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Loomis says Saints won't ditch Vilma for Lofton

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; What else is Loomis suppose to say right now? Vilma's future depends on his health and the suspension his gets, but seeing Lofton-Vilma-Wilson would be a nightmare for opposing teams...

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Old 03-26-2012, 09:18 AM   #11
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What else is Loomis suppose to say right now? Vilma's future depends on his health and the suspension his gets, but seeing Lofton-Vilma-Wilson would be a nightmare for opposing teams
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:24 AM   #12
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They know we are about to lose Vilma for a while, damage control stage of this has begun.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:06 AM   #13
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I would keep him with a lower cap hit. He is a great leader but not what he was 3 years ago. As a possible swing man I could see him making 3 a year but not his 6.6 cap hit.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #14
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After seeing the punishments given out to Payton and Loomis, I get the feeling that Vilma will get a hefty suspension and now that their eyes are opened, the Saints know it is coming. I see Vilma's suspension working kinda like Sean Payton's year-long suspension, which was intended to make the Saints want to fire him....although it didn't work (yet), that was clearly the intent of his and Williams' suspensions, to try and "get rid of them" by making their positions untenable with their respective teams. Vilma's will be even more so, because as far as the league is concerned, he is the poster boy for the whole bounty thing, they leaked his name on purpose.

I predict that all of these "bounty" players, the league wants to wash their hands of it and be rid of them ALL, for the lawsuit protection...to be able to tell the future jury, "see, when we heard about this, we took action and kicked them out of the league." Vilma's suspension will not be enough to officially "kill" him, it will be "just enough" to make him kryptonite to any team that wants to keep him on their roster, harsh enough to effectively finish him off as a player, without actually banning him per se. The league will "help" to get him out of football quicker, to the point where his age, uncertain physical status, and HUGE @$$ suspension will all factor in to making him unable to find work, as a player for the Saints or any other team.

I fear that the Saints will just end up having to take a lot of cap hits for defensive players who will not be playing most of the year, or at all, and they will HAVE to let those players go with the cap hits, simply in order to have enough bodies to have 11 men on the field on defense all season...forcing the Saints to move on to cheaper, lesser known players in a lot of positions. The cap hits from lost players are going to be the real teeth of the punishment for the team.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SaintsBro View Post
I fear that the Saints will just end up having to take a lot of cap hits for defensive players who will not be playing most of the year, or at all, and they will HAVE to let those players go with the cap hits, simply in order to have enough bodies to have 11 men on the field on defense all season...forcing the Saints to move on to cheaper, lesser known players in a lot of positions. The cap hits from lost players are going to be the real teeth of the punishment for the team.
IIRC, suspended players' salaries do not count against the cap.

I'm sure they don't count against the 53, but I seem to recall getting an exemption for their cap figure also.

If we cut them, many of their cap figures skyrocket.

I'll try to find more info on cap exemption for suspended players.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:51 PM   #16
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Maybe they won't have to let him go because Goodell will.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Danno View Post
IIRC, suspended players' salaries do not count against the cap.

I'm sure they don't count against the 53, but I seem to recall getting an exemption for their cap figure also.

If we cut them, many of their cap figures skyrocket.

I'll try to find more info on cap exemption for suspended players.
Yeah this part of the cap stuff with suspensions is something that I admit I know very LITTLE about. But I think we have to get ourselves used to the idea of, it is going to be a crazy year on defense. I believe Jeff Duncan said there were nine players still on the current roster, who were active from 2009-11 who may be considered as possible bounty "suspects" for suspensions and/or fines or discipline. After seeing what they did to Payton, Vitt and Loomis, I figure all those nine guys are all gonna be out for something.

It's gonna be substantial, and Vilma is the worst of it because they mentioned him specifically by name. If Vilma doesn't count against the cap while he's suspended, then that changes the picture a lot...but will the Saints want him back next year etc if his suspension is a looooong one, like say it's more than a year? If he gets an "indefinite" suspension, like Williams, how long do they wait before moving on?

Not to beat a dead horse, but I do believe in my gut that the ultimate point of the punishment on Vilma by the league is going to be, to get him out of football somehow, without actually literally forcing him to go. Make Vilma's situation just bad enough, so he cannot keep going, and has to hang up his cleats. I think that's what they (Goodell) will want to happen.

I'm also assuming that, even if they stagger the suspensions, if it's nine guys (I pessimistically think it will be a lot of guys) then at some point the Saints will have to sign some journeyman type people off the street, to fill in 6, 8, 12 games on short notice, at the very least. That is going to be very crazy indeed.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SaintsBro View Post
Yeah this part of the cap stuff with suspensions is something that I admit I know very LITTLE about. But I think we have to get ourselves used to the idea of, it is going to be a crazy year on defense. I believe Jeff Duncan said there were nine players still on the current roster, who were active from 2009-11 who may be considered as possible bounty "suspects" for suspensions and/or fines or discipline. After seeing what they did to Payton, Vitt and Loomis, I figure all those nine guys are all gonna be out for something.

It's gonna be substantial, and Vilma is the worst of it because they mentioned him specifically by name. If Vilma doesn't count against the cap while he's suspended, then that changes the picture a lot...but will the Saints want him back next year etc if his suspension is a looooong one, like say it's more than a year? If he gets an "indefinite" suspension, like Williams, how long do they wait before moving on?

Not to beat a dead horse, but I do believe in my gut that the ultimate point of the punishment on Vilma by the league is going to be, to get him out of football somehow, without actually literally forcing him to go. Make Vilma's situation just bad enough, so he cannot keep going, and has to hang up his cleats. I think that's what they (Goodell) will want to happen.

I'm also assuming that, even if they stagger the suspensions, if it's nine guys (I pessimistically think it will be a lot of guys) then at some point the Saints will have to sign some journeyman type people off the street, to fill in 6, 8, 12 games on short notice, at the very least. That is going to be very crazy indeed.
I think Rogers' fury is totally PR related and 100% about the NFL image. I don't think he wants Vilma out of the NFL as much as he wants everyone to think he's furious about what happened.

He's mostly accomplished the image problem by his actions against Loomis and Payton, which by the way didn't involve the players union screaming bloody murder. Thats a fight I don't think he wants to play out all season long.

A moderate penalty for the players involved is probably best for all.

Everyone agrees some of the players should be punished, but he'll have a dogfight from hell with the players union if he goes overboard with it. Maurice Smith is probably licking his chops.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:28 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Danno View Post
I think Rogers' fury is totally PR related and 100% about the NFL image. I don't think he wants Vilma out of the NFL as much as he wants everyone to think he's furious about what happened.

He's mostly accomplished the image problem by his actions against Loomis and Payton, which by the way didn't involve the players union screaming bloody murder. Thats a fight I don't think he wants to play out all season long.

A moderate penalty for the players involved is probably best for all.

Everyone agrees some of the players should be punished, but he'll have a dogfight from hell with the players union if he goes overboard with it. Maurice Smith is probably licking his chops.
Yeah, you rite. This has zero to do with safety and 100% to do with image. The liberal agenda is alive and well and Goodell is kissing its ass.

And Man wouldn't you love to be a fly in Smith's wall?
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by FinSaint View Post
Well, Ellis is another piece of the puzzle.

His cap hit for 2012 seems to be $7.575M, but according to my calculations there's only about $800K left in the guaranteed $19.5M of his contract, so the Saints could free up a lot of cap space if they were to cut him.

On the other hand, if the Saints' FO and Brees are able to come to an understanding in regards to the structure of the long term contract, where his initial cap hit would be fairly low while still including a lot of guaranteed money - Ellis' contract comes of the books next off-season, which would allow for a bigger cap hit for Brees in 2013.


Jabari Greer is another player who's salary will come of the books after this coming season, so that'll be another $6.15M of cap space for Brees' contract.

The Saints could also try to get him to sign an extension with a restructure, which could keep him with the Saints for couple of additional seasons while bringing down his cap hit for this coming season.


The bottom line is that there are ways of making Brees' contract work even if he is given the highest overall value contract in the NFL and a big amount of guaranteed money to go along with it - it's all about the structuring of his contract and of all the other players' contracts in relation to his annual cap hits.
That's the type thing I think the Saints want to avoid - restructuring just about every contract - by just unloading some dead weight. I agree with what you said 100%, it's just my opinion that they won't go that route, but I could be wrong.

I like Vilma, but if I were the Saints I would cut ties with him now and stop worrying about what the league will do to him. He isn't near the player he used to be, so I think restructuring him is a waste of time and energy.
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