Saints to draft a WLB?
 

I don't think the Saints will draft a MLB early. I think they're gonna stand pat with Grant'Ruff.

People forget Cie Grant was 240 at training camp. But I think he gained too much too fast and his body (muscles) lagged behind. With a full offseason of carrying 240 and training at 240 his body should easily have adjusted to it by now.

I'm excited about him, but quietly cautious. I always thought he'd be better on the outside, but I'm just a forum jockey. The coaches see this kid every day and have looked at a zillion hours of film we're not privy too, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'd still like to add a Donterrrious Thomas type LB to the mix.
At SLB we have Hodge and Allen battling it out.
At MLB we have Ruff and Grant battling it out.
AT WLB we have Rodgers and ??????.

I smell a WLB prospect being drafted, don't you?

Is DJ Williams projected at WLB?

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

yes he is... and I have him from the begining as a pick we may take at 18... he is OLB

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

DJ Williams wouldn\'t hurt my feelings as our number one pick.

However, I don\'t think Ruff is the answer in the middle, he didn\'t really do anything last season or in San Diego that would show him to be improving as a player.
Do we know if Cie Grant can even play? Granted, he has to be athletic to have played safety, corner, and linebacker in college, but I can\'t find any stats from his last season at Ohio State. I\'m sure he\'ll fit into the defense somewhere, but I don\'t know how secure I feel at this point with those two slated at middle linebacker.

[Edited on 1/4/2004 by turbo_dog]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

I get the feeling Vima, Hall, Robinson and several of the top WR\'s are in the Saints crosshairs.
I think trading down is a real possibilty if all of the above are gone.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

one or a few will be there which is why I think trading down is a good thing and picking up a 3rd rounder.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

If the Saints draft DJ Williams, where do you play him?
Rodgers is probably our best linebacker right now, he is the starter at WLB. Why not move Williams to SLB, where Hodge or Allen simply aren\'t the answer?
Quoting James Adler from About Football: \"Williams could play the strong side in the NFL, but I\'m not sure he has the speed to play on the weak side.\"

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Oh no... Williams is fast. That was one of the high sale points on him. He has great attitude, instinicts and speed. Just doesn\'t have size.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Why does Cie Grant have to play the middle? The second round will have at least two stud prospects at the position: Rod Davis and Teddy Lehman. Cie is going to have to learn the position anyway, why not have him use his speed on the outside?

I say all that because I would rather see us pick up a corner in the first and one of these second round MLBs than Williams in the first and whatever.

.02

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Lehman is an OLB, and he is not a \'stud\'. We could probably pick him up in the 3rd round. He may make a decent LB, but he will never be anything great in the pro\'s.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

You are right. Lehman is projected as an OLB. My bad. Didn\'t he split time at middle at OU?

Wow. Thanks, man. \'Preciate you settin\' me straight. Don\'t know how we\'d make it around here without you. Didn\'t you say something on a thread once about people explaining their reasons or something if they disagreed with an opinion.

You\'re a real pleasure.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Why should I explain it? Most people around here just base their opinions on what the media has gave them. So their not going to listen to what I say anyway.

You probably think Lehman is going to be good because he won a bunch of awards, but the fact is - he is just a product of the system. Remember Rocky Calmus? He had a very solid college career at OU as well, and won a lot of the same awards. He went in the 3rd round and hasn\'t done anything for the Titans. I expect the same from Lehman. A good backup, but never will be a solid full-time starter.

[Edited on 4/5/2004 by pakowitz]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

for rage

http://ileet.net/images/BullMeter.gif

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Why should you explain it? Because you never say anything to back up your statements and ridiculous comments. I guess you calling me and just about everyone else in here stupid cause you are right, we don\'t believe what you say. You come in here like you are a linebacker scout for an NFL team and you THINK you know it all. It\'s fine to have your own opinion, but you don\'t have to cut someone down whenever they give theirs. How do you know Lehman is just a product of a system? Vilma might be a product of a system also. No one knows for sure who will turn out to be good or a bust in the NFL. Last year, Calmus had 47 tackles, a sack and 2 ints in 10 games. That\'s not that bad considering he\'s been in the NFL 2 years. How many of our linebackers had 2 picks? 0 If all you can give is one player as an example that someone is going to be a bust, then why should anyone listen to you? You can go around and look into every college team and system and point out busts and stars to come out of a certain program all day long. You have it drilled in your head that you know everything about the draft and you get POed when someone disagrees or says something that you disagree with. If anyone is stupid, then it would be you. You don\'t respect anyone\'s opinions or anyone in this forum for that matter.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Yeah, what he said.

[Edited on 4/4/2004 by turbo_dog]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Easy. A difference of opinion does not make one stupid, especially where the NFL draft is concerned. Perhaps a better choice of words next time rAge? Besides, all the name calling around here is reserved for Whodat and me! ;)

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

I usually always have something to backup my statements, unless it\'s something that I have said over and over. After you have said something a numbers of times, there is no longer a reason to explain it because if everyone didn\'t get it the first time - then they aren\'t ever going to get it.

I\'m calling a lot of people here stupid, but not everyone. There are a few who seem to get it and the rest just follow the crowd because they don\'t know anything about anything. They know what ESPN feeds them and what they may of picked up from a forum and that is the extent of it.

I don\'t believe I am cutting most people down when they give their opinion, I just give my own and don\'t worry about if it pisses anyone off. If you don\'t like what I say - fine. But I\'m not going to sugar coat it just so it doesn\'t piss off some thin-skinned poster.

I don\'t think I know it all, but I do know a lot more than most people on this forum. NFL Scout\'s aren\'t always that bright anyway. If they all really knew what they were doing, you wouldn\'t see so many first round busts. There are probably a dozen good front office\'s and the rest are just full of idiots who base too much on workouts and \'stock\'.

How do I know Lehman won\'t be good? To put it simple - how many Oklahoma players have great college careers and then have great pro careers? Not too many. Sure some could break the mold, but for the most part - they are college players that can\'t make it as full-time starters in the pros. Also, when a college player wins a lot of awards and isn\'t projected to go in the first round...he is not likely to turn out to be a good pro. Usuaully these guys will go on the first day because it\'s hard to justify not taking a chance on a guy who had such a good college career - regardless of how much pro potential they may or may not have. Remember Ryan Long last year? Projected first round pick, Outland Trophy winner, ended up falling to the 4th and the Titans don\'t even think he could start on their depleted d-line.
To end my point on Lehman, his stock fell a ton at the combine and he wasn\'t that big of a prospect to begin with. He would of been lucky to be a 2nd rounder, now he may be a late 3rd rounder.

You asked how I knew Vilma wouldn\'t be a bust - I don\'t know that. But I also know the likelyhood of him being a bust is very small. A guy with his speed, intelligence and sound tackling is about as much of a sure-thing as you can get with a LB. I\'ve said it too many times already - this guy is just like Ray Lewis when he was coming out of Miami.

As for Calmus...47 tackles in 10 games is not good. Sure, he had 2 INT\'s...but it\'s not a LB\'s job to get INT\'s. I would much rather have a guy who is tough against the run than a guy who gets a pair of INT\'s. INT\'s are a luxury with LB\'s, not a necessity.

[Edited on 4/5/2004 by pakowitz]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Rage, you\'re a jackass. Regardless of what you may or may not know about football. You\'ve got as much class as an unflushed toilet.
Starting fights with just about every poster, pissing off a moderator for no apparent reason and now you\'re saying and continue on with .

This was an interesting board until you mooned us with your savvy behavior.

This guy needs to be banned.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Do we have a rookie moron, or George in drag?
Listen Skippy, We\'ve all read your posts and quite frankly it appears from both your grammar skills and footbal acumen that you\'re probably a junior high scrub or varsity cheerleader. Many of the folks here I disagree with regularly have displayed more insight and football knowlege than your best post to date.
So take your girly game on back to NOLA.com or NOS.com and play with the rest of your middle school hacks because it takes a lot more than what you\'ve displayed to hang with the guys in this group.
Beter yet, get your mommy or daddy to help you write a little letter of apology and post it Monday morning. We\'re a forgiving group here, mostly mature and levelheaded, and we\'ll probably let you stay.
If you can\'t handle that then head on back to NOLA.com with your gramar school roller skate buddies and try to convince yourself your a big boy by using more baseless insults and factless opinions.
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is terminal.

[Edited on 5/4/2004 by Danno]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

rage is...

http://tatge.vwmafia.net/Owned/ownedballs.jpg

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Look we cant tackle and havent had a good linebacker in 3 yrs. In the second round Boulware or Leman will be available. Take one. I think the secondary will get better as soon as they have to stop making every tackle and getting banged up

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

What is wrong with my grammar skills? My typing is better than most of the crap you find on the internet.

Ignorance, that explains you. I\'m guessing I pissed you off early and ever since then, you have seen my name attached to a post and automatically ignored everything except for the negative parts...which is what you seem to be dwelling on.

Where? Never heard of either place and I am well removed from junior high. You don\'t see me going around with the \'u r gay\' type that most junior high kids speak.

I never came here to \'hang\' with you guys.

And you talk about my grammar skills? Please...

\'daddy\' died 7 years ago. You can hate me all you want, I really don\'t care. But there is no need to bring someone\'s family into an argument that has nothing to do with them.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Boulware can\'t tackle either tho. He is exactly like most of the players we already have.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Boulware is 7th all-time on FSU\'s tackle list. I guess that means he can\'t tackle. Not too bad for a career at a big time school such as Florida State eh?

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Billy, why you horning in on my \'owned\' pictures?

EDIT:

Lehman was an OLB this past season, only because Lance Mitchell went down with a torn ACL. Lehman was supposed to play MLB, until this happened, and he was moved to the outside. I like Lehman for the same reasons you like Jake Grove.
I can\'t believe you compared Lehman to Calmus, Lehman is faster and smarter, and has a better motor and is more aggressive. Calmus was nothing more than a situational linebacker and special teams player. Did you compare the two because they are white linebackers that played for the same college, and roughly have the same build?

Boss Bailey was the same way at Georgia, by leading the team in tackles. But his open field tackling was horrible. He made up for it with speed, just like Boulware.

[Edited on 5/4/2004 by BlackandBlue]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Wow, a dissenting opinion followed by insight, knowledge and no name calling!
We could use a lot more of that.
I hope some of our underAge members take notice...


[Edited on 5/4/2004 by Danno]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Well, if most of the people on this site are just relaying something that they heard on ESPN, wouldnt you pay a bit more attention to it since the source has some validity to it? I think I pretty much believe what i hear on ESPN and yes, i like to come up with some stuff from time to time just to spark a debate...but the question on my mind is this...
Where are you getting your info from if it isnt from the media? Because if you have all these in depth reports on pretty much every player and it all comes from your little ole head...well then who the hell are you and why should we think you know what the hell you are talking about? You could be some retard nut job runnin around the nuthouse ass-naked and playin on someone\'s computer....I am not saying you are but it is still a possibility. I just dont know what gives you credibility around here since you refuse to get info from the media unlike all the rest of us.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Cause Stone Cold said so???

Seriously, I was thinking the same thing. Everyone has opinions, and I don\'t care what you say, some of your opinions are based on info you receive second hand. Example: I watched one Purdue game this past year. I walked away from that game extremely impressed with what I saw of Schweigert, I thought he was a real player. Come to find out, he takes really bad angles on the ball carrier (tidbit of info I couldn\'t have known, because the majority of the time, you don\'t even see him when the ball is snapped- ie. limited camera vision). Now, I\'m no Jesus, so there\'s no way I can be at the games and judge for myself.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

The problem with the Saints is we never draft playmakers, we draft potential. Duece Mcallister is a playmaker. Alex Molden had potential. See how it works. Boulware is a playmaker, always has and always will be. Champ Bailey is a playmaker also. But I\'d still take Strait as the best corner. Stoops coached him and he plays hard. Watch the sugar bowl DVD from lsusports.net.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

2003-Sullivan, Stinchcomb, Cie Grant, and Holland were all very good playmakers at their positions. Grant was a playmaker at several different positions.
2002-Charles Grant, Bentley, Craver, and Mitchell were all great playmakers in college. Stallworth and Allen were the only two I’d consider as potential over production. And Allen was quite dominant in College
2001- Only year I’d agree with you. Deuce and Norris were playmakers at their positions but K.Smith and Hodge were probably more potential over production.

I think we get a bad rap about drafting potential over production, strickly because of Stallworth.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

The thing with Stallworth is that nowadays people not only draft on potential, but they figure what kind of an upside a player had. Coming out Stallworth had all the tools the Saints were looking for in a guy. We had just sighned an oft-injured Pathon in FA and we had Horn which everyone knows what he has been doing. So looking back, we didn\'t have much at wideout when the draft approached. I remember sources saying that Haslett was jumping up and down almost after Stallworth ran. He was good sized, fast as hell, caught ball well with his hands and some said one of the best blocking wideouts in college football that year. If Stallworth wouldn\'t have gotten hurt his rookie year, he would have put up big numbers. He did have quite a few TD\'s and had some game winners as I recall. People were glad to see that we drafted a guy like Stallworth when he was doing great. When the injury bug hit, people jumped off the bandwagon quick and I am still on it. I know he did had an off year last year, but we all seen what he is capable of. He even went to a stretching coach last off-season to try to help his hammies out. Even though it didn\'t help much, it showed he made an effort to better hisself and I bet he is doing the same this offseason, trying to better himself. That\'s what I like about the guy. It\'s just an OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

I agree completely. There were many WR\'s who struggled their first 2 or 3 years in the league then blossomed into stars. I believe Stallworth will be one of them. I keep harping on Isaac Bruce. He had almost the exact Hammy problems Donte has now. He finally got them behind him and became one of the best WR\'s in the league for several years. Well Stallworth is bigger and faster. His contract is very cap friendly and was signed for 6 years.
HE WILL BE A STAR (barring serious injury).
I just hope he\'s still with us when he explodes.

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

http://www.blackandgold.net/site/mod...hread&tid=4266



i think everyone who posted in this topic should read this and obide by what it says.

i have read this topic several times and i have been disgusted by what i have read. most of the members here obide by those rules and i commend you all for it, but for those of you who attacked rAge, it was uncalled for and though i appreciate you standing up for your fellow members and what actually is right, you attacking rAge, is like the pot calling the kettle black. so please, do not sink to his level and counterattack him. let us (the mods) take care of it.

BTW rAge, this is the 2nd time i have had to warn you about personal attacks, there wont be another

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Oh this is fun!

I assume you meant ... \"base their opinions on what the media has GIVEN them.\"

Well which is it? Usually or always? And if you\'ve said something over and over does that mean that you no longer have anything to backup your statements? Oh, you just aren\'t explicit any longer b/c if we haven\'t gotten it yet we never will. After all some of us are usually always stupid.

Let\'s see, so we\'re not supposed to believe the professional broadcasters, the scouts, or the front offices? Hey man, I\'m all for making your own decisions regardless of what \'the experts\' say, especially when a person usually always makes posts as good as yours. What are your credentials by the way?

Honestly, I\'m pretty disappointed that I missed this one in the heat of the battle, but Danno was here to take care of business.

Seriously Tweek, I don\'t know if my monitor will ever be the same again. I spit coke all over it. Listen Skippy... LMAO... I\'m still laughing about that one. Well done sir.

[Edited on 6/4/2004 by WhoDat]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Did I miss something? When was the first warning?

And where were the personal attacks (by me) in this thread? By calling someone \'stupid\' or an \'idiot\'? Come on, what am I supposed to say...something childish like \'listen skippy\'? If I called you a ****ing *******, it would be an attack, but calling someone an idiot is just part of the argument. Nothing personal about it. Unless, of course, this really is a place were thin-skinned children & soccer moms hang out. But what do I know...

BTW - if anyone should take offense to what I said, it would be Teddy Lehman. I talked trash about him, then some fool came in and started to get smart with me. I didn\'t even start this friggin argument, I just replied to it. Glad to see there is major bias around here...

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Uhhh... yeah.


[Edited on 6/4/2004 by Danno]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

http://www.flamehq.com/albums/wpw-95...20%2816%29.jpg

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

Hey Billy - shouldn\'t it be \'this thread has derailed\'? Why use the word \'been\'? LOL.

C\'mon Billy, I expect more out of you. You\'re usually always better than that. ;)

PS - rAge is an idiot (hey Pak, that\'s not a personal attack right? LMAO - that was a joke by the way - don\'t come yelling at me about it!) ;)

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

\"Lehman was an OLB this past season, only because Lance Mitchell went down with a torn ACL. Lehman was supposed to play MLB, until this happened, and he was moved to the outside. I like Lehman for the same reasons you like Jake Grove.
I can\'t believe you compared Lehman to Calmus, Lehman is faster and smarter, and has a better motor and is more aggressive. Calmus was nothing more than a situational linebacker and special teams player. Did you compare the two because they are white linebackers that played for the same college, and roughly have the same build?\"
BlackandGold


Not to be mean or disrespectful, but Lehman was originally the OLB and moved to the middle when Mitchell went down with the injury. He is probably better suited to play on the outside, either Weak or Strong side.
Just don\'t want you to go around being misinformed. Sorry for the inconvienence.

[Edited on 4/7/2004 by steub12]

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

I get no respect lol just kidding, Danno could have all the credit...I don\'t mind lol

Saints to draft a WLB?
 

You\'re not being mean or disrespectful, but you are correct- he took over at MLB when Mitchell went down, but he had been playing WLB. I transpose words all the time, but it is starting to float into my writing as well. He did start his college career at MLB, though. He can play both, and I\'ve heard Mitchell himself highly praise Lehman as a football player.

[Edited on 8/4/2004 by BlackandBlue]