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saintz08 01-27-2004 10:30 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Forget the fake stuff, this Jake's a real winner
Jan. 26, 2004
By Pete Prisco


In this very space, way back before anyone outside of the Carolinas or Louisiana had any idea how to pronounce his name, these were some not-so-kind words used to describe Carolina Panthers quarterback Jake Delhomme.

He was called Jake the Fake, a media-made phenomenon who had no business getting the attention he was receiving as a free-agent quarterback.


Jake Delhomme steps into the bright of the Super Bowl spotlight. (AP)
How could a career backup with two NFL starts -- a resumé that would make a roadie proud and the type of game that kept him on the bench in 2002 in New Orleans even though starter Aaron Brooks was hurting with a shoulder injury -- be the quarterback to lead a team to a Super Bowl?

Some eight months later, Delhomme is proving all doubters -- led by the guy writing this story --- wrong in a big, big way. On Sunday, Delhomme will start for the Panthers in Super Bowl XXXVIII at Reliant Stadium against the New England Patriots, one victory away from another where-did-this-guy-come-from story.

It will cap a wild season that has seen him open on the bench behind Rodney Peete and included his leading the Panthers to a 7-0 record in games decided by a field goal or less. Delhomme threw seven touchdown passes in the fourth quarter of games during the regular season, prompting the idea this was his magical season.

We know the kind. A guy comes from nowhere, battles all kinds of odds, plays in any league for any team that will have him and then winds up as a Super Bowl quarterback. And the hero of his hometown -- in Delhomme's case that means Breaux Bridge, La.

It happened with one Kurt Warner, and then Tom Brady. Who says you need to get your passers in the first round of the NFL Draft?

"That quarterback will still cure a lot of ills," one NFC personnel director said. "But you can bet with what's happened the past couple of years, teams will study the not-so-premium quarterbacks, too.

"What Brady and Delhomme have done is going to make a lot of people take note."

The feeling here is premium passers will still make up for not having strength in other areas. Quarterbacks still drive this game. But what Delhomme is doing in getting his team to the Super Bowl is showing what a quarterback can do when he "manages" a game.

That's a buzzword these days around the NFL. Teams want to play good defense, run the ball on offense and just ask the quarterback to manage the game. It's a kind way of saying the passer can't win it with just his arm, but it also appears to be a secret to success.

"I really haven't seen a lot of him, but I would say the big thing is he is a winner," Patriots coach Bill Belichick said. "He is making the plays that he needs to make for Carolina to win.

"That is what a quarterback's job is. It's not about stats. It's about wins."

Delhomme, in the Panthers' system, is a winner. Carolina went 11-5 during the regular season and is 3-0 in the playoffs, including a 14-3 victory over the Eagles last week in the NFC Championship Game.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7037114

[Edited on 28/1/2004 by saintz08]

WhoDat 01-28-2004 10:33 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
\"I really haven\'t seen a lot of him, but I would say the big thing is he is a winner,\" Patriots coach Bill Belichick said. \"He is making the plays that he needs to make for Carolina to win.

\"That is what a quarterback\'s job is. It\'s not about stats. It\'s about wins.\"

When Belichick is giving you props, you have arrived.

BillyC 01-28-2004 10:37 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
Quote:

\"I really haven\'t seen a lot of him, but I would say the big thing is he is a winner,\" Patriots coach Bill Belichick said. \"He is making the plays that he needs to make for Carolina to win.

\"That is what a quarterback\'s job is. It\'s not about stats. It\'s about wins.\"

When Belichick is giving you props, you have arrived.
What do you expect Belichick to say? Coaches always talk good about opposing players before the game. Have you ever heard a coach say the opposing teams QB sucked? If Belichick say\'s that about Brooks will you think Brooks\' has arrived?

That was a good one though WhoDat. I\'m still laughing.

saintfan 01-28-2004 10:39 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
They just keep on trying don\'t they?

saintz08 01-28-2004 10:46 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
Quote:

What do you expect Belichick to say? Coaches always talk good about opposing players before the game. Have you ever heard a coach say the opposing teams QB sucked? If Belichick say\'s that about Brooks will you think Brooks\' has arrived?
I have heard coaches say \" We need to stop Duece and get some more pressure on # 2 \". As though Brooks is an after thought in defensive schemeing .

BillyC 01-28-2004 10:50 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
Quote:

I have heard coaches say \" We need to stop Duece and get some more pressure on # 2 \". As though Brooks is an after thought in defensive schemeing .
That\'s interesting? What do coaches say about the Panthers? I\'ll make it simple for you 08 and make it a multiple choice test.

a.) We must stop the passing game of the Panthers.
b.) We must stop the running game of the Panthers.

I think ANY coach would say they need to stop a teams running game first, if they have a great running game that is.


saintfan 01-28-2004 10:51 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
OR

\"We need to Stop Green and get pressure on Farve\"

OR

\"We need to stop James and get pressure on Manning\"

OR

\"We need to stop Emmit and get some pressure on Aikman\"

Shall I continue? Is it really necessary? I didn\'t think it was.

;)

WhoDat 01-28-2004 11:25 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
Yet again proving that a $36 million QB is unnecessary. A $4 million one can do just fine if you have a good running game and defense. So then does it make sense to save the $36 million and spend it somewhere other than on the QB? LOL. You guys just keep proving me right.

BillyC 01-28-2004 12:41 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Quote:

Yet again proving that a $36 million QB is unnecessary. A $4 million one can do just fine if you have a good running game and defense. So then does it make sense to save the $36 million and spend it somewhere other than on the QB? LOL. You guys just keep proving me right.
Yeah, right!! How \'bout them Dohphins?

WhoDat 01-28-2004 02:48 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Well, let\'s see - regular and postseason, over the last four years the Dolphins are 42-25 (.627). The Saints are 34-30 (.531). Yeah, I\'d say it\'s working better in Miami then in some other places.

Here Billy, let\'s try another game. I\'ll name the teams with an average QB that got to the Super Bowl in the last 4 years and you name the ones with a big name QB that got there. Ready?

Carolina
New England
Tampa Bay
Oakland
New England
Baltimore
New York

OK, I\'ve got seven. That means you can have one. I\'d say I win.

BillyC 01-28-2004 02:52 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
WhoDat --

I\'ll give you the Jake Delhomme\'s and Trent Dilfer\'s of the world and I\'ll take the John Elway\'s and Joe Montana\'s. Fair enough? How many Super Bowls have your QB\'s won compared to mine?

Do great QB\'s not have a place in your football world WhoDat? Of course you are still trying to reinvent the wheel aren\'t ya? LOL. Let me know when you put GoodYear out of business. :P

saintfan 01-28-2004 03:11 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
This is just pressing the anti-Brooks agenda ever forward at any cost...whether it makes any sense or not. From one side of the mouth you hear \"Our QB must be the man that leads us to the Superbowl\"...and from the other you hear, \"Teams that make it to the Superbowl do it with average QB\'s\"...

So, all the junk about AB\'s stats and \"let\'s run him out of town because his stats aren\'t this or that\" is completely undone by the most recent \"let\'s not spend any real money on a QB because we don\'t need a statistically gifted one\" junk. That someone can actually come in here and post this kinda stuff after arguing so heavily in the other direction is laughable. I\'m laughing at it.

BillyC 01-28-2004 03:16 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
saintfan -- It\'s amazing ain\'t it? I have accepted the fact that you can\'t win an arguement with these folks, but geeez. Do they think we forget what they posted in the past?

WhoDat 01-28-2004 03:33 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Really - it is funny how much certain people in here INFER and how little they read.

Have I not ALWAYS said that Brooks is physically gifted, but not smart or a good leader. Being a good leader does NOT equate to being the best player. Most of the best leaders in the history of the world have been intelligent enough to surround themselves with people who are better at their job than the leader is.

And here we have the point. I\'ve said throughout this discussion that a QB with fewer physical talents, but more brains and more leadership is always better than the opposite. My argument hasn\'t changed.

Neither has either of yours. You choose a physically gifted and expensive \"star\" over an average and consistent QB. That\'s fine, go ahead and believe that. You guys have seen one of your QBs in the Super Bowl in the last four seasons, and I\'ve seen 7 of mine. You two want to point to the last 40 years and make conclusions about the game today. Go ahead. I liken you two to a couple of custom car makers like the Packards or Duesenbergs right after Ford invented the assembly line, saying \"Yeah they\'ve had a couple of good years of sales, but just look at the last 50 years. We\'ve killed companies like Ford over that time frame.\" You\'re right guys, maybe Packard will start making cars again, but my money is on Ford.

saintfan 01-28-2004 05:13 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Don\'t you get it Whodat? If you don\'t get it (and with all that hangin\' around with the Mannings it\'s hard to figure how you don\'t) then watch the Panthers after they\'re forced to pay Jake next year. I guess that after they lose the Superbowl (assuming they lose) they\'ll have an average QB at best (by your own admission) who wants a raise. The Panthers have already said that next year they plan to give Jake a raise. If they\'re gonna give him a raise then they CLEARLY don\'t agree with your little theory about signing 2nd or 3rd tier players as the QB. Jake\'s numbers aren\'t Top 5 or ever Top 10, but they\'ll have to pay him like it. I rekon you think they should refuse to give him a raise or re-sign him right...and shoot for some other QB who\'s unproven and take their chances. Since they\'ll have to pay him more than your little theory allows whom do you think they should sign to replace him next year? I can throw the ball 20 yards. I can throw off my back foot straight up in the air just like Jake. Maybe I\'ve got a shot! ;)

This little 4-year cycle you keep talkin about is 4 years...and some of those QB\'s are makin\' pretty good Money. This whole argument is you trying to pass off something unrelated as a reason the Saints should get rid of Brooks. You\'ve been at this for a LONG time now. Don\'t you think some of us see through it? Can\'t you understand that\'s why we constantly call you on this kinda stuff?

JOESAM2002 01-28-2004 05:27 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
I just can\'t help but ask this of saintfan. When Jake signed this past offseason, wouldn\'t you agree that he was at best an unproven quarterback with no way to judge whether he was average or top tier? My next question of you is. How do you know what the Panthers will have to pay him after this year? Have you read something somewhere? Have they announced that they will will pay him top 5 or 10 money? Have you seen where he will ask for that kind of money? I read a lot of different articles and I haven\'t seen anything about how much he will be paid. Maybe I\'m wrong, or maybe this is all speculation.

saintfan 01-28-2004 05:51 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Yes, JOESAM, I did read that, and I\'ll see if I can find the article.

At the risk of offending, you charge me with speculation, and yet I\'ve NEVER seen you ask Saintz08 (and others) for a link. How can that be?

saintfan 01-28-2004 06:13 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Quote:

The Panthers might be tempted to restructure Davis\' contract to lower his cap figure for next year. It\'s very likely they\'ll try to extend Delhomme\'s contract to a long-term deal. The Panthers now view him as their quarterback for the long term, and a new deal could lessen his cap hit for next season.
In fact if, I recall correctly, what I\'m speaking of in the earlier post was a show on the NFL Network where John Fox was interviewed and said they would have to pay Jake a \"starters\" salary next year. The link to the article is below. And again, at the risk of offending, it\'d be nice if those responsible for most of the rumors and speculation here were monitored as closely. In fact I\'ve been the link police here of late, and we all know I have no real power to enforce rules here anyway.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/football/nfl/carolina_panthers/7804919.htm?ERIGHTS=-6661058240708351378charlotte::threeways1@yahoo.com&KRD_RM=4nmropmnnkksqllkkkkkkkkkos|Len|N

JOESAM2002 01-28-2004 06:47 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
So let me get this straight. I ask you a question and you accuse me of playing favorites because I didn\'t ask anyone else?

Quote:

At the risk of offending, you charge me with speculation, and yet I\'ve NEVER seen you ask Saintz08 (and others) for a link. How can that be?
Charge? I asked a question. I didn\'t get an answer but at least I did ask.

On the subject of asking for links, I think if you look back, I have asked everyone to post links. i did not post to anyone in particular. I thought everyone needed to do it. If you\'d like I will go back and find that post for you. That being said, I think everyone needs to settle down with the debates as some like to call them. It seems to me like some are getting to gun shy about saying anything.

Any way I would appreciate it if you wouldn\'t accuse me of playing favorites. I\'m an equal opportunity hater. I hate everybody!




[Edited on 28/1/2004 by JOESAM2002]

BillyC 01-29-2004 08:54 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
The whole arguement about paying a QB according to where they rank is ridiculous.

All I hear is that stats are for losers and the only thing that matters is winning. Then those same folks talk about Brooks needs to finish in the top 5 to justify being our QB.

The anti-Brooks crowd uses anything that is handy to make an arguement. But, you\'re running out of ammo fast folks.

You wanted better completion percetage: Brooks gave it to ya!

You wanted him to throw less interceptions: Brooks gave it to ya!!

Weren\'t those 2 things on the top of the Brooks bashers list? Yes it was, but of course they\'ll deny it now!!

Now they say Brooks isn\'t good becasue of \"intangibles\"

They tell us intangibles can\'t be taught. So, therefore, give up on the bum. Right? Isn\'t that what you guys are saying. It must be if these \"intagibles can\'t be learned.

All I see is a QB that is steady improving each year and proving all the critics wrong. Now, y\'all want to bring up the fumbling, right? Is that an intangible too? Can that not be corrected? I\'m sure you guys will come up with something to prove that out --------RIGHT?







[Edited on 29/1/2004 by BillyC]

saintfan 01-29-2004 10:08 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
Ok, ok...the Delhomme-ites can think what they wanna think. It\'s not like I care one way or the other. All I\'ll say is that after the season, when the contract is \"adjusted\", you all have my word that I will not say I told you so. Everybody happy now?

JOESAM2002 01-29-2004 10:09 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
Not to make anybody mad but...........at times some of this stuff about Aaron reminds me of that little cripple boy in the neighbor hood. With little Johnny running home yelling, Momma, Momma, they\'re picking on Aaron again.

Again this was meant in fun. Please don\'t get mad, it\'s just my opinion.

BrooksMustGo 01-29-2004 10:31 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
Quote:

Not to make anybody mad but...........at times some of this stuff about Aaron reminds me of that little cripple boy in the neighbor hood. With little Johnny running home yelling, Momma, Momma, they\'re picking on Aaron again.
BEAT flames JOE for his impudence in daring to challenge the greatest QB in the history of the NFL. Sure he fumbles, but those balls are slippery, particularly indoors. Sure he runs out of bounds when he needs to grind the clock. Sure, he backs out of his protection. But the Mannings are worse.

But JOE obviously forgets that Aaron Brooks the Magnificent gave us our only playoff win in history. Brooks walks on water and BEAT challenges whether JOE is a real fan of the Saints. BEAT defies anyone to challenge the greatness, the magnificence, the power and the beauty of Aaron Brooks.

BEAT is confident that when Aaron has children they will all grow up to lead dozens of NFL teams to superbowl glory. Aaron will singlehandedly revive the economy and fortunes of the gulf south, making it a bastion of culture, wealth and renown. When Brooks comes into his kingdom, he will remember all who dared oppose in his ascent to greatness. Brooks will bar you infidels entrance to his temple.

All Hail Brooks the Great!

saintfan 01-29-2004 10:48 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
Quote:

Momma, Momma, they\'re picking on Aaron again
I know that in fact there are at least three members here who accuse myself and a few others of that very thing. I can\'t speak for anyone else here, but as for me -- as I have stated a thousand times before -- it\'s about there being far more pressing needs on the Saints than replacing the QB (in my opinion). Brooks\' numbers are fine. The offense scores plenty, even considering last year was a down year. Anyone care to debate that?

It\'s not the case will all, but with a select few (the more persistant) it has nothing to do with Brooks really and everything to do with Delhomme. Thats why the argument against Brooks goes from style to stats to contract, etc. etc. Those of us that frequent Black And Gold Dot Net know who they are.

I can site instances where I\'ve asked particular members to post links, and rather than post \'em they post sarcastic comments that go uncalled. I make a reference to a decoder ring because I\'m unable to make sense of a post (sarcastically, yes, but that only makes me part of the crowd -- see the post directly above this one -- and hardly the exception) and get called out for it, yet I\'m referred to by two memebers in particular as \"Turbo\" and it isn\'t mentioned.

I\'m not being thin-skinned and I\'m not crying \"foul\" JOESAM, but I am saying that I was a bit surprised to be accused of speculation. In my opinion I\'m far less guilty of that than certain others, and I\'ve yet to see anyone else called out for speculation before. I find it very difficult to believe that I was the only one to see that John Fox interview. It is possible tho, so that\'s fine. When Delhomme\'s contract is redone you\'ll all remember where you heard it first. I won\'t say anything like \"I told you so\", but I\'ll be smiling.


[Edited on 29/1/2004 by saintfan]

Danno 01-29-2004 11:43 AM

Jake - A real winner
 
BABBLE will never let it go.
BABBLE will never stop.
They are like the terminator. BABBLE can not be reasoned with.
BABBLE absolutely will persist until Brooks is no longer a Saint.
BABBLE motto: Damn the facts, full bash ahead.

JOESAM2002 01-29-2004 01:17 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
I knew somebody posted this. Just wanted you to know that we don\'t only pick on you saintfan.
Quote:

posted on 27/1/2004 at 12:19
Either you guys calm it down or I will. Taking shots at other members will not be tolerated at all. Debate is ok, but you three are pushing it.


quote:
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Higher education , maybe ???
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quote:
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Did you forget about Ricky Williams? Go back to the well, 08!!
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quote:
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I say it again, somebody, anybody, PLEASE pass me the 08 decoder ring!
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____________________
Forum Mod

ColdFusion@blackandgold.net

[Edited on 29/1/2004 by JOESAM2002]

saintz08 01-29-2004 01:27 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
The set by JoeSam

Quote:

I knew somebody posted this. Just wanted you to know that we don\'t only pick on you saintfan.
To 08 and 08 Goes for the slam

No , but he is the easiest to pick on ... :P

Roflmao - Had to do it , to easy JoeSam .

saintfan 01-29-2004 01:28 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Thank you for validating my entire point. 08 and Whodat can refer to me as Turbo as much as they like (or can get away with). I\'ll refrain from asking 08 to either post a link (the ones he now calls \"saintsfan link\") or for a decoder ring.

I didn\'t dream up the \"Good \'ol Boy\" club just to be mean. I notice things too. ;)

[Edited on 29/1/2004 by saintfan]

JOESAM2002 01-29-2004 01:31 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Saintfan? Did you even read the post?

Quote:

posted on 27/1/2004 at 12:19
Either you guys calm it down or I will. Taking shots at other members will not be tolerated at all. Debate is ok, but you three are pushing it.
This was the very first thing on it? I give up. :mad:

saintfan 01-29-2004 01:36 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
You obviously aren\'t getting what I\'m saying, so I give up too. :casstet:

saintz08 01-29-2004 01:44 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Can we keep the 08eraid , I have grown fond of that one .

That post was like finding a 20 dollar bill on the sidewalk ...

Just kiddin with you Saintfan ....

Notice I even spelled it right for you ....




BillyC 01-29-2004 01:45 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
Quote:

Saintfan? Did you even read the post?

Quote:

posted on 27/1/2004 at 12:19
Either you guys calm it down or I will. Taking shots at other members will not be tolerated at all. Debate is ok, but you three are pushing it.
This was the very first thing on it? I give up. :mad:
JoeSam,

I believe you are fair most of the time and I don\'t have any real problem with you. I do think you tend to take o the same view of certain members though. Which is fine. I just think it might create you some problems and make you seem biased sometimes.

saintfan 01-29-2004 01:54 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
08, my fellow, my friend, my sarcastic brother, I\'m not attacking you. I can take it, and I know you can too. I enjoy this place and I enjoy the general bickering. I don\'t mind turbo anymore than I\'m sure you mind the decoder ring. My point is that I was called out for speculation. I\'ve never seen that on this board before...not ever...and there are many far more guilty of it than I. It\'s fine tho...like I said, when the Panthers and Jake strike a new deal this offseason my supposed speculation will be validated, and as I said before...no \"I told you so\'s\" from me...just a little smile. ;)

BillyC 01-29-2004 02:40 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
I have a question for the moderator(s) Take this quote made by me:

Quote:

Did you forget about Ricky Williams? Go back to the well, 08!!
First let me say I understand you guy\'s don\'t want a bunch of name calling or antagonistic posts on the board. But, there are several of us (08, saintfan, WhoDat, Danno, B&B, etc...) that joke around with each other all the time and it\'s all in good fun. Take the \"owned\" picture B&B puts up for me all the time. I no more take offense to that than a man on mars. But, how is my jab telling 08 to \" Go back to the well\" anymore offensive than the \"owned\" picture? See what I mean? That\'s just one example and it sure seems that myself and saintfan are singled out MORE than others.

Lately, I\'ve seen WhoDat getting scolded (which makes me feel better--LOL) but can\'t we joke around anymore?

I\'m not asking this to cause trouble. I just want to know what the deal is. I think the rules are enforced for all the members, but I also feel they are enforced MORE strictly on some of us, which I feel is unfair.



[Edited on 29/1/2004 by BillyC]

JOESAM2002 01-29-2004 04:11 PM

Jake - A real winner
 
For the last time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Saintfan, I asked a question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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