I Feel Bad For Jake
 

As much as I have wanted to see the Panthers lose his year (and I wanted to see them lose REALLY REALLY BAD) I wanted to see them loose the Superbowl even more. I was frolicking in Glee early in the game yesterday cause 'ol Jake the lucky snake was playing so poorly. He looked out of place in that game early on, and all my suspicions were being validated. I was already plotting my comments for this site.

As the game went on I began to see something in Jake. I'm still not convinced he's the great QB some say he is, and I'm still not convinced he's this specimen of a leader some say he is, but GOD he has heart. They had no running game and their line wasn't blocking very well at all, and Jake kept comin' back. In my opinion, had it not been for Jake the Panthers would have been out of that game early in the 3rd quarter...game over.

I'll go on record and say that Jake Delhomme is one hell of a football player. He played his guts out yesterday, and it was sad to see him on the sidelines after the game. I thought the guy was gonna cry, and I couldn't have blamed him if he did. No question he left it ALL on the field, and that's really all you can ask of the guy. Had the Panters won that game (and Jake didn't loose it for 'em) there's no question who the MVP of the Superbowl would have been.

Finally, in a game that was supposed to suck, I think it was one of the best Superbowls I've ever seen, and Jake is the guy, in my opinion, that made that happen. He just woulnd't let his team lose. For those of you who have stubbornly supported Jake, let me say I still think Brooks should be the Saints QB, but as I've said before, I'm all about credit where credit is due, and Jake Delhomme deserves a LOT of credit. More than winning or losing yesterday, Jake proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he belongs in the NFL as a starting QB. I'm still glad the Panthers lost, but I have a new respect for Jake Delhomme. I still think he and his team were incredibly lucky this year, and I think their luck finally ran out on 'em, but I can't take a thing away from Jake Delhomme. Congradulations to JAKE DELHOMME. He represented himself VERY well in the biggest sporting event in the world...what more can you ask?

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Very good post! I sometimes think, it\'s a shame we can\'t all see these things. It was a great game. Both teams left it all out there. Thats what Pro football is all about. I just hope that our Saints watched and learned some valuable lessons from that game. Maybe at some point,before I die, I will see a New Orleans Saints win a Super Bowl with an effort just like that.

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

I will give credit where credit is due as well. It took a lot to step up and post that Saintfan. Good post - I\'ll hold it against you time and again! ;) LOL

PS - Your crow is still in the mail! :P

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

I\'ll have a bite Whodat. This doesn\'t change my opinion of many of your opinions, but I\'m not gonna (nor have I ever) attempt to reduce what Jake did yesterday to fuel an argument with you...or anyone else. I\'m still of the opinion that Haz should get another year, and I\'m still of the opinion that Brooks is not the weak link for the Saints, but again I say Jake deserves all the credit in the world for his game yesterday. The Panthers lived on good fortune all year in my opinion, and maybe it just caught up to \'em when that kick when out of bounds with 68 seconds left. Live by the sword...die by the sword. The MVP going to Brady is up for debate, but had Carolina won there\'s no question who the MVP would have been. That\'s what it boils down to for me.

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Hold the presses

Does this mean you would have to second guess your position on the great Jake Delhomme conspiracy theory ??? :o

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Not for a second 08. I think Haz made a decision to start Brooks because he didn\'t think Brooks couldn\'t play. I DO NOT think Haz was part of a conspiracy theory to keep Jake Delhomme off the field.

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Even inspite of this earlier report ??


Saints lose their last three games when they needed to win just one to make the playoffs. Saw Haslett stick to his guns and insist his quarterback was perfectly fine, when anybody with a pair of eyes and three brain cells knew different.

The Saints admitted as much after the season when they disclosed that Brooks would need surgery to repair his injured shoulder.

Billy Joe Tolliver, who played for the Saints in the late 1990s and urged the Haslett regime to keep Delhomme, said it was a delicate situation.

\"All those coaches wanted to see Delhomme on that field and see what he could do,\" Tolliver said. \"But they\'ve also got some issues in that locker room. . . .

\"Jake\'s going to go in there, and he\'s going to play his (butt) off, and then what do you do now? Now you\'re dividing your team.\"

Great. They avoided a controversy.

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

My personal opinion if anybody cares is that I truly believe that Brooks would have done just as well as Jake did, if not better, in both the regualr season and the superbowl.

Jake did exactly what most of us thought he would. New England committed to stopping Davis and was going to force Delhomme to beat them. They did, and Jake almost did. Jake made some great throws. All of which I\'ve seen our boy make repeatedly.

And yes, if Carolina had won Jake would have been the MVP, no question.

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

08 --

I\'m not saying that Haz didn\'t make a judgement call. What I\'m saying is that there was no conspiracy theory to keep Delhomme off the field. That insinuates that Haz had some sort of vendetta against Jake, and I just don\'t buy it. Did Jim think Brooks was well enough to play? It would seem so, but you\'ll have to ask him. Delhomme at the time said he played through the very same injury in College. Brooks\' numbers were down, but I and plenty of others maintain the Saints could have (and should have) won one of those games anyway. Whether or not Jim made the right call will forevermore depend on whom you ask, and I (we -- this entire board) already know your opinion. Jake is gone 08, and it\'s time for you to move on too...

[Edited on 2/2/2004 by saintfan]

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

So what you are saying is , inspite of comments made within the team and from players that were with the team when Delhomme was there .

and Joe Horn who clearly states :

And what the world saw :

You think :

Not what the players think:

:casstet:

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

08 --

I realize your mind won\'t be changed, but none of those quotes indicate Haz \"conspired\" to keep Jake off the field. Some question the wisdom of not starting Jake, and I can understand that, but non of those quotes point to a conspiracy theory.

conspiracy -- an unlawful plot

conspire -- to plan together secretly, esp. to commit a crime...to work together toward a single end

Again I say...whether it was bad judgement or not depends on whom you ask. To say it was a conspiracy is a real reach.

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Great post.

You\'ve just gained quite a bit of credibility in my eyes.

(Please don\'t interpret that comment as condescending.)

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Clearly there were those within the organization that wanted Jake Delhomme to be put in the game .

Despite this Haslett continued to play an injured quarterback .

For what reason would he do such a thing .

As clearly stated , not to divide the team .

Haslett with sole command of the team as Head coach , made a decision not based upon how to win the games in the end of 2002 and get into the play offs , but how not to divide the team .

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Hey Saintfan - I don\'t think there was a conspiracy either, BUT, you don\'t think the fact that the Saints had had a QB controversy a year earlier, and that they had just paid Brooks $36 million, and that his confidence was already shaky, and the fact that the locker room was nuts, MIGHT have influenced Haslett\'s decision?

That seems very realistic to me. I mean, the guy sees three cream puffs on the schedule and starts thinking long term. We\'ll get by these teams - or at least enough of them to make the playoffs. That\'s all that really matters. Why hurt Brooks\' confidence? The kid is already under a ton of pressure from the fans and media. Why not help his confidence, avoid another controversy in the locker room, and gear up for the playoffs? Seems realistic to me.

But if Haslett did that then he was considering things other than play on the field and which QB put the Saints in better situations to win each week. You don\'t do that in the NFL when the playoffs are on the line. If it\'s week one, maybe. If you\'re training a young star to replace a crafty vet - OK. But if you\'re 9-4 and need one win to get in, you play whomever gives you the best chance at being 10-4. Then you worry about everything else.

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Whodat --

In the interest of keeping things civil -- and in an attempt to acknowledge all opinions -- I can only say that your thoughts are indeed possible. Maybe Haz didn\'t want a controversy at QB (I don\'t think Brooks/Blake was a controversy tho).

Looking back always provides a more complete view. The thing is that we have to assume that putting Jake in for those last three games was a no-brainer. I know some of you bang your head against the wall because you think it was a no-brainer, but I\'m just not so sure. Jake had played well and there\'s no reason to assume he wouldn\'t have played well again, but if Haz really thought Brooks could play (and who\'s to say he didn\'t) then you have to allow him to play Brooks. Also, what you\'re saying must mean that Haz knew damn well Jake was a better QB (if even for three games) than Brooks was and that he purposfully tanked those games to save the ego of Brooks, and you could be right as rain...or you could be way off base. If you think Haz did that then that\'s what you think, but I disagree.

To think Haz tanked those last three games means you (not you in particular) have to think the games were lost on the arm of the QB. You can no longer take into account poor blocking or poorly executed plays or dropped passes etc. You have to Blame Brooks entirely. I watched those games and I do not. You have to think Haz made a consious decision. You have to think he actually said to himslef, \"I could win these games with Jake, but I\'m not gonna play him because I want to protect Brooks\' ego.\" That means that Haz would stake his career as a coach on the ego of Aaron Brooks, and I just don\'t think that\'s the case.

I watched those games and I can honestly say I don\'t think that\'s the case. I\'m also not saying that the Saints wouldn\'t have won with Jake. I\'m saying those games were lost for reasons that go beyond the play of AB...even tho his numbers were indeed down. Because I believe that I cannot believe 08\'s conspiracy theory nor can I believe that Haz made a consious decision to lose.

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

I am raising my pinkie to you too as I drink my tea . Hope I don\'t nod off in my crumpets .....

If you can agree that Brooks leadership ability was in question and Delhomme was a local fan favorite , then you can see how certain locker room questions and local media might have reacted towards Delhomme doing well and potentially getting them into the playoffs .

Consider the following :

Haslett had just finished dealing with Roaf on a locker room drama the previous year . Turley had vocalized himself towards Brooks . As Haslett looked down the barrel of the Home grown debate for the quarterback position , he might have said \" I need to do whatever I can to avoid this distraction to the team \" .Thus he keep Delhomme out of the game .

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Brooks\' leadership and Jake\'s popularity have exactly what to do with this supposed theory that Haz tanked games on purpose? No guessing...no assuming...no speculating. See, whether Haz thought Brooks was well enough to play can ONLY be answered by Haz, and he answered it. If you watched the games and viewed them fairly then you can\'t honestly tell me you think Brooks cost them those last three games on his own. Well, YOU might assume it, but as I\'ve said before, we (this entire board) already know how you feel. Jake is gone and it\'s time for you to move on 08...in my opinion. I\'m not going to agree with your supposed conspiracy theory now and I never will...accept that...get on over it. 2004 is here 08...get out of 2002 already!

It should also be acknowledged that you\'ve taken yet another thread and hijacked it. A thread that was intended to give Jake his props has been turned into yet another QB debate by YOU. I guess you\'re trying to keep the debate going. Jake IS GONE 08...like it or not. The way I see it you\'ve got a choice. Jake\'s is over there playin for Carolina. I\'m sure they\'d welcome you. They don\'t know you like I do...yet! ;)

[Edited on 3/2/2004 by saintfan]

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Blame it on Horn :

Horn emphasized that he wasn\'t criticizing Brooks. I\'m not here to bash Brooks either. I\'m here to bash the man responsible for denying Delhomme a chance to start with the Saints.

He opened the can of worms .

Any thoughts on Horn bashing Haslett ???

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

Hey Saintfan, I\'m all for civility. You make some valid points - of course I still take issue with some of the ones above. I\'m not suggesting that Haslett knew full well that Jake was a better option and purposefully tanked the season. What I am suggesting is that Haslett may have either been blinded by other things besides play on the field, and/or he may never have expected to lose three straight to the teams left on our schedule. My point is, maybe he thought - \"Yeah, Jake may be a better option right now, but Brooks is the key down the line. Why hurt his confidence right before a playoff run? There\'s no way that we won\'t pick up three wins against these teams, so why worry about it?\"

That doesn\'t necessarily translate into wrongful acts or purposeful negligence, but it\'s negligent none the less. If that is how he looked at it, I can\'t really blame Haslett for being confident. At 9-4 I was still toying with scenarios in which the Saints won the division. I doubted it, but it was entirely possible. So, OK, you go with Brooks in game one. By game two you have to be getting worried. Game three - well, at the half when one of the league\'s highest scoring offenses has 3 points or whatever they had scored, and you\'ve watched your starter struggle for four straight games two of which he had to be taken out of, and the playoffs are on the line, and you don\'t put a backup who you said could start in a lot of places around the league in the game for a single series. Yeah, something is fishy there. Maybe not malicious, but there\'s a major disconnect in that logic.

I Feel Bad For Jake
 

compare coaches. real coaches win. they put the players in that will win. divide the team? thats their friggin ego problem. look what the pats did. they cut that stud back lawyer miloy or whoever he was.. then they get BEAT DOWN opening day by the team that signed him, the bills. ohhh... was he concerned about hurting fans feelings? dividing the team? hell no, he\'s a great coach who just proceeded to win 15 in a row because he is CONFIDENT in his coaching decisions and that single move in the offseason told every player on that team that noone was safe and you\'re going to have to play your ass off to stick around. bring your ego to the bills locker room. we play football here.

why they gotta make it so damn hard to support the saints?