances, I do not think you can justify the term loser being applied to him.

I don\'t give a squat whether an athlete is a loser or not in real life. One doesn\'t have to look far to find real life losers in the world of professional athletes who are superstars in their respective sports. That argument makes no sense at all.
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Old 01-29-2004, 12:16 PM   #25
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ScottyRo --


For all the eye-popping stats Peyton has put up and as much of a leader as he might be, there is no denying that Peyton is the BIGGEST reason that the Colts have been booted out of the playoffs EVERY year. It wasn\'t ANYONE else but Peyton.

Call it what you will, LOSER, CHOKE ARTIST, or anything else, but HE lost those games and he\'s the reason HIS TEAM is sitting at home watching the playoffs. He did better this year in the playoffs, but when push came to shove, he threw 4 (or 5) interceptions.

So in reference to my statement:

I call them losers not as human beings, because I\'m sure they are fine folks. I called them losers on the football field, which is totally the truth.
Exactly what isn\'t truthful about it? Why did the Colts get beat? Who on the Colts was most responsible for the loss? All fingers point to Peyton Manning. Again!!





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Old 01-29-2004, 12:42 PM   #26
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(1) Exactly what isn\'t truthful about it? (2) Why did the Colts get beat? (3) Who on the Colts was most responsible for the loss? All fingers point to Peyton Manning. Again!!
(1) It is not truth because reasonable and intelligent minds can disagree about whether it is true. Therefore, until proven one way or the other it necessarily stays in the realm of opinion. Truth is fact. Fact is: Peyton has lost some big games. Opinion is: Peyton is a loser.

The reason I picked that particular part out of your thread is because you stated your opinion as being THE TRUTH while instead you should have said \"he is a loser in my opinion.\"

(2) Because their opponents\' team performance was better than the Colts\' on that particulary day.

(3) To answer this, one would have to review each game...not just the stats. Were the receivers in sync? Maybe the D had shutdown the running game or the blocking schemes were ineffective. Maybe the Colts fell behind early forcing them out of their game plan and they never recovered. Maybe there was a fumble at a key moment that stalled a deciding drive. Maybe the Colts D just couldn\'t stop anyone....

Maybe each loss was all Peyton\'s fault. Forget that it\'s a team game. Everyone else played up to 100% potential except Manning. That still wouldn\'t create a fact that he is a loser.

I tend to think that good players and bad players are made during the regular season. The good generally go to the playoffs and the bad, perhaps, are losers. Then, in the playoffs the good have the opportunity to show their greatness. If they fail in that endeavor then they are just good, after all. Right now, I think Peyton is a good player bordering on greatness, but he\'s going to have to win more playoff games and at least make the superbowl because the expectations for him are so high.

[Edited on 29/1/2004 by ScottyRo]
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Old 01-29-2004, 12:49 PM   #27
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ScottyRo --

Fair enough. I believe Peyton is a very good player that chokes in big games. I also don\'t think that\'s debatable and I feel it\'s not my opinion but I believe it is the ABSOLUTE truth.

I\'ve said many times that there are FACTS and opininos and the FACT is Peyton ALONE threw those interceptions and those interceptions are the reason the Colts got booted out of the playoffs every year. Did other players on the Colts not play up to their potential? I don\'t know. What I do know is NO one made Peyton throw those interceptions. Also the interceptions he threw were of the STUPID variety. It\'s not like the balls were tipped or the receivers ran the wrong routes.
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Old 01-30-2004, 12:54 PM   #28
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what a jolly good thread.... :casstet:
ok.. since it ssems as no one watched the game, I\'ll tell you why the Colts lost to New England, and why Manning threw those INT\'s:

...because the Patriots\'s DB\'s were NOT afraid to jam the receivers at the line, like everyone else who played the Colts all season was.

That completely disrupted the Colts passing game.If you look at the Colts games this season, and we all saw it against the Saints, most of us (I assume) against TB and Denver, the Colts receivers were allowed to roam around untouched., while N.E. jammed them every single play.
..while there were a couple of occasions where a flag should\'ve been thrown for holding,l the Colts receivers are not physical enough to counter that level of defensive aggression.
..and, when you disrupt the receivers\' routes, guess what? You disrupt the QB\'s game as well, because now he has to hold the ball longer than he wants to, throw it where he doesn\'t want to, disrupt th timing with the receivers, etc... and that\'s when errors occur, i.e., INT\'s.

... I think some here should invoke their 5th...


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Old 01-30-2004, 01:31 PM   #29
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ELI????

Talking about a loser, Brooks couldn\'t pour urine out of a boot with instructions on the heel without fumbling it.
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:17 PM   #30
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All I\'m saying is the Manning\'s and the word \"Championship\" don\'t really go together.

When Archie was with the Saints, he lost much more than he won. Sure he played on some bad teams and Archie could have developed into a great player. He definately had the \"POTENTIAL.\"

\" But, potential is nothing, winning is everything.\"

Now, Peyton. Where do we begin. How \'bout his college days in Tenn. His college career was defined by the \"big stats\" he put up but the knock on him was that he blew big games. They said he tried to do too much and threw too many interceptions. That\'s what they said. Yep!!

Peyton then enters the NFL and proceeds to put up big stats. He got the Colts to the playoffs and then the knock on Peyton became.........well...........he couldn\'t win big games and tried to do too much and threw stupid interceptions. That\'s what they said he did. Yep, once again Peyton was called a \"choke artitst.\"

Well, this year Peyton takes his Colts to the AFC championship and the rest is H.I.S.T.O.R.Y.

Let\'s discuss?
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