The 08 Theory is Viable

WhoDat · 02-18-2004, 10:09 PM

How much do you two think Eli would cost the Saints?

I will say this - Saintfan said in another thread that if the Saints signed Eli that would be it for their FA period, and he seemed skeptical that Bouman could run the show while Eli developed.

While I will agree that Eli is an unproven commodity, I do think Bouman could run the ship pretty well. Also, if what 08 and BMG are hoping for does come to pass, the Saints may actually save money (both in salary and towards the cap). I mean, what\'s Brooks costing us right now? $6 mill a year? I doubt that Eli would be much more costly than that - or am I off? So, Wilson, Springs or Bryant, a DT somewhere and Eli Manning wouldn\'t hurt my feelings. I still think it\'s really unlikely, but I will say that this idea wouldn\'t necessarily hurt the Saint financially. Plus, a Saints backup proved he had what it takes to be a starter in this league this year. Our former backup before him is our current starter, and our current backup Haslett wanted as our starter in the first place. Point is - I don\'t think it is fair to say Bouman can\'t lead this team. We don\'t know that. I find it hard to believe he is as inconsistent as Brooks. No one is.

BrooksMustGo · 02-18-2004, 10:59 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/story?id=1544068

Well Palmer\'s deal last year was worth $18.25 million for the first 3 years.
Carr\'s the year before was worth $16.25 for the first 3 years.

If we managed to trade with the Chargers I would like to think we could land somewhere in between these two figures. But even if we duplicated the Palmer deal, we\'d end up paying Eli what we\'re already paying Brooks. At $20.6 under the cap and the possibility of clearing $3-4 million more with the release of Carter, I hardly think that Eli would end our free agency. Besides the entire league has to operate under the rookie signing limits. I can\'t imagine Eli holding out and I can\'t imagine burning the entire rookie fund up on one guy.

Getting rid of the Brooks salary would not hurt the cause either. I can\'t see us going and getting Champ Bailey if we got Eli, but I don\'t see us giving up two #1\'s for Champ either.

I think we could realistically have this sort of free agency if we traded up for Eli.
Jeremiah Trotter -- maybe Al Wilson, but I\'m guessing he gets tagged.
Ted Washington -- Robaire Smith would be great, but his stock seems to be going up
Ahmed Plummer/Shawn Springs/Fernando Bryant -- all seem to be similiar in cost

Cadillac · 02-18-2004, 11:55 PM

Eli Manning is half hype anyways. Rothlisberger will turn out to be the better QB.

saintz08 · 02-19-2004, 12:08 AM

Haz and company rendering them totally in control of anti-saint little green aliens from Uranus.

Seeing this statement , makes me think of Brooks in a Green Bay packers uniform .....

saintz08 · 02-19-2004, 12:42 AM

Eli Manning is half hype anyways.

When compared to Peyton, Eli has a stronger arm, better mechanics and is more accurate. The only question is whether he has the intangibles? Coaches and scouts claim that Eli has the same work ethic that has made Peyton the best quarterback in the NFL.

Final Say: The only question about EliÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s success is who drafts him and how soon does he suit up. He compares best with his big brother Peyton Manning. After that sit back and relax, because that team will quickly have one of the top quarterbacks in the league, barring injury or a complete mental breakdown.

SFinAustin · 02-19-2004, 08:19 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/story?id=1544068

Well Palmer\'s deal last year was worth $18.25 million for the first 3 years.
Carr\'s the year before was worth $16.25 for the first 3 years.

If we managed to trade with the Chargers I would like to think we could land somewhere in between these two figures. But even if we duplicated the Palmer deal, we\'d end up paying Eli what we\'re already paying Brooks. At $20.6 under the cap and the possibility of clearing $3-4 million more with the release of Carter, I hardly think that Eli would end our free agency. Besides the entire league has to operate under the rookie signing limits. I can\'t imagine Eli holding out and I can\'t imagine burning the entire rookie fund up on one guy.

Getting rid of the Brooks salary would not hurt the cause either. I can\'t see us going and getting Champ Bailey if we got Eli, but I don\'t see us giving up two #1\'s for Champ either.

I think we could realistically have this sort of free agency if we traded up for Eli.
Jeremiah Trotter -- maybe Al Wilson, but I\'m guessing he gets tagged.
Ted Washington -- Robaire Smith would be great, but his stock seems to be going up
Ahmed Plummer/Shawn Springs/Fernando Bryant -- all seem to be similiar in cost

You guys are genius\'s! If Brooks is soooo horrible, why the hell would the Chargers give up the first pick in the draft for him? Do you guys just have everything figured out and all of these pro personnel execs are just stupid?

I understand that you can hide ignorance behind these here usernames but come on! Real world please!!!

whowatches · 02-19-2004, 08:45 AM

Sorry to break up the little circle-jerk

I understand that you can hide ignorance behind these here usernames but come on! Real world please!!!

You can also hide impoliteness, indolence and discourtesy.

I, for one, enjoy reading about 08 and BMG\'s \"cockamamie schemes\" and theories. For those of you that don\'t (and it\'s usually the ones of you who are SO sensitive about Brooks), click on another thread. Ignore this one. 08 has plainly labeled his threads as \'propaganda\' and \'theories\'. Do I think any of them will happen? No. Do I really want all of them to happen? No. But, in FEBRUARY, when nothing else is happening, these threads are entertaining if nothing else.

.02

BrooksMustGo · 02-19-2004, 08:49 AM

If Brooks is soooo horrible, why the hell would the Chargers give up the first pick in the draft for him?

No question that drafting Eli would be the smart move for the Chargers.
However, the Chargers are a unique animal.
1. Marty needs to win more games NOW to keep his job. Brooks would help get him around .500 and keep him in San Diego for another few years.
2. The Chargers want a new stadium deal or to move to LA. LaDanian might be able to get the Chargers into the playoffs with a Brooks-type QB. If the Chargers could make a playoff appearance, the pitch for a new stadium might seem reasonable.
3. Brooks is a known commodity. Yeah, he\'s an 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 kind of guy, but 8-8 is a better option than either of the guys they have there now.
4. Ryan Leaf--Once bitten twice shy.
5. I have NEVER suggested that Brooks alone would get us the top pick. You\'re right, Brooks isn\'t worth that. But if we gave Brooks AND our two second rounders and a conditional pick next year, then maybe they\'d go for it.
6. I\'m not saying they would for sure pull the trigger on that deal. But I am saying, we\'d be stupid not to make the offer.
7. Brooks is probably as good as he\'s ever going to be. I\'d like to trade him while some guy thinks Brooks still has room to grow. Brooks is just a couple of seasons from being Kordell Stewart and we get nothing for him.

Do you guys just have everything figured out and all of these pro personnel execs are just stupid?
I understand that you can hide ignorance behind these here usernames but come on! Real world please!!!

Not claiming to be a football genius, but sometimes the football genius\' don\'t seem that savvy either.
1. Why does Joe Gibbs want to sign Brunnell to a HUGE deal when he has Ramsey?
2. Why did Ditka trade for Schuler?
3. Why hasn\'t Cowher made a decision on the Steelers QB and RB situations?
4. Why does Martz ever draft like he does?
5. Why did the Saints sign Brooks to a HUGE deal before seeing what he could really do?
6. How could Dallas ever convince anyone that the Herschel Walker trade was really a good deal?
7. Why do the Eagles insist on not finding a real receiver for McNabb?
8. Why did Dan Reeves bring Maddux all over the league for a while?
9. How did Mueller think that Carter and Connell were good ideas?
10. Why did Mora insist on keeping Mario Bates?

I can\'t explain the dumb moves that personnel people make. But I know they make them. No one is immune from stupid contracts and overpaying for guys who can\'t get it done. Nowhere is that more evident than at the QB position. Coaches and Execs are constantly suffering for guys that they thought would be good players. But these were all real world moves. Trading a so-so QB to a so-so team to get the first overall pick is not crazy or beyond the realm of possibility.

The only ground you have to stand on is that Haslett has devoted himself to Brooks. Haslett loves Brooks blindly, to his cost. My contention is that the Brooks love will catch up to him and when we have another head coach, I would rather have a franchise QB in Eli than Kordell Stewart that nobody wants because they can\'t kid themselves into thinking that he\'s actually a good QB.

saintfan · 02-19-2004, 09:16 AM

I have NEVER suggested that Brooks alone would get us the top pick. You\'re right, Brooks isn\'t worth that. But if we gave Brooks AND our two second rounders and a conditional pick next year, then maybe they\'d go for it.

What you\'re really saying is sacrifice this years draft for a QB -- mostly because his last name is Manning -- when our offense is CLEARLY (sorry whodat) not the problem.

As I have stated numerous times before, I thank GOD every night that some of you aren\'t in charge. :casstet:

[Edited on 19/2/2004 by saintfan]

SFinAustin · 02-19-2004, 10:05 AM

Sorry to break up the little circle-jerk

I understand that you can hide ignorance behind these here usernames but come on! Real world please!!!

You can also hide impoliteness, indolence and discourtesy.

I, for one, enjoy reading about 08 and BMG\'s \"cockamamie schemes\" and theories. For those of you that don\'t (and it\'s usually the ones of you who are SO sensitive about Brooks), click on another thread. Ignore this one. 08 has plainly labeled his threads as \'propaganda\' and \'theories\'. Do I think any of them will happen? No. Do I really want all of them to happen? No. But, in FEBRUARY, when nothing else is happening, these threads are entertaining if nothing else.

.02

Granted. I haven\'t made this post any better and could have used a better choice of words. I apologize.

Not claiming to be a football genius, but sometimes the football genius\' don\'t seem that savvy either.
1. Why does Joe Gibbs want to sign Brunnell to a HUGE deal when he has Ramsey?
2. Why did Ditka trade for Schuler?
3. Why hasn\'t Cowher made a decision on the Steelers QB and RB situations?
4. Why does Martz ever draft like he does?
5. Why did the Saints sign Brooks to a HUGE deal before seeing what he could really do?
6. How could Dallas ever convince anyone that the Herschel Walker trade was really a good deal?
7. Why do the Eagles insist on not finding a real receiver for McNabb?
8. Why did Dan Reeves bring Maddux all over the league for a while?
9. How did Mueller think that Carter and Connell were good ideas?
10. Why did Mora insist on keeping Mario Bates?

I can\'t explain the dumb moves that personnel people make. But I know they make them. No one is immune from stupid contracts and overpaying for guys who can\'t get it done. Nowhere is that more evident than at the QB position. Coaches and Execs are constantly suffering for guys that they thought would be good players. But these were all real world moves. Trading a so-so QB to a so-so team to get the first overall pick is not crazy or beyond the realm of possibility.

The only ground you have to stand on is that Haslett has devoted himself to Brooks. Haslett loves Brooks blindly, to his cost. My contention is that the Brooks love will catch up to him and when we have another head coach, I would rather have a franchise QB in Eli than Kordell Stewart that nobody wants because they can\'t kid themselves into thinking that he\'s actually a good QB.

I can\'t explain some of the decision made either but I do know that they are educated errors (for the most part).

Furthermore, I don\'t feel Haslett has \"blind\" love for anyone on the team, let alone Brooks. Believe it or not, Brooks has done his share of good in this city.

And, Eli Manning is no less of a crapshoot than any other player in the draft. No more, no less. He isn\'t annointed because he\'s Archie\'s son or Peyton\'s brother.

02-18-2004, 10:09 PM	#11
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	The 08 Theory is Viable How much do you two think Eli would cost the Saints? I will say this - Saintfan said in another thread that if the Saints signed Eli that would be it for their FA period, and he seemed skeptical that Bouman could run the show while Eli developed. While I will agree that Eli is an unproven commodity, I do think Bouman could run the ship pretty well. Also, if what 08 and BMG are hoping for does come to pass, the Saints may actually save money (both in salary and towards the cap). I mean, what\'s Brooks costing us right now? $6 mill a year? I doubt that Eli would be much more costly than that - or am I off? So, Wilson, Springs or Bryant, a DT somewhere and Eli Manning wouldn\'t hurt my feelings. I still think it\'s really unlikely, but I will say that this idea wouldn\'t necessarily hurt the Saint financially. Plus, a Saints backup proved he had what it takes to be a starter in this league this year. Our former backup before him is our current starter, and our current backup Haslett wanted as our starter in the first place. Point is - I don\'t think it is fair to say Bouman can\'t lead this team. We don\'t know that. I find it hard to believe he is as inconsistent as Brooks. No one is.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

02-18-2004, 10:59 PM	#12
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	The 08 Theory is Viable http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/story?id=1544068 Well Palmer\'s deal last year was worth $18.25 million for the first 3 years. Carr\'s the year before was worth $16.25 for the first 3 years. If we managed to trade with the Chargers I would like to think we could land somewhere in between these two figures. But even if we duplicated the Palmer deal, we\'d end up paying Eli what we\'re already paying Brooks. At $20.6 under the cap and the possibility of clearing $3-4 million more with the release of Carter, I hardly think that Eli would end our free agency. Besides the entire league has to operate under the rookie signing limits. I can\'t imagine Eli holding out and I can\'t imagine burning the entire rookie fund up on one guy. Getting rid of the Brooks salary would not hurt the cause either. I can\'t see us going and getting Champ Bailey if we got Eli, but I don\'t see us giving up two #1\'s for Champ either. I think we could realistically have this sort of free agency if we traded up for Eli. Jeremiah Trotter -- maybe Al Wilson, but I\'m guessing he gets tagged. Ted Washington -- Robaire Smith would be great, but his stock seems to be going up Ahmed Plummer/Shawn Springs/Fernando Bryant -- all seem to be similiar in cost
	http://www.blackandgold.net/site/signature/buddysig.jpg

02-18-2004, 11:55 PM	#13
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	The 08 Theory is Viable Eli Manning is half hype anyways. Rothlisberger will turn out to be the better QB.
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121

02-19-2004, 12:08 AM	#14
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	The 08 Theory is Viable Haz and company rendering them totally in control of anti-saint little green aliens from Uranus. Seeing this statement , makes me think of Brooks in a Green Bay packers uniform .....
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

02-19-2004, 12:42 AM	#15
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	The 08 Theory is Viable Eli Manning is half hype anyways. When compared to Peyton, Eli has a stronger arm, better mechanics and is more accurate. The only question is whether he has the intangibles? Coaches and scouts claim that Eli has the same work ethic that has made Peyton the best quarterback in the NFL. Final Say: The only question about EliÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s success is who drafts him and how soon does he suit up. He compares best with his big brother Peyton Manning. After that sit back and relax, because that team will quickly have one of the top quarterbacks in the league, barring injury or a complete mental breakdown.
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

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02-19-2004, 08:19 AM	#16
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176	The 08 Theory is Viable http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/story?id=1544068 Well Palmer\'s deal last year was worth $18.25 million for the first 3 years. Carr\'s the year before was worth $16.25 for the first 3 years. If we managed to trade with the Chargers I would like to think we could land somewhere in between these two figures. But even if we duplicated the Palmer deal, we\'d end up paying Eli what we\'re already paying Brooks. At $20.6 under the cap and the possibility of clearing $3-4 million more with the release of Carter, I hardly think that Eli would end our free agency. Besides the entire league has to operate under the rookie signing limits. I can\'t imagine Eli holding out and I can\'t imagine burning the entire rookie fund up on one guy. Getting rid of the Brooks salary would not hurt the cause either. I can\'t see us going and getting Champ Bailey if we got Eli, but I don\'t see us giving up two #1\'s for Champ either. I think we could realistically have this sort of free agency if we traded up for Eli. Jeremiah Trotter -- maybe Al Wilson, but I\'m guessing he gets tagged. Ted Washington -- Robaire Smith would be great, but his stock seems to be going up Ahmed Plummer/Shawn Springs/Fernando Bryant -- all seem to be similiar in cost You guys are genius\'s! If Brooks is soooo horrible, why the hell would the Chargers give up the first pick in the draft for him? Do you guys just have everything figured out and all of these pro personnel execs are just stupid? I understand that you can hide ignorance behind these here usernames but come on! Real world please!!!
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176

02-19-2004, 08:45 AM	#17
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	The 08 Theory is Viable Sorry to break up the little circle-jerk I understand that you can hide ignorance behind these here usernames but come on! Real world please!!! You can also hide impoliteness, indolence and discourtesy. I, for one, enjoy reading about 08 and BMG\'s \"cockamamie schemes\" and theories. For those of you that don\'t (and it\'s usually the ones of you who are SO sensitive about Brooks), click on another thread. Ignore this one. 08 has plainly labeled his threads as \'propaganda\' and \'theories\'. Do I think any of them will happen? No. Do I really want all of them to happen? No. But, in FEBRUARY, when nothing else is happening, these threads are entertaining if nothing else. .02
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

02-19-2004, 08:49 AM	#18
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	The 08 Theory is Viable If Brooks is soooo horrible, why the hell would the Chargers give up the first pick in the draft for him? No question that drafting Eli would be the smart move for the Chargers. However, the Chargers are a unique animal. 1. Marty needs to win more games NOW to keep his job. Brooks would help get him around .500 and keep him in San Diego for another few years. 2. The Chargers want a new stadium deal or to move to LA. LaDanian might be able to get the Chargers into the playoffs with a Brooks-type QB. If the Chargers could make a playoff appearance, the pitch for a new stadium might seem reasonable. 3. Brooks is a known commodity. Yeah, he\'s an 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 kind of guy, but 8-8 is a better option than either of the guys they have there now. 4. Ryan Leaf--Once bitten twice shy. 5. I have NEVER suggested that Brooks alone would get us the top pick. You\'re right, Brooks isn\'t worth that. But if we gave Brooks AND our two second rounders and a conditional pick next year, then maybe they\'d go for it. 6. I\'m not saying they would for sure pull the trigger on that deal. But I am saying, we\'d be stupid not to make the offer. 7. Brooks is probably as good as he\'s ever going to be. I\'d like to trade him while some guy thinks Brooks still has room to grow. Brooks is just a couple of seasons from being Kordell Stewart and we get nothing for him. Do you guys just have everything figured out and all of these pro personnel execs are just stupid? I understand that you can hide ignorance behind these here usernames but come on! Real world please!!! Not claiming to be a football genius, but sometimes the football genius\' don\'t seem that savvy either. 1. Why does Joe Gibbs want to sign Brunnell to a HUGE deal when he has Ramsey? 2. Why did Ditka trade for Schuler? 3. Why hasn\'t Cowher made a decision on the Steelers QB and RB situations? 4. Why does Martz ever draft like he does? 5. Why did the Saints sign Brooks to a HUGE deal before seeing what he could really do? 6. How could Dallas ever convince anyone that the Herschel Walker trade was really a good deal? 7. Why do the Eagles insist on not finding a real receiver for McNabb? 8. Why did Dan Reeves bring Maddux all over the league for a while? 9. How did Mueller think that Carter and Connell were good ideas? 10. Why did Mora insist on keeping Mario Bates? I can\'t explain the dumb moves that personnel people make. But I know they make them. No one is immune from stupid contracts and overpaying for guys who can\'t get it done. Nowhere is that more evident than at the QB position. Coaches and Execs are constantly suffering for guys that they thought would be good players. But these were all real world moves. Trading a so-so QB to a so-so team to get the first overall pick is not crazy or beyond the realm of possibility. The only ground you have to stand on is that Haslett has devoted himself to Brooks. Haslett loves Brooks blindly, to his cost. My contention is that the Brooks love will catch up to him and when we have another head coach, I would rather have a franchise QB in Eli than Kordell Stewart that nobody wants because they can\'t kid themselves into thinking that he\'s actually a good QB.
	http://www.blackandgold.net/site/signature/buddysig.jpg

02-19-2004, 09:16 AM	#19
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	The 08 Theory is Viable I have NEVER suggested that Brooks alone would get us the top pick. You\'re right, Brooks isn\'t worth that. But if we gave Brooks AND our two second rounders and a conditional pick next year, then maybe they\'d go for it. What you\'re really saying is sacrifice this years draft for a QB -- mostly because his last name is Manning -- when our offense is CLEARLY (sorry whodat) not the problem. As I have stated numerous times before, I thank GOD every night that some of you aren\'t in charge. :casstet: [Edited on 19/2/2004 by saintfan]

02-19-2004, 10:05 AM	#20
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176	The 08 Theory is Viable Sorry to break up the little circle-jerk I understand that you can hide ignorance behind these here usernames but come on! Real world please!!! You can also hide impoliteness, indolence and discourtesy. I, for one, enjoy reading about 08 and BMG\'s \"cockamamie schemes\" and theories. For those of you that don\'t (and it\'s usually the ones of you who are SO sensitive about Brooks), click on another thread. Ignore this one. 08 has plainly labeled his threads as \'propaganda\' and \'theories\'. Do I think any of them will happen? No. Do I really want all of them to happen? No. But, in FEBRUARY, when nothing else is happening, these threads are entertaining if nothing else. .02 Granted. I haven\'t made this post any better and could have used a better choice of words. I apologize. Not claiming to be a football genius, but sometimes the football genius\' don\'t seem that savvy either. 1. Why does Joe Gibbs want to sign Brunnell to a HUGE deal when he has Ramsey? 2. Why did Ditka trade for Schuler? 3. Why hasn\'t Cowher made a decision on the Steelers QB and RB situations? 4. Why does Martz ever draft like he does? 5. Why did the Saints sign Brooks to a HUGE deal before seeing what he could really do? 6. How could Dallas ever convince anyone that the Herschel Walker trade was really a good deal? 7. Why do the Eagles insist on not finding a real receiver for McNabb? 8. Why did Dan Reeves bring Maddux all over the league for a while? 9. How did Mueller think that Carter and Connell were good ideas? 10. Why did Mora insist on keeping Mario Bates? I can\'t explain the dumb moves that personnel people make. But I know they make them. No one is immune from stupid contracts and overpaying for guys who can\'t get it done. Nowhere is that more evident than at the QB position. Coaches and Execs are constantly suffering for guys that they thought would be good players. But these were all real world moves. Trading a so-so QB to a so-so team to get the first overall pick is not crazy or beyond the realm of possibility. The only ground you have to stand on is that Haslett has devoted himself to Brooks. Haslett loves Brooks blindly, to his cost. My contention is that the Brooks love will catch up to him and when we have another head coach, I would rather have a franchise QB in Eli than Kordell Stewart that nobody wants because they can\'t kid themselves into thinking that he\'s actually a good QB. I can\'t explain some of the decision made either but I do know that they are educated errors (for the most part). Furthermore, I don\'t feel Haslett has \"blind\" love for anyone on the team, let alone Brooks. Believe it or not, Brooks has done his share of good in this city. And, Eli Manning is no less of a crapshoot than any other player in the draft. No more, no less. He isn\'t annointed because he\'s Archie\'s son or Peyton\'s brother.
SFinAustin 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176

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