Shaun Rogers ranked 7th

papz · 02-27-2012, 10:29 AM

Our system and lack of off season could have played a big part in both Rogers and Franklin having average years. If they price is right, which is no where near what they each made last season, I'd be very interested in bringing Franklin back and I'd kick the tires on Rogers. Our defense as a whole played poorly last year... doesn't mean these guys are talented.

Supertek · 02-27-2012, 10:56 AM

Agree with Hagan here. We allowed as an average 108.6 Yards rushing per game to our opponents. Would have been a lot more if not for the blowouts that forced teams to pass more. Franklin under performed at least compared to what he did in S.F. think he could be good in the interior but he had little help from the rest of the line. Dont see how any of these guys could really be called run stuffers at this point. Throw that in with over 275 average passing yards allowed per game and we were close to allowing 400average yards per game in these two catagories. This does not count the yards from the kicking game, interception returns or from fumbles. Not a pretty picture so I hope we can somehow improve this comming season.

halloween 65 · 02-27-2012, 11:08 AM

If Spags keeps Rodgers, Franklin, and Sed he sure has his work cut out for him trying to get a pass rush out of those guys. Might be the shortest a DC has ever been in New Orleans. We need up-grades!!

FinSaint · 02-27-2012, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Supertek

Agree with Hagan here. We allowed as an average 108.6 Yards rushing per game to our opponents. Would have been a lot more if not for the blowouts that forced teams to pass more. Franklin under performed at least compared to what he did in S.F. think he could be good in the interior but he had little help from the rest of the line. Dont see how any of these guys could really be called run stuffers at this point. [...]

Well, it all depends on how you look at it.

In 2009 the Saints were #21st against the run with an average yards per game being 122.2 and allowing 19 rushing TDs.

In 2010 the Saints were #16th against the run with 112.3 y/g and they allowed 13 rushing TDs.

In 2011 the Saints were #12th against the run with 108.6 y/g and they allowed 11 rushing TDs.

So, their run defense was better this season than it was in the past two seasons before it. ...at least if we are strictly looking at the numbers.

Also, you can't really compare Franklin's numbers from the past few SF years to this last season with the Saints and hope to find a representative comparison of overall performance.

Like you already alluded to, Franklin had a much better cast of other players around him in SF, his role was much bigger being a perennial starter and logging in most of the defensive snaps (while with the Saints he only was a starter in 9 games and shared snaps with others), and most importantly SF played a 3-4 defense which gave him a different role as the NT than being a DT in a 4-3 defense lining directly opposite to guards.

blackangold · 02-27-2012, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

That wasn't his sack... a sack isn't given if a defensive penalty occurs during the said play. He got his sack a while after that particular play.

Yes, that was his only sack of the season.

NFL Videos: Saints defense, sack, 5-yd loss

However, you are correct it should not have been recorded as a sack so Cam actually had zero sacks for the season....

xan · 02-27-2012, 02:36 PM

I'm going with papz' assessment. Scheme and lack of prep had more to do with the defensive problems than personnel in the DL.

FinSaint · 02-27-2012, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Yes, that was his only sack of the season.

However, you are correct it should not have been recorded as a sack so Cam actually had zero sacks for the season....

I guess you could be right, but I seem to remember him getting another sack after that in the same game, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

I doubt they would've marked that as his sack, because there was the horsecollar call against him. Maybe he had 2 half sacks or something... I really don't know, but I still think he had another tackle for a loss in that game.

Anyway, for all of those who expected Jordan to be a sack machine in the NFL - this is from a Bleacherreport article that was published ahead of last year's draft:

The 2011 NFL Draft Is Loaded With Sack Specialists, Which May Leave Cameron Jordan Lost In The Shuffle.

In a rich draft at the DE position, Cal’s Cameron Jordan stands out as a high-level run defender. However, his pass-rushing ability (or lack thereof) may be scaring off some potential suitors.

[...]

Jordan totaled just 16.5 sacks in 32 starts for the Golden Bears, so there is reason to question his ability to bring consistent pressure on the QB in the pros. Whether that issue will prevent him from being a successful NFL end, though, is far from certain.

Jordan’s toughness against the run makes him especially well-suited to playing end in a 3-4 setup, and there are lots of 3-4 teams in need of help on the line in this draft.

While he may not appeal as much to a team that needs him to take over a game right away, teams drafting later in the first round (Green Bay springs to mind) would be happy to add a polished, hard-working DE who doesn’t necessarily show up among the league’s sack leaders.

Considering the number of defensive ends who have washed out of the NFL for their inability to stop the run, Jordan could turn out to be a serious steal.

NFL Draft 2011: Cameron Jordan's Pass-Rushing Ability at NFL Level a Question | Bleacher Report

The Saints knew this, and they still went after Jordan, so that tells me that they wanted a LDE, who could primarily stop the run.

ScottF · 02-27-2012, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Yes, that was his only sack of the season.
NFL Videos: Saints defense, sack, 5-yd loss

However, you are correct it should not have been recorded as a sack so Cam actually had zero sacks for the season....

I don't even have to watch the video- I remember it well- one of many favorable calls that the annointed one got.

No flag on the play, and then the refs huddle up, and lo and behold, horse @#$& horse collar

ScottF · 02-27-2012, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

We need up-grades!!

exactly.
paying a crappy player less does not make them a better player

FinSaint · 02-27-2012, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

exactly.
paying a crappy player less does not make them a better player

I really don't think that the Saints have a single player on their roster I would estimate as "crappy."

....not even Shanle!

02-27-2012, 11:25 AM	#24
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,955	Originally Posted by Supertek Agree with Hagan here. We allowed as an average 108.6 Yards rushing per game to our opponents. Would have been a lot more if not for the blowouts that forced teams to pass more. Franklin under performed at least compared to what he did in S.F. think he could be good in the interior but he had little help from the rest of the line. Dont see how any of these guys could really be called run stuffers at this point. [...] Well, it all depends on how you look at it. In 2009 the Saints were #21st against the run with an average yards per game being 122.2 and allowing 19 rushing TDs. In 2010 the Saints were #16th against the run with 112.3 y/g and they allowed 13 rushing TDs. In 2011 the Saints were #12th against the run with 108.6 y/g and they allowed 11 rushing TDs. So, their run defense was better this season than it was in the past two seasons before it. ...at least if we are strictly looking at the numbers. Also, you can't really compare Franklin's numbers from the past few SF years to this last season with the Saints and hope to find a representative comparison of overall performance. Like you already alluded to, Franklin had a much better cast of other players around him in SF, his role was much bigger being a perennial starter and logging in most of the defensive snaps (while with the Saints he only was a starter in 9 games and shared snaps with others), and most importantly SF played a 3-4 defense which gave him a different role as the NT than being a DT in a 4-3 defense lining directly opposite to guards.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

02-27-2012, 04:15 PM	#27
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,955	Originally Posted by blackangold Yes, that was his only sack of the season. However, you are correct it should not have been recorded as a sack so Cam actually had zero sacks for the season.... I guess you could be right, but I seem to remember him getting another sack after that in the same game, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I doubt they would've marked that as his sack, because there was the horsecollar call against him. Maybe he had 2 half sacks or something... I really don't know, but I still think he had another tackle for a loss in that game. Anyway, for all of those who expected Jordan to be a sack machine in the NFL - this is from a Bleacherreport article that was published ahead of last year's draft: The 2011 NFL Draft Is Loaded With Sack Specialists, Which May Leave Cameron Jordan Lost In The Shuffle. In a rich draft at the DE position, Cal’s Cameron Jordan stands out as a high-level run defender. However, his pass-rushing ability (or lack thereof) may be scaring off some potential suitors. [...] Jordan totaled just 16.5 sacks in 32 starts for the Golden Bears, so there is reason to question his ability to bring consistent pressure on the QB in the pros. Whether that issue will prevent him from being a successful NFL end, though, is far from certain. Jordan’s toughness against the run makes him especially well-suited to playing end in a 3-4 setup, and there are lots of 3-4 teams in need of help on the line in this draft. While he may not appeal as much to a team that needs him to take over a game right away, teams drafting later in the first round (Green Bay springs to mind) would be happy to add a polished, hard-working DE who doesn’t necessarily show up among the league’s sack leaders. Considering the number of defensive ends who have washed out of the NFL for their inability to stop the run, Jordan could turn out to be a serious steal. NFL Draft 2011: Cameron Jordan's Pass-Rushing Ability at NFL Level a Question \| Bleacher Report The Saints knew this, and they still went after Jordan, so that tells me that they wanted a LDE, who could primarily stop the run.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

02-27-2012, 04:34 PM	#28
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Originally Posted by blackangold Yes, that was his only sack of the season. NFL Videos: Saints defense, sack, 5-yd loss However, you are correct it should not have been recorded as a sack so Cam actually had zero sacks for the season.... I don't even have to watch the video- I remember it well- one of many favorable calls that the annointed one got. No flag on the play, and then the refs huddle up, and lo and behold, horse @#$& horse collar blackangold likes this.

02-27-2012, 04:37 PM	#29
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Originally Posted by halloween 65 We need up-grades!! exactly. paying a crappy player less does not make them a better player

02-27-2012, 04:39 PM	#30
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,955	Originally Posted by ScottF exactly. paying a crappy player less does not make them a better player I really don't think that the Saints have a single player on their roster I would estimate as "crappy." ....not even Shanle!

02-27-2012, 10:29 AM	#21
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,681	Our system and lack of off season could have played a big part in both Rogers and Franklin having average years. If they price is right, which is no where near what they each made last season, I'd be very interested in bringing Franklin back and I'd kick the tires on Rogers. Our defense as a whole played poorly last year... doesn't mean these guys are talented.

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02-27-2012, 10:56 AM	#22
Supertek 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Harvey La. Posts: 611	Agree with Hagan here. We allowed as an average 108.6 Yards rushing per game to our opponents. Would have been a lot more if not for the blowouts that forced teams to pass more. Franklin under performed at least compared to what he did in S.F. think he could be good in the interior but he had little help from the rest of the line. Dont see how any of these guys could really be called run stuffers at this point. Throw that in with over 275 average passing yards allowed per game and we were close to allowing 400average yards per game in these two catagories. This does not count the yards from the kicking game, interception returns or from fumbles. Not a pretty picture so I hope we can somehow improve this comming season.

02-27-2012, 11:08 AM	#23
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	If Spags keeps Rodgers, Franklin, and Sed he sure has his work cut out for him trying to get a pass rush out of those guys. Might be the shortest a DC has ever been in New Orleans. We need up-grades!!

02-27-2012, 02:36 PM	#26
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,355 Blog Entries: 34	I'm going with papz' assessment. Scheme and lack of prep had more to do with the defensive problems than personnel in the DL.

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