A word about Delhomme comparisons

WhoDat · 01-28-2004, 02:38 PM

And what makes you say that? It sure seems to me that the Panthers could have signed a big name guy in free agency. But they opted for a smart and consistent kid. Why? Maybe they feel that great play-making ability is less important to the TEAM at the QB position than is consistency or leadership. You think that Brooks\' ability to make plays makes him more helpful to his team than Jake. In that category you are correct. But I contend that Jake\'s consistency and leadership outweigh Brooks in that category. I believe intangibles are more important. You\'re like Haslett, drooling over physical gifts.

saintfan · 01-28-2004, 04:02 PM

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I have a question.

Let\'s cut to the chase. Brooks has had helped his team win more than Jake Delhomme has helped his team win. Now, Jake\'s TEAM has helped him win more than Brooks TEAM has helped him win.

Whodat, specifically, without draggin\' out your stat bag or your contract argument or for that matter ANYTHING ELSE that you can use as a crutch, do you agree or disagree with that statement? It\'s a YES or NO answer. Can you do that?

alsaints113 · 01-28-2004, 06:38 PM

Once again, WhoDat misunderstands my post (and in this case I can see why....he has a valid argument).

What I meant was...Warner and Brady had their time in the sun (and Brady is getting a 2nd dose, but so did Warner and Brady rocked his house) and so is Jake. All the media hype around him will wane. In the end I am ABSOLUTELY NOT talking about numbers/statistics. Neither of those three (Kurt, Tom, or Jake....yes I am on first name basis with them...

was solely responsible for their championship seasons. Without the Carolina defense....they don\'t get this far. Without New Englands defense....they didnt in 2001 and dont this year get that far....Without Faulk, Bruce etc., Warner doesnt get that far.

It\'s about teams....these are teams that are in the Super Bowl. Our Saints players and coaches etc. need to learn from them and put together a great TEAM and we will succeed. With Brooks skills if he can get his head out of his arse and lead then we clobber everyone.

I guess I could make a short version and say I totally agree with BillyC here.

We have the skill players and if we can complete the TEAM factor we can have a dynasty....not some one hit wonder.

saintz08 · 01-29-2004, 01:39 AM

alsaints113

Let me give you an interesting perspective on Jake Delhomme and quite possibly a little thought that might possibly have you cheering his name ...

You are gonna see posters and fans on the streets that will say \"go Jake\" , \"see he can be a quarterback in the N.F.L.\", \"see what Jake has done in Carolina \".

Let\'s take a little trip to a Saints season of the past .

The following is a cut from many write ups of the 2002 season ending .

Once again, the New Orleans Saints squandered a great start and missed the playoffs because of a colossal late-season collapse. After starting with a 7-2 record, with wins over the Steelers, 49ers, Packers, and Buccaneers, the Saints played with an alarming lack of emotion in December. They closed the season with consecutive losses to three bumbling franchises ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â€Âœ the Vikings, Bengals, and Panthers. A win in any of those games would have sent them to the post season. Last season, the Saints lost their last four games to play themselves out of a playoff berth. December is not a happy time in the Big Easy.

The Saints struggled early, and the hometown crowd was booing the offense. They managed just one field goal. New Orleans turned the ball over three times and QB Aaron Brooks was sacked four times. It was an extremely poor performance, especially when you consider what was at stake. Unfortunately, it wasn\'t very surprising.

With their season on the line, the Saints lost three straight games that they should have won. You want to know why? Aaron Brooks has not been healthy and really struggled, but head coach Jim Haslett stuck with him week after week. The Saints have invested a lot of money in Brooks, and they\'re building the franchise around him. Perhaps Haslett was afraid of a controversy erupting if backup Jake Delhomme came in and played well. That reasoning makes no sense to us. Keeping Brooks out there probably did more to hurt his confidence than Delhomme ever could have. He had to start his offseason by walking off the field to a chorus of boos from the hometown fans.

All throughout this late season collape , Haslett told fans and reporters \"Brooks was fine and he was not affected by the injury\" , despite obvious problems in throwing the ball .Shortly after as we all know Brooks would have surgery to repair the injury .

My personal favorite comment is when one reporter asked Haslett \" Did you ever consider putting Delhomme in \" ?? Haslett replies \" The thought had never crossed my mind \" , the thought never crossed his mind despite the fact that 60,000 plus Saints fans who paid to see the game were pinging Delhommes name off the back of Hasletts head like a battleship sonar looking for a submarine .It never crossed his mind , as banners hung from the Super Dome rails with Delhommes name on them , It never crossed his mind , as Brooks grimaced in obvious pain after every throw . It never crossed his mind as his own players began to play as though just going through the motions . Some of these players would later have to be purged from the system , Turley and Hand and others that might have begun to question Hasletts deire to win with that decision to play an injured Brooks rather then a healthy Delhomme . The replacement of these players could be factored into 2003 early season loses as part of the now famous Haslett \" They need time to gel \" Comments . A potential couple of wins the Saints could have used in the December play off run .

As Saints fans , we would like to believe and trust that the team that we spend our hard earned money on to see is doing the best they can to win , this includes the coaching staff and ownership , for some this trust was compromised at the end of 2002 . In 2003 the Saints faithful set out to watch their team do battle on the gridiron , setting record sales in the Super Dome . As 2003 started the Saints stumbled early and surprisingly the once not better then an injured quarterback Delhomme began to lead the opposing division rival Panthers team to victory after victory . Suddenly the questions started to appear \" How could he do it in Carolina and not have be able to do it in New Orleans \" ?

The name Jake Delhomme for some means we want answers . The name Jake Delhomme for some means we do not believe you gave us 100% in 2002 . For some the name Jake Delhomme represents the possible return to the play offs , that some had hoped for in 2002 .

As Head Coach of the Saints , Haslett is in charge of coaching his players , to be better players and reach their greatest potential .

I myself am gonna cheer on Jake Delhomme as I watch him in the Super Bowl Sunday and hope that he does great and the Panthers win , so that I can get an 8x10 of Jake Delhomme holding up the Lombardi trophy .

Hasletts going to get that 8x10 with the following writen across the front :

The thought never crossed your mind ???
Don\'t let it happen again
From
A Saints Fan

[Edited on 29/1/2004 by saintz08]

jm · 01-29-2004, 08:34 AM

Why does the Brooks / Delhomme debate continue? In order to have fair comparisons the QBs need to operate behind the same O line under the same circumstances. In the case of Brooks/Delhomme there is very little data along these lines. The only game that some data can be used is the 2002 season in the Saints vs Baltimore game. Brooks was replaced by Delhomme with about 10 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter. at the time the Saints were leading 20-7. The stats are as follows: Passing Brooks 9of 25 for 123 yards and 1 TD, Delhomme 7of 8 passes for 103 yards , rushing Brooks 3 for 11 yards, Delhomme 1 for 6 yards. Brooks lead the team for 20 points and Delhomme lead the team for 17 points. the Saints went on to win 37 - 25. Prior to that game Delhomme had limited play in the TB game completing 1 pass for 10 yards and one incompletion of a Hail Mary pass in the Panthers game in Charlotte.
Now, I know that anyone can take stats and manipulate them to support their view all I can say is these are the stats, have at em.

BrooksMustGo · 01-29-2004, 09:01 AM

Why does the Brooks / Delhomme debate continue? In order to have fair comparisons the QBs need to operate behind the same O line under the same circumstances. In the case of Brooks/Delhomme there is very little data along these lines.

Even if Brooks was playing behind Carolina\'s O-line, it wouldn\'t matter much. Brooks would still back out of the protection and refuse to step up and deliver the football. Even if that guy played behind a line of 1st ballot hall of famers, he would still back out of the protection, leaving himself vulnerable to the edge rusher.

alsaints113 · 01-29-2004, 09:35 AM

saitnz08, Up until a few days ago I was cheering Delhomme and one could consider me a Delhommeite/Brooks basher. Well I had an epiphany which is the central point to all my recent posts. I don\'t give a crap about Jake anymore and am tired of hearing about him. The Saints are my team and so Brooks is my man. Sure Jake is a good QB but he\'s not ours. I want the Panthers to get the crap knocked out of them and Jake to have a bad game so that all the Delhomme talking will cease. As Saints fans we need to move on and support our team in hopes that next season (I know, us Saints fans say that a lot) we will be where the Panthers are. We have a great team with great players. If we shore up our defense and gel and become the team we should have been the last three years, we can beat anyone. If I had it my way, both the Panthers and Patriots would lose and Tagliabue would give us the Lombardi.

I support nobody but the Saints....and Jake is no longer a Saint.

saintz08 · 01-29-2004, 11:31 AM

Up until a few days ago I was cheering Delhomme

I can tell , the questions still remain .

If

If is the central point of life , how we live it is based upon it .

If Haslett had put Delhomme in for an injured Brooks , we might have had a chance to play for that trophy.

If we shore up our defense and gel and become the team we should have been the last three years, we can beat anyone.

As Head Coach of the Saints , Haslett is in charge of coaching his players , to be better players and reach their greatest potential .

The thought never crossed your mind ???
Don\'t let it happen again
From
A Saints Fan

For you the message of Delhomme could read , Do not let the teams talent go unreached like you did with Jake Delhomme , do not let another player from the Saints go play for another coach and reach a higher level then he did while you were coaching him .

Geaux Jake ....

BillyC · 01-29-2004, 11:35 AM

08 --

Will you be here after the Super Bowl? I have a VERY strong feeling that JAKE is going to stink it up in the Super Bowl and I hope you are logged on to B&G so we can discuss ol\' Jake.

I\'m looking foward to it -- :P

JOESAM2002 · 01-29-2004, 12:27 PM

Billy, I hope you\'ll be here too if he doesn\'t.

Oh by the way, I really don\'t care who wins. We have Louisiana boys on both teams.

[Edited on 29/1/2004 by JOESAM2002]

01-28-2004, 02:38 PM	#11
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	A word about Delhomme comparisons And what makes you say that? It sure seems to me that the Panthers could have signed a big name guy in free agency. But they opted for a smart and consistent kid. Why? Maybe they feel that great play-making ability is less important to the TEAM at the QB position than is consistency or leadership. You think that Brooks\' ability to make plays makes him more helpful to his team than Jake. In that category you are correct. But I contend that Jake\'s consistency and leadership outweigh Brooks in that category. I believe intangibles are more important. You\'re like Haslett, drooling over physical gifts.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

01-28-2004, 04:02 PM	#12
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	A word about Delhomme comparisons Forgive me for jumping in here, but I have a question. Let\'s cut to the chase. Brooks has had helped his team win more than Jake Delhomme has helped his team win. Now, Jake\'s TEAM has helped him win more than Brooks TEAM has helped him win. Whodat, specifically, without draggin\' out your stat bag or your contract argument or for that matter ANYTHING ELSE that you can use as a crutch, do you agree or disagree with that statement? It\'s a YES or NO answer. Can you do that?

01-28-2004, 06:38 PM	#13
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95	A word about Delhomme comparisons Once again, WhoDat misunderstands my post (and in this case I can see why....he has a valid argument). What I meant was...Warner and Brady had their time in the sun (and Brady is getting a 2nd dose, but so did Warner and Brady rocked his house) and so is Jake. All the media hype around him will wane. In the end I am ABSOLUTELY NOT talking about numbers/statistics. Neither of those three (Kurt, Tom, or Jake....yes I am on first name basis with them... was solely responsible for their championship seasons. Without the Carolina defense....they don\'t get this far. Without New Englands defense....they didnt in 2001 and dont this year get that far....Without Faulk, Bruce etc., Warner doesnt get that far. It\'s about teams....these are teams that are in the Super Bowl. Our Saints players and coaches etc. need to learn from them and put together a great TEAM and we will succeed. With Brooks skills if he can get his head out of his arse and lead then we clobber everyone. I guess I could make a short version and say I totally agree with BillyC here. We have the skill players and if we can complete the TEAM factor we can have a dynasty....not some one hit wonder.
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95

01-29-2004, 01:39 AM	#14
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	A word about Delhomme comparisons alsaints113 Let me give you an interesting perspective on Jake Delhomme and quite possibly a little thought that might possibly have you cheering his name ... You are gonna see posters and fans on the streets that will say \"go Jake\" , \"see he can be a quarterback in the N.F.L.\", \"see what Jake has done in Carolina \". Let\'s take a little trip to a Saints season of the past . The following is a cut from many write ups of the 2002 season ending . Once again, the New Orleans Saints squandered a great start and missed the playoffs because of a colossal late-season collapse. After starting with a 7-2 record, with wins over the Steelers, 49ers, Packers, and Buccaneers, the Saints played with an alarming lack of emotion in December. They closed the season with consecutive losses to three bumbling franchises ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â€Âœ the Vikings, Bengals, and Panthers. A win in any of those games would have sent them to the post season. Last season, the Saints lost their last four games to play themselves out of a playoff berth. December is not a happy time in the Big Easy. The Saints struggled early, and the hometown crowd was booing the offense. They managed just one field goal. New Orleans turned the ball over three times and QB Aaron Brooks was sacked four times. It was an extremely poor performance, especially when you consider what was at stake. Unfortunately, it wasn\'t very surprising. With their season on the line, the Saints lost three straight games that they should have won. You want to know why? Aaron Brooks has not been healthy and really struggled, but head coach Jim Haslett stuck with him week after week. The Saints have invested a lot of money in Brooks, and they\'re building the franchise around him. Perhaps Haslett was afraid of a controversy erupting if backup Jake Delhomme came in and played well. That reasoning makes no sense to us. Keeping Brooks out there probably did more to hurt his confidence than Delhomme ever could have. He had to start his offseason by walking off the field to a chorus of boos from the hometown fans. All throughout this late season collape , Haslett told fans and reporters \"Brooks was fine and he was not affected by the injury\" , despite obvious problems in throwing the ball .Shortly after as we all know Brooks would have surgery to repair the injury . My personal favorite comment is when one reporter asked Haslett \" Did you ever consider putting Delhomme in \" ?? Haslett replies \" The thought had never crossed my mind \" , the thought never crossed his mind despite the fact that 60,000 plus Saints fans who paid to see the game were pinging Delhommes name off the back of Hasletts head like a battleship sonar looking for a submarine .It never crossed his mind , as banners hung from the Super Dome rails with Delhommes name on them , It never crossed his mind , as Brooks grimaced in obvious pain after every throw . It never crossed his mind as his own players began to play as though just going through the motions . Some of these players would later have to be purged from the system , Turley and Hand and others that might have begun to question Hasletts deire to win with that decision to play an injured Brooks rather then a healthy Delhomme . The replacement of these players could be factored into 2003 early season loses as part of the now famous Haslett \" They need time to gel \" Comments . A potential couple of wins the Saints could have used in the December play off run . As Saints fans , we would like to believe and trust that the team that we spend our hard earned money on to see is doing the best they can to win , this includes the coaching staff and ownership , for some this trust was compromised at the end of 2002 . In 2003 the Saints faithful set out to watch their team do battle on the gridiron , setting record sales in the Super Dome . As 2003 started the Saints stumbled early and surprisingly the once not better then an injured quarterback Delhomme began to lead the opposing division rival Panthers team to victory after victory . Suddenly the questions started to appear \" How could he do it in Carolina and not have be able to do it in New Orleans \" ? The name Jake Delhomme for some means we want answers . The name Jake Delhomme for some means we do not believe you gave us 100% in 2002 . For some the name Jake Delhomme represents the possible return to the play offs , that some had hoped for in 2002 . As Head Coach of the Saints , Haslett is in charge of coaching his players , to be better players and reach their greatest potential . I myself am gonna cheer on Jake Delhomme as I watch him in the Super Bowl Sunday and hope that he does great and the Panthers win , so that I can get an 8x10 of Jake Delhomme holding up the Lombardi trophy . Hasletts going to get that 8x10 with the following writen across the front : The thought never crossed your mind ??? Don\'t let it happen again From A Saints Fan [Edited on 29/1/2004 by saintz08]
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

01-29-2004, 08:34 AM	#15
jm 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 133	A word about Delhomme comparisons Why does the Brooks / Delhomme debate continue? In order to have fair comparisons the QBs need to operate behind the same O line under the same circumstances. In the case of Brooks/Delhomme there is very little data along these lines. The only game that some data can be used is the 2002 season in the Saints vs Baltimore game. Brooks was replaced by Delhomme with about 10 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter. at the time the Saints were leading 20-7. The stats are as follows: Passing Brooks 9of 25 for 123 yards and 1 TD, Delhomme 7of 8 passes for 103 yards , rushing Brooks 3 for 11 yards, Delhomme 1 for 6 yards. Brooks lead the team for 20 points and Delhomme lead the team for 17 points. the Saints went on to win 37 - 25. Prior to that game Delhomme had limited play in the TB game completing 1 pass for 10 yards and one incompletion of a Hail Mary pass in the Panthers game in Charlotte. Now, I know that anyone can take stats and manipulate them to support their view all I can say is these are the stats, have at em.
jm 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 133

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01-29-2004, 09:01 AM	#16
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	A word about Delhomme comparisons Why does the Brooks / Delhomme debate continue? In order to have fair comparisons the QBs need to operate behind the same O line under the same circumstances. In the case of Brooks/Delhomme there is very little data along these lines. Even if Brooks was playing behind Carolina\'s O-line, it wouldn\'t matter much. Brooks would still back out of the protection and refuse to step up and deliver the football. Even if that guy played behind a line of 1st ballot hall of famers, he would still back out of the protection, leaving himself vulnerable to the edge rusher.

01-29-2004, 09:35 AM	#17
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95	A word about Delhomme comparisons saitnz08, Up until a few days ago I was cheering Delhomme and one could consider me a Delhommeite/Brooks basher. Well I had an epiphany which is the central point to all my recent posts. I don\'t give a crap about Jake anymore and am tired of hearing about him. The Saints are my team and so Brooks is my man. Sure Jake is a good QB but he\'s not ours. I want the Panthers to get the crap knocked out of them and Jake to have a bad game so that all the Delhomme talking will cease. As Saints fans we need to move on and support our team in hopes that next season (I know, us Saints fans say that a lot) we will be where the Panthers are. We have a great team with great players. If we shore up our defense and gel and become the team we should have been the last three years, we can beat anyone. If I had it my way, both the Panthers and Patriots would lose and Tagliabue would give us the Lombardi. I support nobody but the Saints....and Jake is no longer a Saint.
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95

01-29-2004, 11:31 AM	#18
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	A word about Delhomme comparisons Up until a few days ago I was cheering Delhomme I can tell , the questions still remain . If If is the central point of life , how we live it is based upon it . If Haslett had put Delhomme in for an injured Brooks , we might have had a chance to play for that trophy. If we shore up our defense and gel and become the team we should have been the last three years, we can beat anyone. As Head Coach of the Saints , Haslett is in charge of coaching his players , to be better players and reach their greatest potential . The thought never crossed your mind ??? Don\'t let it happen again From A Saints Fan For you the message of Delhomme could read , Do not let the teams talent go unreached like you did with Jake Delhomme , do not let another player from the Saints go play for another coach and reach a higher level then he did while you were coaching him . Geaux Jake ....
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

01-29-2004, 11:35 AM	#19
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	A word about Delhomme comparisons 08 -- Will you be here after the Super Bowl? I have a VERY strong feeling that JAKE is going to stink it up in the Super Bowl and I hope you are logged on to B&G so we can discuss ol\' Jake. I\'m looking foward to it -- :P
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

01-29-2004, 12:27 PM	#20
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	A word about Delhomme comparisons Billy, I hope you\'ll be here too if he doesn\'t. Oh by the way, I really don\'t care who wins. We have Louisiana boys on both teams. [Edited on 29/1/2004 by JOESAM2002]