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Boutte 11-14-2011 10:38 AM

Critics
 
We won a huge game Sunday and people are still *****ing about play calling on both offense and defense. What's the matter with these people? Nothing. Even though we're 7-3 and lead the division by 2 games there is still a lot that needs to be fixed.

We showed a lot of heart by hanging tough against a good team that is very tough to beat in their stadium so I don't want to sound too negative but our defense is soft. We practically gift wrap 3rd downs conversion and we can't get a turn over to save our life. On offense we struggle to run the ball when we NEED to.

In some ways this game was more about the Falcons choking than it was about us playing great football. The idiotic decision to go for it on 4th down on their own 30 was the difference in the game. Roddy White was our MVP yesterday, dropping game winning passes and committing stupid fouls at crucial times in the game.

Parity is good thing for NFL fans but it also means that there really aren't any great teams anymore (with the possible exception of G.B.). It seems that the secret to success now is to be exceptional in one phase of the game. With all the rule changes it's almost impossible to be great on defense. Luckily for us we have Sean Payton who is a genius when it comes to what matters most in todays NFL, passing. Of course if he didn't have Drew Brees our opinion of him might be a lot different. Put those two together and we have one the great passing teams ever. But because of that we are going to be mediocre and even poor in other phases of the game. With the salary cap you just can't have great talent on both sides of the ball.

Having said that, I don't think our talent on defense is as bad as it looks. We have some have good players on the D Line and and a very talented backfield. Yet the defense is lousy. That falls squarely on the head of Gregg Williams. How can you leave the middle of the field wide open on third down time and time again? It's not a failure by the players, it's the scheme. And the scheme sucks.

The only thing that's keeping us from being a dominant team is Gregg Williams.

saintfan 11-14-2011 10:41 AM

That was a hard-fought game against a tough division opponent. We were able to come out on top, in their house, even though we didn't play anywhere near our best game.

Our defense hasn't found itself yet, but I'm starting to think it will. For all the big plays Atlanta managed the D came up big when it had to yesterday.

We're 7-3 with a week off. Onward and Upward!

strato 11-14-2011 10:42 AM

Kinda like not give "Steady Shanle no credit....lol

AlaskaSaints 11-14-2011 10:52 AM

Hard-fought games are learning/teaching moments.

The view through a critical eye reveals what is actual. To view yesterday's game through only "YAY, WE WON" ignores what actually happened.

Yes. Credit to the Falcons for being a constant competitive nemesis. Hate them all you want but we always struggle with them and it makes us a better team.

We had them beaten handily (more than 3) and allowed them to stay in the game. Very frustrating.

We could have beaten the Colts in Superbowl 44 by 3, but we beat them HANDILY and that leaves a more favorable memory in the mind of every football fan.

We are not yet ready for the Packers. That is what scares me, because the road to the Superbowl will very likely go through Lambeau.

Alaska

AlaskaSaints 11-14-2011 10:56 AM

On the funny side, look back at the way Shanle handled that ball after he caught it... Scary. He nearly fumbled it carrying it with two left hands. It's clear he doesn't handle a ball much.

But he didn't and I'm happy with that. This morning was like Christmas morning in the Shanle household!

Alaska

Ashley 11-14-2011 11:14 AM

This can be very true about Gregg. Our d just plain sucks, always seems like guys are out of place or just to far off the receivers.

homerj07 11-14-2011 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 348775)
That was a hard-fought game against a tough division opponent. We were able to come out on top, in their house, even though we didn't play anywhere near our best game.

Our defense hasn't found itself yet, but I'm starting to think it will. For all the big plays Atlanta managed the D came up big when it had to yesterday.

We're 7-3 with a week off. Onward and Upward!

\\

Damn - If our defense has NOT found itself yet WHEN THE HELL WILL THEY PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES & DO SO?

Our LBs SUCK & GW is NOT a good coach.

saintfan 11-14-2011 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerj07 (Post 348840)
\\

Damn - If our defense has NOT found itself yet WHEN THE HELL WILL THEY PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES & DO SO?

Our LBs SUCK & GW is NOT a good coach.

Gotta have faith man. They aren't going to be the Ravens "D". They bowed up yesterday - a number of times - so at least for the moment they're trending in the right direction.

RaginCajun83 11-14-2011 12:50 PM

GW really needs to simplify the defense since these "exotic" blitzes aren't doing a thing, something the best way is the easiest way. I have to agree and since we already saw it once, how is this defense going to stop Green Bay or any other half decent offense they see in the playoffs, I watched the game on DVR last night and I still wanted to throw something at my tv cause I was still seeing DBs playing 10 yards off the line of scrimmage, good grief

mighty12 11-14-2011 12:56 PM

Some people have quickly forgotten about our defense from 2006 through 2008. Williams is fine and better than the alternative.

Euphoria 11-14-2011 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mighty12 (Post 348852)
Some people have quickly forgotten about our defense from 2006 through 2008. Williams is fine and better than the alternative.

We aren't to far off from having the D from those days... that is why there is some serous concern here. GW isn't getting the job done.

We but 11 guys out there and hope we only need one good maybe 2 good stops in order to win a game.

Michigan_SF 11-14-2011 01:12 PM

The game was gut-wrenching at the time but on further review the result is W for the Saints, L for the Failcons. If we go 2-14 and sweep the Failcons I'm good although another SB would be kinda cool too. We can get all these things this year.

iceshack149 11-14-2011 02:01 PM

I think that the defense played pretty good yesterday. They seemed to wear down towards the end of regulation but they did fine yesterday.

I think that some of you forget that the other team has good players too. The Saints aren't going to whip up on teams often because of parity. Parity is one of the many reasons that this is the best sport on the planet.

neugey 11-14-2011 02:08 PM

Defense made some big stops yesterday and was playing hard.

It does get frustrating watching Williams blitz over and over and over and it only forcing hurries not sacks. It feels like I'm bankrolling a high-risk crap shooter.

strato 11-14-2011 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neugey (Post 348895)
Defense made some big stops yesterday and was playing hard.

It does get frustrating watching Williams blitz over and over and over and it only forcing hurries not sacks. It feels like I'm bankrolling a high-risk crap shooter.


I know ..but that did cause Meg to miss throws most of the game...he got a lot of garbage in the prevent..thats what i hate when you have a team on the ropes..backing off..

halloween 65 11-14-2011 02:54 PM

If we tackled it would help, if we stop playing that stupid prevent D that would help, I like the pressure we had yesterday with the blitzing, not a lot of extra time for Ryan. Our D-players are not bad but they miss to many tackles period. I don't know if there is a NFL stat. for missed tackles, if it is I bet we lead the league, that pi$$'s me off about this team more than anything, we don't blow coverage, we are always in good position to make tackles, no team really man handles us. We just don't tackle, we might as well be playing flag football, and as much as I love G.W. I blame him, he is the D-coach and if he wont put a foot in his players a$$, Payton needs to put a foot in his. No excuses...

Boutte 11-14-2011 06:34 PM

Just because we sucked with Gibbs doesn't mean we should settle for being slightly better.

SaintPauly 11-15-2011 12:25 AM

I look at it like this, we won the game, without our best defensive force in Vilma, and that says alot. My biggest problem, I guess, is that our D-line still seems asleep. Jordan, I think NOW, is going to be a great player in the next few years. Sedrick is solid also, but Smith, Franklin, and Rogers all seem to be content with mediocrity.... We NEED to address Dline in the draft, and FA, in the off season.

The Dude 11-15-2011 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boutte (Post 348770)
We won a huge game Sunday and people are still *****ing about play calling on both offense and defense. What's the matter with these people? Nothing. Even though we're 7-3 and lead the division by 2 games there is still a lot that needs to be fixed.

We showed a lot of heart by hanging tough against a good team that is very tough to beat in their stadium so I don't want to sound too negative but our defense is soft. We practically gift wrap 3rd downs conversion and we can't get a turn over to save our life. On offense we struggle to run the ball when we NEED to.

In some ways this game was more about the Falcons choking than it was about us playing great football. The idiotic decision to go for it on 4th down on their own 30 was the difference in the game. Roddy White was our MVP yesterday, dropping game winning passes and committing stupid fouls at crucial times in the game.

Parity is good thing for NFL fans but it also means that there really aren't any great teams anymore (with the possible exception of G.B.). It seems that the secret to success now is to be exceptional in one phase of the game. With all the rule changes it's almost impossible to be great on defense. Luckily for us we have Sean Payton who is a genius when it comes to what matters most in todays NFL, passing. Of course if he didn't have Drew Brees our opinion of him might be a lot different. Put those two together and we have one the great passing teams ever. But because of that we are going to be mediocre and even poor in other phases of the game. With the salary cap you just can't have great talent on both sides of the ball.

Having said that, I don't think our talent on defense is as bad as it looks. We have some have good players on the D Line and and a very talented backfield. Yet the defense is lousy. That falls squarely on the head of Gregg Williams. How can you leave the middle of the field wide open on third down time and time again? It's not a failure by the players, it's the scheme. And the scheme sucks.

The only thing that's keeping us from being a dominant team is Gregg Williams.

I agree. Of course I am happy we won, but it is hard for me to turn a blind eye to the blatant and obvious problems we have. I love this team and will watch every game and support them even if they never win another game. I want a Super Bowl. To me that is the whole point and what these guys are ultimately playing for. Yea we won, but I watch games and compare our players and our team to other playoff teams in the league. From what I have seen playing the kind of ball we did Sunday may be good enough to beat the Falcons but it is not good enough to beat teams like Green Bay, San Francisco, or possibly even the Giants. I watch this team hoping to see improvement in certain areas and to this point in the season I have not seen any. The offensive line continues to struggle run blocking and we flat out do not know how to tackle. Playcalling can be fixed, albeit it has not been, but you cannot fix the lack of fundamentals this team has.

Oh well, we are legitimate contenders and when we are on we can hang with any team in the league, IF we happen to get them when we are hitting on all cylinders. Could be worse.

Maverick2299 11-15-2011 09:26 AM

I actually think the defense played better then the offense. Saints only came away with 2 TD and had to settle for long field goals in which Kasey was spot on.

The D shut down J.Jones, Held turner under 100 yards rushing, White only had 4 catches. The D forced a turnover. While they only recorded one sack , they held Atlanta to 5 of 16 on third down. They played very well in the red Zone holding the falcons to 6 points in the first half.

The falcons are better then there record shows and we beat them on there turf.

The only team that looks amazing is the Packers. All the teams are struggling this year. 49ers are playing well. You cant honestly say you see more improvement on other teams unless you watch every game ever week.

Kryptonite 11-15-2011 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick2299 (Post 349302)
I actually think the defense played better then the offense. Saints only came away with 2 TD and had to settle for long field goals in which Kasey was spot on.

The D shut down J.Jones, Held turner under 100 yards rushing, White only had 4 catches. The D forced a turnover. While they only recorded one sack , they held Atlanta to 5 of 16 on third down. They played very well in the red Zone holding the falcons to 6 points in the first half.

The falcons are better then there record shows and we beat them on there turf.

The only team that looks amazing is the Packers. All the teams are struggling this year. 49ers are playing well. You cant honestly say you see more improvement on other teams unless you watch every game ever week.


I think the D has been playing better than the O for a while now. I know most of you won't agree, but i'm just calling it like I see it. They are the more inconsistant of the two. We know what defense is going to show up every week. Can't say that about the offense. They (defense) are going to give up some yardage and big plays throughout the game, but they are are going to make a couple crucial stops as well. The problem with that is we soon forget about those stops because 3 plays later the defense is back on the field. Now, because they have not been able to catch their breathe, they are giving up another big play. This happens more often than not.

There are plenty of times when teams drive the lengh of the field only to come out with an FG. That's a victory for the defense. But when our offense is doing the same damn thing, or 3 and outs, that's asking alot from a supposedly mediocre defense.

After watching GB play for the past few games, if our offense doesn't get as aggressive and TD determined as they (GB) are then we can forget about going deep into the playoffs. This is an offensive driven league now and all we can ask our defense to do is get a couple of crucial stops. Offense needs to get its head out of its @rse and get with the program.

Mardigras9 11-15-2011 09:49 PM

Morestead put the Falcons on their 6yd line. The D gave up two 20+ passing plays back to back (same play from each side of the field). Then for some reason we held them in the red zone (again for this game) . We were real lucky to get out of there with a win leading by 10 with less than 4 1/2 mins. Great win, don't get me wrong, but not ready to say this shows great improvements. It is always war with Atlanta, and we'll take this one. Now we have to crush them in the Dome and leave no doubts.

SaintsBro 11-16-2011 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardigras9 (Post 349590)
We were real lucky to get out of there with a win leading by 10 with less than 4 1/2 mins. Great win, don't get me wrong, but not ready to say this shows great improvements. It is always war with Atlanta, and we'll take this one. Now we have to crush them in the Dome and leave no doubts.


I know what you mean, ridiculous that they did all that from the 6, but that is what Atlanta ALWAYS DOES to us -- they hang around until the very end, and often get a bunch of points, in desperation, borderline garbage time. They're like the Monty Python "But I'm not dead yet" guy.

Specifically against Atlanta, the problem is that the Saints need to figure out how to "STEP ON THE NECK" and keep that separation, once they get it. And that's both offense and defense.

This has happened plenty of times now -- the Monday night game in the Superdome in '09 the Saints were up 28-14, really starting to take charge, and still it came down to the wire, because the Falcons kept chugging away. It might have not been the red zone but it was close, at the end of the game Ryan was still chucking the ball to our goal line, hoping for a cheap flag or a miracle -- same deal. The December game in the Georgia Dome late last year was kinda similar as well -- we had the lead and the Saints were just about to separate and pull away, when Drew threw that kooky pick 6. And then the Saints defense took away the Falcons' weapons and HELD them again when it really counted, TWICE. It's always like this against the Falcons, folks, and we still win 9 out of 11 of these games!

The defense can certainly improve, NO DOUBT about that. But the real problem is not firing Gregg Williams or Scott Shanle, it's these lapses that happen at what should be crucial "STEP ON THE NECK" moments -- like the Marshawn Lynch run, the Harry Douglas One Man Show, or that other play on Sunday where there were 7 Saints flopping around who couldn't make the tackle on that one guy. Fix THAT, get some more turnovers, and I think this defense would suddenly start to look a LOT more like the '09 defense that everybody loved. And they need to re-learn how to STEP ON THE NECK on offense, too.


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