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From the 08 propaganda file

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; The same song and dance always applies to Haslett personnel decisions, \"He\'s got a LOT of POTENTIAL, he just hasn\'t developed it.\" This same statement applies to Brooks, Stallworth, Hodge, T-Sucky, Sullivan or just about anyone else Haslett has ever ...

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Old 02-18-2004, 04:14 PM   #31
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From the 08 propaganda file

The same song and dance always applies to Haslett personnel decisions, \"He\'s got a LOT of POTENTIAL, he just hasn\'t developed it.\" This same statement applies to Brooks, Stallworth, Hodge, T-Sucky, Sullivan or just about anyone else Haslett has ever gotten a hold of.
I get the point here. We won\'t get more than two starters from the draft, so why not get one potential dynasty guy instead of two so-so guys. And I agree that Haslett doesn\'t seem to have a knack for developing talent. HOWEVER, I\'m not sure that statement above is entirely fair. It all depends on who you want to credit the signing and development to. I mean, you listed a few, but what about Howard, Grant, Deuce, Horn, Michael Lewis, Bentley, Boo Williams... those guys have all progressed. No?
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Old 02-18-2004, 05:25 PM   #32
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From the 08 propaganda file

WhoDat, I\'ll quibble with you just a bit. My main idea is that Haslett doesn\'t develop players as a general rule. The starters he gets basically come in ready to play. Once a guy has started for a while, I would say that generally experience will be a good teacher and he will grow. My concern is for guys that are drafted and not ready to start.

As for the specifics
Howard--I think he came in ready to start and has gotten better through experience.
Grant--Basically came in ready to compete for a starting spot or at least to be a situational player and has learned through experience.
Horn--As he wasn\'t a draftee, he doesn\'t fit under my general rule. But you do have me with him, I can\'t really explain why Joe comes to the Saints and just exploded into this pro-bowl player.
Deuce--Was totally ready to start anywhere he went. Were it not for injury concerns he would have gone in the top 10.
Lewis--You may have a point here. But I think the jury is still out on him. All we know for sure is that he can run really fast, but he hasn\'t developed into a dependable receiver.
Bentley--I would argue that he could have gone anywhere and started. I am concerned about LeCharles because he seemed to regress at points this season.
Boo--You have a point. The guy really wasn\'t starting material and he has grown into that. I can\'t explain it. Still not great at blocking, but the guy is a serious receiving threat.

I\'d still basically say that the guys who pan out from the draft are either ready to start or are exceptions the the general rule. Basically, I don\'t think we should worry TOO much about trading picks because Haslett hasn\'t shown that he can do much with a project player--Ojo anyone?

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Old 02-18-2004, 10:38 PM   #33
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From the 08 propaganda file

But Ojo didn\'t make it in NFLE or on any of the other teams he played for. I mean, BMG, we generally agree on this, so this discussion is all academic. However, why is it that when a guy pans out he was \"ready to start\" and experience made him better, but when a guy doesn\'t pan out it is Haslett\'s fault? You think a whole lot of other teams get starters out of their fourth round draft picks with any consistency? Every team looks at the two first rounds for players and everyone else is basically a gamble. You seem to think our fourth round picks don\'t turn into starters b/c Haslett can\'t make them starters. Well, maybe it\'s just that they aren\'t good enough, ya know? Don\'t get me wrong, I think players don\'t progress well under Haslett and generally underachieve - I\'m just challenging you to show me another team that conistently gets value out of their ENTIRE draft class year in and year out. Not many teams have been more successful in the first two or three rounds over the last three years than the Saints.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:19 PM   #34
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From the 08 propaganda file

Every team looks at the two first rounds for players and everyone else is basically a gamble. You seem to think our fourth round picks don\'t turn into starters b/c Haslett can\'t make them starters. Well, maybe it\'s just that they aren\'t good enough, ya know? Don\'t get me wrong, I think players don\'t progress well under Haslett and generally underachieve - I\'m just challenging you to show me another team that conistently gets value out of their ENTIRE draft class year in and year out. Not many teams have been more successful in the first two or three rounds over the last three years than the Saints.
I basically agree with you. I\'m not saying that most other teams in the league are getting more starting players from the draft than we are. I think the gold standard this year goes to Indy and Jacksonville who got 4 and 3 starters respectively. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7075376

My basic point is that draft picks are not a panacea. We will not cure what ails this team through this spring\'s draft. I totally agree that players under Haslett don\'t seem to grow and do seem to underachieve. Looking at last season, we came out so slow that I found myself wondering, \"What did these guys do in training camp?\" At any rate, I\'ve noticed some fans who feel that to give up any draft picks would be a fatal mistake. I just don\'t see it that way. If Haslett is lucky he gets 2 starters from the draft. If that\'s the case, why not offer up a few of those picks to secure a guy like Champ Bailey, who we know will force opposing QB\'s to spend a lot more time throwing to the other side of the field?

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Old 02-20-2004, 10:05 AM   #35
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OK, so Haslett or no Haslett, the draft won\'t get us much. Thus, by your reasoning, giving away draft picks is justified if you are getting young proven talent in return. Is that right? If so, I completely agree.

However, consider: let\'s bring Haslett back into this scenario. Since coming here, Haslett & Co. have netted the Saints the following starters through the draft: Deuce, Howard, Bentley, Grant, Stallworth, and Sully (you may be able to add Mitchel to that list this season as well as Stinchcomb, Gardner/Lewis, Cie Grant, and any other players they get in this draft). Even if you discount Stallworth and the maybes I mentioned, you\'re still left with Deuce, Bentley, Grant, Howard, and Sully. Can you name five more valuable players for this franchise?


You see, I\'m very split on this. In principle, I think proven talent is much more valuable than draft picks. However, with Haslett, FA pick ups are rarely PROVEN & EXPERIENCED. THey either look for diamonds in the rough or make block buster trades for athletes who aren\'t necessarily great players. Really, with this crew since the loss of Mueller, it\'s a toss up.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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