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Jeff Duncan couldn't be more wrong if he said 2+2=8

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by SloMotion Well, if I may interject ..... and it's just my perspective because I just can't seem to stay out of a good football conversation ..... turnovers are the most important stat in football, and that's not ...

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Old 01-21-2012, 07:14 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by SloMotion View Post
Well, if I may interject ..... and it's just my perspective because I just can't seem to stay out of a good football conversation ..... turnovers are the most important stat in football, and that's not to point fingers at the offense either. SFran scored, what?, 14pts on the turnovers? It made all the difference.

These two quotes stuck out the most in the article to me: "First and foremost, the 49ers simply made more big plays than the Saints." ... "Forget all the talk about the running game and defense winning championships. In today's NFL, games are won and lost by big plays." Both ring true.

Today's game is light years away (and I feel a blog coming on) from what it used to be, and you win by thinking 'outside the box'. Greg Williams was thinking 'outside the box', he had 'em on the ropes and he was gonna' finish 'em. He just blitzed 'em on the previous play and figured no way they would expect it again. It's the killer instinct you want to see in a defensive coordinator. Personally, I think it was a bonehead move in that type situation, but as it has been so eloquently pointed out, "hindsight is 20/20". Who's to say what I woulda' done in that situation, go for the glory or err on the side of caution? Be the hero, be the goat ..... that's what was going through GW's mind. He took a shot. IDK, maybe he knew he was on the way out?

Not sticking up for Williams, I'd rather have Spagnualo anyway, just think the turnovers were more a factor then your defense. I keep going back to the four lead changes in the last four minutes ..... SFran didn't beat you guys, they just outlasted you.
Turnovers were a direct result of San Fran's defense. People keep pointing out that turnovers were something we had control over as if we were somehow able to control when they happened. That's a load of a croc.

San Fran's defense did little in the last 4 minutes as our offense got exponentially better. They didn't really outlast us what happened was that our defense completely fell apart in the end. Don't you think it's strange that we were able to contain the niners all game and then somehow just fold like a wet noodle in the end? GW's blitzing is a double edged sword of which we came out on the wrong side in the last 4 minutes.

Folks rightly blame GW because you have to put this game in context of his three year tenure. Our defense really has struggled to get pressure and turnovers. You can see how much lesser we have performed without Sharper. GW's scheme frankly didn't work for us and it epically failed in probably one of of not the the worst loss we have ever suffered in the playoffs.

That game really did showcase the ineptitude of GW's system.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:17 AM   #12
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And yes I agree that Duncan can hold hands with the rest of the GW apologists like Ralph Marlborough and get a job in st Louis where they can cover GW's jock to their hearts content.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:57 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by westbankdaze View Post
Turnovers were a direct result of San Fran's defense. People keep pointing out that turnovers were something we had control over as if we were somehow able to control when they happened. That's a load of a croc.

San Fran's defense did little in the last 4 minutes as our offense got exponentially better. They didn't really outlast us what happened was that our defense completely fell apart in the end. Don't you think it's strange that we were able to contain the niners all game and then somehow just fold like a wet noodle in the end? GW's blitzing is a double edged sword of which we came out on the wrong side in the last 4 minutes.

Folks rightly blame GW because you have to put this game in context of his three year tenure. Our defense really has struggled to get pressure and turnovers. You can see how much lesser we have performed without Sharper. GW's scheme frankly didn't work for us and it epically failed in probably one of of not the the worst loss we have ever suffered in the playoffs.

That game really did showcase the ineptitude of GW's system.
Well, I agree with you that turnovers are generally something you can't control (unless your QB is Tony Romo) and are a result of the defense stepping up, which is why I didn't point fingers at the offense.

I can't really comment on GW's entire tenure because I haven't been around that long, but I do see the point that his scheme didn't work for you guys. What I saw in that game with the defense was you guys were playing on the edge and really making the most of the talent that you had. Getting down early by 17 and then playing from behind most the game didn't really make me think the D necessarily 'contained' the 49ers the entire game and then folded in the end, but they did keep you guys in the game and allow you to come back, which is basically what teams with high-powered offenses are designed to do, ie NE, GB, Det (hehe).

You're right, it's a double edged sword, you live by the blitz - you die by the blitz ..... GW was either going to get that one right or go down in flames. Unfortunately, he crashed and burned at agruably one of the most critical moments of a defensive coordinator's career ..... the bright side being, now he's gone and you guys got Spag's.

I'm just making conversation, it snowed here last night and my choices are:

a) shovel the walk
b) logon onto Black & Gold

..... the future will tell if I have chosen poorly.

... this space intentionally left blank ...
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:19 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by neugey View Post
I don't really disagree with anything Duncan wrote. The GW defense that let us down at the end of the game kept us in the game earlier. I'm not a fan of scapegoats either. That being said, since hindsight is 20-20 it would indicate that some changes would need to be considered.
Right, but the drive before this one we got burned by Davis- I mean like fool me once shame on, shame on you, fool me, can't get fooled again. Hold on, let me clarify that.

Originally Posted by neugey View Post
Williams needed to adjust his defense to the fact that Davis was the only real receiving threat on the 49ers. Ginn wasn't doing much and Crabtree was dropping balls and playing inconsistently. Blitzing your strong safety 17 games in a game where their TE is the only weapon is kind of insane. We should've treated Davis like he was Megatron and doubled and triple-teamed him and let Greer play Crabtree solo.
Agree
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by papz View Post
I agree with most of what you're saying WDC, expect the part you're glad GW is gone. Our D is what kept us in the game. Our D let us down with a minute left to go... but our turnovers is what cost us the game. You lose the turnover battle by our margain, 90% chance plus you lose the game.

Fact.
This statement has officially ended this thread.

End of story.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:55 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by SloMotion View Post
Well, I agree with you that turnovers are generally something you can't control (unless your QB is Tony Romo) and are a result of the defense stepping up, which is why I didn't point fingers at the offense.

I can't really comment on GW's entire tenure because I haven't been around that long, but I do see the point that his scheme didn't work for you guys. What I saw in that game with the defense was you guys were playing on the edge and really making the most of the talent that you had. Getting down early by 17 and then playing from behind most the game didn't really make me think the D necessarily 'contained' the 49ers the entire game and then folded in the end, but they did keep you guys in the game and allow you to come back, which is basically what teams with high-powered offenses are designed to do, ie NE, GB, Det (hehe).

You're right, it's a double edged sword, you live by the blitz - you die by the blitz ..... GW was either going to get that one right or go down in flames. Unfortunately, he crashed and burned at agruably one of the most critical moments of a defensive coordinator's career ..... the bright side being, now he's gone and you guys got Spag's.

I'm just making conversation, it snowed here last night and my choices are:

a) shovel the walk
b) logon onto Black & Gold

..... the future will tell if I have chosen poorly.
Lol at romo too ...so true ...
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:04 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by neugey View Post

Williams needed to adjust his defense to the fact that Davis was the only real receiving threat on the 49ers...We should've treated Davis like he was Megatron and doubled and triple-teamed him and let Greer play Crabtree solo.
THIS.

Did our Offense and Special Teams let us down with the turnovers? Yes, absolutely. And the D did a good job keeping us in the game (I thought they let up 17 off of the turnovers) but then they made virtually ZERO adjustments at the end of the game.

TWICE we were burned by the blitz in the last 4 minutes because it was so daggone predictable. The reason they tried that Alex Smith run was because they knew the blitz was coming. They let all the defenders into the backfield and Smith just bootlegged around from them. With no one in the secondary there was no one to stop him when he broke contain it gained more than the niners probably even thought possible.

Then we all know what happened on the last series.

You can't play D in the last 5 minutes like you do the first 55. Especially if that includes making no changes to keep them on their toes.

I just hope Spags has us hide our scheme a little bit better and jam guys off the line no matter what the scheme is. Watching Davis just take off with NO attempt to interrupt his route has me screaming at the TV even now.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:10 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
This statement has officially ended this thread.

End of story.
Not yet!! Our D played real well up until we took the lead, they had the 9'ers #. Every defensive player knew how to play them and what to look for, Gregg Williams called the wrong plays the last 4-5 minutes of that game, he is the man in charge and yes I do blame him, whoever says it's because of the turnovers I can see their point but even with them we came back and took the lead really making the turnovers null and void, score like 0-0. Our O and D did that. Then the D let the game slip through our hands, there was no reason on earth once we took the lead to let the 9'ers O do what they did, none. Pi$$ poor play calling cost us the game in the end by our D it's plain and simple, those were Gregg Williams last orders to the D.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:41 AM   #19
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A lot of valid points. I still put the emphasis on Payton for taking lightly the importance of protecting the ball. Attempting returns on kickoffs should have been avoided along with YAC, at least in the first half. I felt before the game that if we win the turnover battle or just even it out, the Saints would have prevailed. I know people will disagree with me, but I don't blame GW. He was tasked with recovering from 5 turnovers and damn near pulled it off.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:40 AM   #20
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A lot of valid points...

But this isn't really about one game. This is about 2 seasons of games. The way the Saints lost out in last year's playoffs and this years... its the same.

The defense hasn't played like a professional defensive unit.

Just hanging out on the field until the team gets into the red zone and look for oppitunities isn't playing defense. Its called trying to get by or even lazy. I seriously didn't see any "TEACHING" of our younger players or coaching them up. What I saw was lining them up and say go. Luckily his contract was up because otherwise I was ready to fire him. He knew it as well that is why he didn't wait around and look for a new contract.

He was done and knew it.

We need a coaches to be teachers to develop and coach up the guys on what to do, how to tackle, how to avoid giving up big plays. HOW TO DEFEND!
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