Not a debate

saintz08 · 02-02-2004, 10:00 PM

Some of you seem way to quick to give Jake all the credit for keeping the Panthers in this game. Were you even watching?

Some just see it the way the N.F.L. Super Bowl reporter notes it .....

Delhomme\'s performance will go down in the history books as one of the greatest ever in a losing effort. However, it\'s the winning team that\'s most always remembered first.

http://www.superbowl.com/news/story/7055821

ScottyRo · 02-02-2004, 10:23 PM

08, you can\'t even admit that if not for the Panthers\' D and special teams then Jake wouldn\'t have had a chance to make it so close? I\'m not trying to make this complicated.

Again, people were saying that Jake did not have a defense to lean on in that game. That is not accurate. The D kept them in it during the first half when Jake was not playing well and came up with a huge interception late in the game. Additionally, Stephen Davis and D. Foster each had more rushing yards than the entire Patriots offense. That is some good defense considering the Panthers\' Rb\'s weren\'t exactly running free all game.

Now, go back read my original post. I said don\'t give Jake ALL the credit, but that he played a great 32 minutes.

And, btw, your N.F.L. Reporter had this to say about the first half:

Delhomme might have finished the game in style, but he was an ugly duckling early in the game. He completed 1 of 6 passes for 1 yard in the first quarter, and his fumble on the Panthers\' second drive of the second quarter led to New England\'s first touchdown.

Sounds a lot like what I had to say, but you just overlooked that part since it didn\'t mesh with your views, right?

alsaints113 · 02-02-2004, 11:20 PM

gatorman, another problem with forums, as it is with any \"chat\" medium is that you can\'t hear the tone tone of the poster\'s voice. Therefore it is hard to recognize if the person is being a d**k or not. I can\'t speak for Scotty but I have become a bit perturbed at everything I say turning into a QB debate. As I said several times now, Jake rocked the house last night (at least in the second half) and I only hope that can give Brooks the motivation he needs to perform and get us to the big one.....You know, the NFC South has represented the NFC in the last two Super Bowls....I think it\'s our turn (certainly not the Falcons....that\'s the last thing a Saints fan should say

)

saintz08 · 02-02-2004, 11:24 PM

08, you can\'t even admit that if not for the Panthers\' D and special teams then Jake wouldn\'t have had a chance to make it so close? I\'m not trying to make this complicated.

I am not going to come out and say Delhomme a first year starter for the Carolina Panthers in his first year and first Super Bowl appearance played flawlessly against a top 10 defense that had been to the Super Bowl before .

Now considering , those Panthers are known for their shutdown defense and their ground game , which most will say got them to the Super Bowl . The quarterback Jake Delhomme was given considerable less credit then he deserved .

Especially considering the fact on how a soon to be free agent , potentially highest paid player in the N.F.L. and top rated passer in the A.F.C. quarterback named Peyton Manning fared against this same defense 2 weeks ago .

Manning finished 23 of 47 for 237 yards, with one touchdown and four interceptions.
Delhomme finished 16 of 33 passes for 323 yards with three touchdowns and no interceptions.

Sounds a lot like what I had to say, but you just overlooked that part since it didn\'t mesh with your views, right?

No , maybe your just underestimating what the man was up against .....

ScottyRo · 02-03-2004, 09:22 AM

Gator,

I don\'t want an apology. As long as you stay within the rules, you\'re ok by me. Ocassionally, some people here get offended too easlily. I am not one of them.

I believe that I should be able to use what you said about my argument, what you\'ve said in the past, and how you\'ve acted in the past to defend my points and my position and attack your weaknesses.

So, as long as you stay within the rules of this forum, feel welcome to zing me as hard as you can because I am going to do the same to you as well as anyone else that posts here. That\'s what great debate is about, i.e., promoting your strengths while undermining your opponents\' weaknesses.

Cool?

ScottyRo · 02-03-2004, 09:43 AM

08,

I am not going to come out and say Delhomme a first year starter for the Carolina Panthers in his first year and first Super Bowl appearance played flawlessly against a top 10 defense that had been to the Super Bowl before .

Of course, not because you can\'t especially looking at the first half. Remember, I said he had a \"great\" second half. That\'s not tearing Jake down.

Now considering , those Panthers are known for their shutdown defense and their ground game , which most will say got them to the Super Bowl . The quarterback Jake Delhomme was given considerable less credit then he deserved .

All I am trying to get across is that people on this thread were saying that Jake didn\'t have a defense or a running game to rely on. I dispute that because Jake only had one good drive in the first half. If the defense was playing as poorly as people here are saying, then the Panthers would have been down by at least 20 at the half. That wasn\'t the case. I think I\'m giving Jake exactly the credit he deserves.

Especially considering the fact on how a soon to be free agent , potentially highest paid player in the N.F.L. and top rated passer in the A.F.C. quarterback named Peyton Manning fared against this same defense 2 weeks ago .

Once again, I don\'t think this has anything to do with any other QB than Brady and Delhomme. However, lest you forget, Manning a \"dome\" QB was playing in the snow at the Patriots home field. Jake didn\'t exactly have those elements to contend with in the superbowl.

No , maybe your just underestimating what the man was up against

To the contrary, I am taking a fair and balanced (copyright, Fox News) look at the game. He pulled off perhaps the greatest performance turn around in superbowl history, but he didn\'t do it alone. While he was screwing up, his defense was keeping it close.

FrenzyFan · 02-03-2004, 12:52 PM

While the title was \"Not a debate\", it is one.

I agree completely with the statement that Jake played a bad first half. However, anyone reasonable is compelled to look at all of the circumstances in a situation. I think that \'08 brings some valid points to the table. The Patriots defense has made all walks and types of QBs look simply awful this season. Is that an indication of the prowess of the defense or bad performance by the QBs in question? Considering that it was consistently so, do just accept that some magical force causes bad performances by every QB that plays against the Patriots. I don\'t.

That being the case, in my opinion Jake deserves all the credit the fans, sportwriters, radio-announcers, and the esteemed (

) members of this board can heep upon him. Other QBs in similar situation NEVER RECOVERED or found ways to exploit the Patriots. Jake did. Did he do it absolutely alone? No, of course not. Did he do what his peers (other NFL QBs) could not? Yes, he did.

I don\'t know if Jake will continue to play this game to the level he did in the Superbowl. This might be one of those \"magical\" seasons where a player steps up and plays so far above his abiilties, it lifts an entire team up.

If he does..... as I said in the intro I have no desire to play against him this season.

ScottyRo · 02-03-2004, 01:44 PM

FF, you\'ve made some valid points about Jake\'s performance and they\'ve been made by 08 and others as well. I don\'t disagree that he put on a great performance for one drive in the first half and most of the second half.

However, you made a statement when you posted this thread that I just have to disagree with:

It was not the famous front-four that kept the Panthers in that game,

The fact is that in the first half the Panthers\' D rose to the occasion on several drives even though the Patriots consistently received good field position because the Panthers\' Offense wasn\'t moving the ball. The first 27 minutes of the game belonged to the Patriots, yet the score was 0-0 or 7-0 after their first score.

Their front four held the Patriots Rb\'s to almost nothing and even though Brady was putting up yards, they ended many drives without giving up points. If that\'s not relying on your D to keep it close while you\'re playing badly, I don\'t know what is.

ScottyRo · 02-03-2004, 01:49 PM

AND, if he continues to play with that kind of magic and luck, then, no, I don\'t look forward to facing him in 2004 either.

The NFC South is going to be one of the strongest divisions in the league. The last two NFC Champs have come from the NFC South. It\'s almost a shame because the Saints have one of the best teams they\'ve ever assembled, yet the competition in the division seems as strong as ever.

Let\'s hope the saying \"what doesn\'t kill you, makes you stronger\" will be the Saints mantra for the coming years instead of \"we got killed.\"

02-02-2004, 10:00 PM	#21
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Not a debate Some of you seem way to quick to give Jake all the credit for keeping the Panthers in this game. Were you even watching? Some just see it the way the N.F.L. Super Bowl reporter notes it ..... Delhomme\'s performance will go down in the history books as one of the greatest ever in a losing effort. However, it\'s the winning team that\'s most always remembered first. http://www.superbowl.com/news/story/7055821
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

02-02-2004, 10:23 PM	#22
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Not a debate 08, you can\'t even admit that if not for the Panthers\' D and special teams then Jake wouldn\'t have had a chance to make it so close? I\'m not trying to make this complicated. Again, people were saying that Jake did not have a defense to lean on in that game. That is not accurate. The D kept them in it during the first half when Jake was not playing well and came up with a huge interception late in the game. Additionally, Stephen Davis and D. Foster each had more rushing yards than the entire Patriots offense. That is some good defense considering the Panthers\' Rb\'s weren\'t exactly running free all game. Now, go back read my original post. I said don\'t give Jake ALL the credit, but that he played a great 32 minutes. And, btw, your N.F.L. Reporter had this to say about the first half: Delhomme might have finished the game in style, but he was an ugly duckling early in the game. He completed 1 of 6 passes for 1 yard in the first quarter, and his fumble on the Panthers\' second drive of the second quarter led to New England\'s first touchdown. Sounds a lot like what I had to say, but you just overlooked that part since it didn\'t mesh with your views, right?

02-02-2004, 11:20 PM	#23
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95	Not a debate gatorman, another problem with forums, as it is with any \"chat\" medium is that you can\'t hear the tone tone of the poster\'s voice. Therefore it is hard to recognize if the person is being a d**k or not. I can\'t speak for Scotty but I have become a bit perturbed at everything I say turning into a QB debate. As I said several times now, Jake rocked the house last night (at least in the second half) and I only hope that can give Brooks the motivation he needs to perform and get us to the big one.....You know, the NFC South has represented the NFC in the last two Super Bowls....I think it\'s our turn (certainly not the Falcons....that\'s the last thing a Saints fan should say )
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95

02-02-2004, 11:24 PM	#24
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Not a debate 08, you can\'t even admit that if not for the Panthers\' D and special teams then Jake wouldn\'t have had a chance to make it so close? I\'m not trying to make this complicated. I am not going to come out and say Delhomme a first year starter for the Carolina Panthers in his first year and first Super Bowl appearance played flawlessly against a top 10 defense that had been to the Super Bowl before . Now considering , those Panthers are known for their shutdown defense and their ground game , which most will say got them to the Super Bowl . The quarterback Jake Delhomme was given considerable less credit then he deserved . Especially considering the fact on how a soon to be free agent , potentially highest paid player in the N.F.L. and top rated passer in the A.F.C. quarterback named Peyton Manning fared against this same defense 2 weeks ago . Manning finished 23 of 47 for 237 yards, with one touchdown and four interceptions. Delhomme finished 16 of 33 passes for 323 yards with three touchdowns and no interceptions. Sounds a lot like what I had to say, but you just overlooked that part since it didn\'t mesh with your views, right? No , maybe your just underestimating what the man was up against .....
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

02-03-2004, 09:22 AM	#25
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Not a debate Gator, I don\'t want an apology. As long as you stay within the rules, you\'re ok by me. Ocassionally, some people here get offended too easlily. I am not one of them. I believe that I should be able to use what you said about my argument, what you\'ve said in the past, and how you\'ve acted in the past to defend my points and my position and attack your weaknesses. So, as long as you stay within the rules of this forum, feel welcome to zing me as hard as you can because I am going to do the same to you as well as anyone else that posts here. That\'s what great debate is about, i.e., promoting your strengths while undermining your opponents\' weaknesses. Cool?

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02-03-2004, 09:43 AM	#26
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Not a debate 08, I am not going to come out and say Delhomme a first year starter for the Carolina Panthers in his first year and first Super Bowl appearance played flawlessly against a top 10 defense that had been to the Super Bowl before . Of course, not because you can\'t especially looking at the first half. Remember, I said he had a \"great\" second half. That\'s not tearing Jake down. Now considering , those Panthers are known for their shutdown defense and their ground game , which most will say got them to the Super Bowl . The quarterback Jake Delhomme was given considerable less credit then he deserved . All I am trying to get across is that people on this thread were saying that Jake didn\'t have a defense or a running game to rely on. I dispute that because Jake only had one good drive in the first half. If the defense was playing as poorly as people here are saying, then the Panthers would have been down by at least 20 at the half. That wasn\'t the case. I think I\'m giving Jake exactly the credit he deserves. Especially considering the fact on how a soon to be free agent , potentially highest paid player in the N.F.L. and top rated passer in the A.F.C. quarterback named Peyton Manning fared against this same defense 2 weeks ago . Once again, I don\'t think this has anything to do with any other QB than Brady and Delhomme. However, lest you forget, Manning a \"dome\" QB was playing in the snow at the Patriots home field. Jake didn\'t exactly have those elements to contend with in the superbowl. No , maybe your just underestimating what the man was up against To the contrary, I am taking a fair and balanced (copyright, Fox News) look at the game. He pulled off perhaps the greatest performance turn around in superbowl history, but he didn\'t do it alone. While he was screwing up, his defense was keeping it close.

02-03-2004, 12:52 PM	#27
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Not a debate While the title was \"Not a debate\", it is one. I agree completely with the statement that Jake played a bad first half. However, anyone reasonable is compelled to look at all of the circumstances in a situation. I think that \'08 brings some valid points to the table. The Patriots defense has made all walks and types of QBs look simply awful this season. Is that an indication of the prowess of the defense or bad performance by the QBs in question? Considering that it was consistently so, do just accept that some magical force causes bad performances by every QB that plays against the Patriots. I don\'t. That being the case, in my opinion Jake deserves all the credit the fans, sportwriters, radio-announcers, and the esteemed ( ) members of this board can heep upon him. Other QBs in similar situation NEVER RECOVERED or found ways to exploit the Patriots. Jake did. Did he do it absolutely alone? No, of course not. Did he do what his peers (other NFL QBs) could not? Yes, he did. I don\'t know if Jake will continue to play this game to the level he did in the Superbowl. This might be one of those \"magical\" seasons where a player steps up and plays so far above his abiilties, it lifts an entire team up. If he does..... as I said in the intro I have no desire to play against him this season.
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg

02-03-2004, 01:44 PM	#28
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Not a debate FF, you\'ve made some valid points about Jake\'s performance and they\'ve been made by 08 and others as well. I don\'t disagree that he put on a great performance for one drive in the first half and most of the second half. However, you made a statement when you posted this thread that I just have to disagree with: It was not the famous front-four that kept the Panthers in that game, The fact is that in the first half the Panthers\' D rose to the occasion on several drives even though the Patriots consistently received good field position because the Panthers\' Offense wasn\'t moving the ball. The first 27 minutes of the game belonged to the Patriots, yet the score was 0-0 or 7-0 after their first score. Their front four held the Patriots Rb\'s to almost nothing and even though Brady was putting up yards, they ended many drives without giving up points. If that\'s not relying on your D to keep it close while you\'re playing badly, I don\'t know what is.

02-03-2004, 01:49 PM	#29
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Not a debate AND, if he continues to play with that kind of magic and luck, then, no, I don\'t look forward to facing him in 2004 either. The NFC South is going to be one of the strongest divisions in the league. The last two NFC Champs have come from the NFC South. It\'s almost a shame because the Saints have one of the best teams they\'ve ever assembled, yet the competition in the division seems as strong as ever. Let\'s hope the saying \"what doesn\'t kill you, makes you stronger\" will be the Saints mantra for the coming years instead of \"we got killed.\"