Saints First Round Picks > FAIL!

strato · 10-19-2011, 10:50 AM

Also since 06 we have a superbowl and a nfc championship appearance..so even adding Reggie as good pick is not all that crazy...if you look at the overall results..JMHO

st thomas · 10-19-2011, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by strato

Also since 06 we have a superbowl and a nfc championship appearance..so even adding Reggie as good pick is not all that crazy...if you look at the overall results..JMHO

i am with u 100%
reggie bush was a great pick, how many times has it been ironed into peoples minds that when the texans left one off the greatest college players ever for a city that was in need of a miricle. i would bet 99.9% of the black and gold nation went nuts when it happened. now its over hes gone and through with, and we came out in dam good shape after 2006. i just don't see why he was'nt a great pick in 06 to some people .a lot of the younger generation never had to endure the early years of, well embarrasing football with picks, les kelly, kevin hardy, roy smith, kurt shoumacker, larry burton.joe cambell,russel erxabin a punter, shawn knight, j. sullivan, alex molden. reggie bush will not be in this group it won't happen.

AlaskaSaints · 10-19-2011, 11:37 AM

Ingram can only carry one football at a time. One touch at a time. More touches are only going to give him more yards, but may or may not improve his yards-per-carry.

I'm underwhelmed, but hopeful.

Give me some Ivory. We'll throw him against defenses until he can't stand up... again. But he'll give you two years' worth of Ingram yards/production in the process!

Alaska

st thomas · 10-19-2011, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints

Ingram can only carry one football at a time. One touch at a time. More touches are only going to give him more yards, but may or may not improve his yards-per-carry.

I'm underwhelmed, but hopeful.

Give me some Ivory. We'll throw him against defenses until he can't stand up... again. But he'll give you two years' worth of Ingram yards/production in the process!

Alaska

i see what your saying alaska, i'm thinking he gash a few long ones also that could improve the ypc. we will never know if he's that kind of back in seans 3 headed monster playbook. maybe fourheaded coming soon.lol

papz · 10-19-2011, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by lumm0x

You grade a team's draft by looking at how many players are still with the club and in a starting role with the team. We have a high percentage of guys over all rounds that made the team and evolved into starting roles. I would say we draft above average, especially in later rounds. Many of our first rounders became starters, most turned into solid journeyman players and a couple of busts. We failed to hit the home run picks though in the first.

You also have to look at the success of the team as a whole. We've become a Super Bowl Champion and have been a consistent post season team over the past 5 years. I think our drafting has complemented things quite well. The only glaring disaster pick to me right now is Sullivan. I can accept every other pick as we saw respectable results. You can't look at drafts from 7 years ago and say we made the wrong pick on someone because a future pro bowler went in the 4th round. 32 people smarter than all of us didn't see it at that time. And people paid to be smarter than us have consistently graded our drafts no worse than average every year as they transpire with some being excellent grades.

I've been confident in Loomis and Payton over their tenure. They have shown no reason to make me lack confidence in their scouting. At the time I have been happy with each pick in the first round since 2006 without question. Sure in hindsight some could have been better spent, but at the time I was in agreement that the fit was right.

Well said lummox.

Rugby Saint II · 10-19-2011, 12:39 PM

As far as I'm concerned we got Sean Payton in the first round.

boonedocksaint · 10-19-2011, 12:52 PM

jeanpierre, the only thing that's a fail is your topic.

ALL those players, even stallworth and grant, had great moments w/ the saints and contributed plenty.

stallworth wouldve been a lot more productive had it not have been for hamstring issues.

grant was great before we overpaid him and he lost his hard work ethic he had in his earlier years w/ the saints.

the only pick that didnt really EVER do much was jonathon sullivan. i agree, that was a waste of a pick.

all the other guys i have yet to mention, contributed a lot, or are still raw.

i know you're full of hatred and disgust right now because we looked like ****e against the bucs, but, lets not be a total d*ck, alright? we'll rebound in a BIG way against the colts. we'll be ok, buddy, alright? the sky isnt falling quite, yet. just chill out.

Papa Voodoo · 10-19-2011, 02:16 PM

No team gets this right. Wouldn't picks like Jimmy Graham and Jhari Evans tilt this back th opposite direction? What about Tom Brady? Ingram is no bust, that's silly. Meachem is way better than A LOT of other 1st round WRs....Detroit anyone?

jeanpierre · 10-19-2011, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by lumm0x

You grade a team's draft by looking at how many players are still with the club and in a starting role with the team. We have a high percentage of guys over all rounds that made the team and evolved into starting roles. I would say we draft above average, especially in later rounds. Many of our first rounders became starters, most turned into solid journeyman players and a couple of busts. We failed to hit the home run picks though in the first.

You also have to look at the success of the team as a whole. We've become a Super Bowl Champion and have been a consistent post season team over the past 5 years. I think our drafting has complemented things quite well. The only glaring disaster pick to me right now is Sullivan. I can accept every other pick as we saw respectable results. You can't look at drafts from 7 years ago and say we made the wrong pick on someone because a future pro bowler went in the 4th round. 32 people smarter than all of us didn't see it at that time. And people paid to be smarter than us have consistently graded our drafts no worse than average every year as they transpire with some being excellent grades.

I've been confident in Loomis and Payton over their tenure. They have shown no reason to make me lack confidence in their scouting. At the time I have been happy with each pick in the first round since 2006 without question. Sure in hindsight some could have been better spent, but at the time I was in agreement that the fit was right.

We've done a great job in latter rounds; I'm specifically looking at the first round and there are more misses than hits...

When you look at teams that had built Superbowl Dynasties they had success in the first round...

Example, 49'ers first rounders from 81-94 included Ronnie Lott, Jerry Rice, Harris Barton, Ted Washington, Dana Hall, Dana Stubblefield, Bryant Young, William Floyd; '82, '83, '86, '88 no picks...

Overall we've done better than most in the draft, but it is the First round I'm putting under the microscope and saying WTH? is wrong with the first round scouting?

I think in the last two years we seem to be doing better, but we'll only know that in couple of more years...

The best move we made was Sean Payton and Drew Brees; what the Reggie Bush pick did for South Louisiana was amazing; but whatever scouting is doing to rate these players needs to be reviewed and improved...

SaintsBro · 10-19-2011, 08:51 PM

Maybe part of it is in the philosophy of the coach and front office, where except for obvious no-brainers (Reggie, Ingram) the Saints tend to shy away from "star" or "media hype" or marquee type players in general. Which coincidentally are usually the ones in the 1st round, that the fantasy geeks pay attention to, and are more expen$ive to sign -- and instead of going for the "marquee names" that the media heads and fantasy wonks drool for, they really like to spend their time and money looking for great athletes, prospects, diamonds in the rough, talent to groom, and players on the cusp of greatness or passed over by other teams. BIG NAME first rounders may be great for fantasy stats, or for selling jerseys, or getting a weak team noticed by the media, but if you look at how this team operates, it's only one part of the picture for them. I don't think of the 1st round in the draft as being especially more important to the Saints overall team structure than any other part of the process of acquiring talent, in fact it's maybe even a little LESS so than it is with other teams... you look at all these picks in hindsight, and you really think it's weak scouting, dude -- you don't see that maybe it's part of the organization's philosophy? Especially regarding $$$ and bang for the buck.

With a few noteworthy exceptions, the Saints don't like throwing piles of money at unproven talent that has been overhyped and given extensive media spin and coverage: they just don't. They also tend to avoid divas, "head cases" and oversize 22-year-old man-boy egos looking for payday, whenever they can. The no-names and coaching projects, the under-the-radars and middle round picks, and guys largely overlooked by the media and other teams, that's pretty much the heart and core of this team. If you are putting the first round under a microscope, and wondering where the BIG NAMES and big fantasy stats are, then I don't know if you really understand this Saints team and its coaches, or not. Payton himself was an overlooked nobody, both as a scab player and a coach. So was Williams. So was Drew. They almost all are. That's why I think the topic is kinda FAIL, more than the picks.

10-19-2011, 11:35 AM	#42
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Originally Posted by strato Also since 06 we have a superbowl and a nfc championship appearance..so even adding Reggie as good pick is not all that crazy...if you look at the overall results..JMHO i am with u 100% reggie bush was a great pick, how many times has it been ironed into peoples minds that when the texans left one off the greatest college players ever for a city that was in need of a miricle. i would bet 99.9% of the black and gold nation went nuts when it happened. now its over hes gone and through with, and we came out in dam good shape after 2006. i just don't see why he was'nt a great pick in 06 to some people .a lot of the younger generation never had to endure the early years of, well embarrasing football with picks, les kelly, kevin hardy, roy smith, kurt shoumacker, larry burton.joe cambell,russel erxabin a punter, shawn knight, j. sullivan, alex molden. reggie bush will not be in this group it won't happen.
	thats the fact jack!!!!!

10-19-2011, 11:58 AM	#44
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints Ingram can only carry one football at a time. One touch at a time. More touches are only going to give him more yards, but may or may not improve his yards-per-carry. I'm underwhelmed, but hopeful. Give me some Ivory. We'll throw him against defenses until he can't stand up... again. But he'll give you two years' worth of Ingram yards/production in the process! Alaska i see what your saying alaska, i'm thinking he gash a few long ones also that could improve the ypc. we will never know if he's that kind of back in seans 3 headed monster playbook. maybe fourheaded coming soon.lol

10-19-2011, 12:31 PM	#45
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,681	Originally Posted by lumm0x You grade a team's draft by looking at how many players are still with the club and in a starting role with the team. We have a high percentage of guys over all rounds that made the team and evolved into starting roles. I would say we draft above average, especially in later rounds. Many of our first rounders became starters, most turned into solid journeyman players and a couple of busts. We failed to hit the home run picks though in the first. You also have to look at the success of the team as a whole. We've become a Super Bowl Champion and have been a consistent post season team over the past 5 years. I think our drafting has complemented things quite well. The only glaring disaster pick to me right now is Sullivan. I can accept every other pick as we saw respectable results. You can't look at drafts from 7 years ago and say we made the wrong pick on someone because a future pro bowler went in the 4th round. 32 people smarter than all of us didn't see it at that time. And people paid to be smarter than us have consistently graded our drafts no worse than average every year as they transpire with some being excellent grades. I've been confident in Loomis and Payton over their tenure. They have shown no reason to make me lack confidence in their scouting. At the time I have been happy with each pick in the first round since 2006 without question. Sure in hindsight some could have been better spent, but at the time I was in agreement that the fit was right. Well said lummox.

10-19-2011, 05:17 PM	#49
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Originally Posted by lumm0x You grade a team's draft by looking at how many players are still with the club and in a starting role with the team. We have a high percentage of guys over all rounds that made the team and evolved into starting roles. I would say we draft above average, especially in later rounds. Many of our first rounders became starters, most turned into solid journeyman players and a couple of busts. We failed to hit the home run picks though in the first. You also have to look at the success of the team as a whole. We've become a Super Bowl Champion and have been a consistent post season team over the past 5 years. I think our drafting has complemented things quite well. The only glaring disaster pick to me right now is Sullivan. I can accept every other pick as we saw respectable results. You can't look at drafts from 7 years ago and say we made the wrong pick on someone because a future pro bowler went in the 4th round. 32 people smarter than all of us didn't see it at that time. And people paid to be smarter than us have consistently graded our drafts no worse than average every year as they transpire with some being excellent grades. I've been confident in Loomis and Payton over their tenure. They have shown no reason to make me lack confidence in their scouting. At the time I have been happy with each pick in the first round since 2006 without question. Sure in hindsight some could have been better spent, but at the time I was in agreement that the fit was right. We've done a great job in latter rounds; I'm specifically looking at the first round and there are more misses than hits... When you look at teams that had built Superbowl Dynasties they had success in the first round... Example, 49'ers first rounders from 81-94 included Ronnie Lott, Jerry Rice, Harris Barton, Ted Washington, Dana Hall, Dana Stubblefield, Bryant Young, William Floyd; '82, '83, '86, '88 no picks... Overall we've done better than most in the draft, but it is the First round I'm putting under the microscope and saying WTH? is wrong with the first round scouting? I think in the last two years we seem to be doing better, but we'll only know that in couple of more years... The best move we made was Sean Payton and Drew Brees; what the Reggie Bush pick did for South Louisiana was amazing; but whatever scouting is doing to rate these players needs to be reviewed and improved...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

10-19-2011, 08:51 PM	#50
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Maybe part of it is in the philosophy of the coach and front office, where except for obvious no-brainers (Reggie, Ingram) the Saints tend to shy away from "star" or "media hype" or marquee type players in general. Which coincidentally are usually the ones in the 1st round, that the fantasy geeks pay attention to, and are more expen$ive to sign -- and instead of going for the "marquee names" that the media heads and fantasy wonks drool for, they really like to spend their time and money looking for great athletes, prospects, diamonds in the rough, talent to groom, and players on the cusp of greatness or passed over by other teams. BIG NAME first rounders may be great for fantasy stats, or for selling jerseys, or getting a weak team noticed by the media, but if you look at how this team operates, it's only one part of the picture for them. I don't think of the 1st round in the draft as being especially more important to the Saints overall team structure than any other part of the process of acquiring talent, in fact it's maybe even a little LESS so than it is with other teams... you look at all these picks in hindsight, and you really think it's weak scouting, dude -- you don't see that maybe it's part of the organization's philosophy? Especially regarding $$$ and bang for the buck. With a few noteworthy exceptions, the Saints don't like throwing piles of money at unproven talent that has been overhyped and given extensive media spin and coverage: they just don't. They also tend to avoid divas, "head cases" and oversize 22-year-old man-boy egos looking for payday, whenever they can. The no-names and coaching projects, the under-the-radars and middle round picks, and guys largely overlooked by the media and other teams, that's pretty much the heart and core of this team. If you are putting the first round under a microscope, and wondering where the BIG NAMES and big fantasy stats are, then I don't know if you really understand this Saints team and its coaches, or not. Payton himself was an overlooked nobody, both as a scab player and a coach. So was Williams. So was Drew. They almost all are. That's why I think the topic is kinda FAIL, more than the picks. Rugby Saint II likes this.

10-19-2011, 10:50 AM	#41
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Also since 06 we have a superbowl and a nfc championship appearance..so even adding Reggie as good pick is not all that crazy...if you look at the overall results..JMHO

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10-19-2011, 11:37 AM	#43
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	Ingram can only carry one football at a time. One touch at a time. More touches are only going to give him more yards, but may or may not improve his yards-per-carry. I'm underwhelmed, but hopeful. Give me some Ivory. We'll throw him against defenses until he can't stand up... again. But he'll give you two years' worth of Ingram yards/production in the process! Alaska

10-19-2011, 12:39 PM	#46
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,720	As far as I'm concerned we got Sean Payton in the first round.

10-19-2011, 12:52 PM	#47
boonedocksaint 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 340	jeanpierre, the only thing that's a fail is your topic. ALL those players, even stallworth and grant, had great moments w/ the saints and contributed plenty. stallworth wouldve been a lot more productive had it not have been for hamstring issues. grant was great before we overpaid him and he lost his hard work ethic he had in his earlier years w/ the saints. the only pick that didnt really EVER do much was jonathon sullivan. i agree, that was a waste of a pick. all the other guys i have yet to mention, contributed a lot, or are still raw. i know you're full of hatred and disgust right now because we looked like ***e against the bucs, but, lets not be a total dck, alright? we'll rebound in a BIG way against the colts. we'll be ok, buddy, alright? the sky isnt falling quite, yet. just chill out.

10-19-2011, 02:16 PM	#48
Papa Voodoo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,628	No team gets this right. Wouldn't picks like Jimmy Graham and Jhari Evans tilt this back th opposite direction? What about Tom Brady? Ingram is no bust, that's silly. Meachem is way better than A LOT of other 1st round WRs....Detroit anyone?

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