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New York Giants admit to doing exactly the same thing as the New Orleans Saints!

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; LOL! Some people......

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Old 04-06-2012, 10:20 AM   #21
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LOL! Some people...
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:40 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by PatMcIrish View Post
A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!!

Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of.

In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it.
The only person truly implicated in this is Gregg Williams. I agree, he should be banned for life. But Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis ordered Williams to halt whatever he was doing on multiple occasions and he ignored them. Also, just because a lunatic coach calls for going after an ACL doesn't mean a single player in that room would have done it. In fact, they didn't. That's what is bothering us as fans. The assumption by those of you who that Payton knowingly took part in this, which is beyond stupid and I can't believe he would ever condone it, and the assumption that players actually took part by performing the acts. There is no evidence that any player actively tried to injure another player. Note I said injure, because ALL players try to hurt other players on every play.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:03 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by PatMcIrish View Post
You guys are pathetic if you try to defend any of this. It's ridiculous the stuff Gregg Williams was saying.


NFL Videos: Gregg Williams pep talk under scrutiny
Hey Pat how's life in Minneapolis these days?

And btw, no one here has ever said this was justified. We are pointing out that other teams do this sh*t!

Ravens
Titans
Redskins
Giants

just to name a few verifiable ones.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:08 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by jokeray View Post
going after injured players is NOT the same as a team paying their players BONUS' for injuring players.

It's one thing for players to do it, it's another thing for a team to endorse it/pay their players for doing it.

Not trying to start a fight, just voicing my opinion that it's NOT the same thing.
What on earth are you talking about? It's completely obvious from the context of the article that this was a strategy that was talked about IN TEAM MEETINGS of the Giants. This was a strategy that was pursued by the coaches. And by the way, Tim Hasslebeck said this on Twitter yesterday: "...speeches like that can be heard across the league. sounds brutal outside the boundaries of a teams facility, but it's the standard."

And also this:

"...in light (of) the gregg williams audio. i don't think i was ever on a team where a coach didn't mention an opposing players injury. #reality"
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:22 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by PatMcIrish View Post
Links on the net? That's your evidence?


Wow, just wow.


I understand not wanting to take a stand because other Saint fans might bash you, for some respect is hard to acquire. But for the love of GOD I don't see why at least a few men here wouldn't have the balls to speak out for what happened here.

If it happened on every other team it still wouldn't change a thing. GW and your head coach should never work in the NFL again. EVER! That would be a good start. Nip this crap in the bud before it gets out of hand. I sure expected better from the Saints.
You are not making sense. You are not thinking rationally. Comprehension skills. Maybe you do not know about GW.
GW is not on the Saints' staff.
He was. Saints', ehhh, reading between the lines, let GW go but let him go when he had a good out. GW seemed to have been fired from the Saints but resigned at the same time. One of those deals. Save face. This was after the big SF playoff lost in which the offense came back and bcak and caught back up. Defense , led by GW, did not win. The bountygate thing broke out after the 2011 year was over. Hmmmm seems to me , maye, perhpas reading between the lines, Saints' were informed by Goodell some time ago. We know it has been a investigation for awhile. You don't know of something like this from Goodell overnight.

No, it happening on all other 31 teams would not change the fact, FACT , Saints ' then coach GW did this. Sean P knew and stopped him or did not know GW still did this. I do not know when Sean P knew and what he knew. He did issue a statement to Saints' fans, NFL, football fans, and the to Saint's organization.

For the love of GOD, I do not why you cannot understand this.
Fans here have spoken out. For the umpteeth time, no one is saying this was ok. It was not ok. Thank GOD the Saints, for proof that this bounty was just awful talk, no one can deny, esp. Saints' fans, that the Saints defense has played so-so to poorly. The offense carried the team. Thank God no other teams, as proof for the Saints had players injured , carted off, etc. by Saints. Well, actutally the Saints had one NFL man carted off and in surgery the next day. The man is crippled for life. He has pins, rods and will be able to detect rain coming. That is their own Saint's Coach Sean Payton because the Saints' placed a nasty, illegal hit on him.
Thank God, as proof for the Saints' bountygate was just awful talk, the defense over all these years was not a high ranking defense.
Saints offense has been consistent.

GW is a small fry really. He was a Def. coach, but wasn't a HC. Sean Payton is the big fish here. The head caoch. The boss.
If Benson fired SP after this season , well, SP is not coaching this year anyway, no big deal. There are many teams that would glady take him on as HC. Fans of that team would accept him too.
It is all about the money, honey. W's vs. L's.

This bounty thing has been nipped in the bud and has gotten out of hand. NFL gave Saint's organization worst and most severe punishment ever. It is still being talked about. I , yeah, being a Saints' fan, consider it over and done. What else can be done? It has been done. The punishments have been handed down.
Belicheck was on NFL Net today saying how sick to his stomach was he when he heard that audio. Umm, Belicheck the cheater is not a very moral NFL man. Murder is ok in the NFL. Drugs are fine. Dog fighting, I cannot even go there.

Oh lets go really someplace really bad. JoPa had a funeral out of this world and he knew of child, CHILD molestation by Sandusky. I know this is not the NFL, but still. Joe Paterno had PennU fans, alumi then and now still hailing him a hero. Yes, great football coach on the field. Off the field, a very immoral man. You have to have it both ways of the saying the bad and the ugly. Sandusky, correct me.,but um, charges were thrown out, reduced the other day. CHILD SEUXAL ABUSE. Bountygate talk vs. this sin that took place for years and years with many powerful on the inside knowing , a sin against nature, God and children, the innocents.
Which is a moral matter here?

In the greater sceam of things NFL, NCAA, bountygate was some really stupid, awful , disgusting talk that was never really, THANK GOD, implemented.
Thank God Saints' never had a person like Shu on defense.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:02 PM   #26
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Did Giants Strategically Concuss Kyle Williams? -- The Sports Section
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:32 PM   #27
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Pat, I'll step up and say that when this broke, I was horrified and hated Gregg Williams even more. I agree that he should never coach again because he's too dangerous of a coach and he's not even a very good one after teams figure his defense out. If the players actually did try to injure other players, then I'm ashamed of that too.

HOWEVER. I stand behind my team in rain or shine. I do not support the bounty system. I support the New Orleans Saints. Because I was here for seasons when we lost games in double digits. I was here when we made it to the playoffs only to fall short in the first game. I was here when we finally won that game, and got thrashed in the next one. I was here for a 3-13 season when the Saints were homeless, playing home games in Tiger Stadium and San Antonio. I was here when the Saints returned home to a loving crowd to reopen the Louisiana Superdome. I was here when we made it to the NFC Championship Game, and once again fell short. I was here when we went 13-0. I was here as we all chewed our fingernails watching the 2009 NFC Championship Game. And I was here as we all celebrating being crowned World Champions. I was born a Saints fan, and I'll die a Saints fan. Who Dat Forever.

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"THIS! IS! NEW ORLEANS!!!" -Drew Brees, 2008 season
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by PatMcIrish View Post
I keep hearing you guys asking penalties for others, who else has been taped and up against this kind of clear evidence? If it's out there you're absolutely right, they should be punished as well. .......
Similarly, where is the clear evidence that Saints players did actually play with the intention to maim etc (regardless what Gregg Williams was or was not instructing). And by extension where is the clear evidence that the Saints Head Coach and The Sants General Manager sanctioned or even knew of a "plan" to maim?
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:21 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by UK_WhoDat View Post
Similarly, where is the clear evidence that Saints players did actually play with the intention to maim etc (regardless what Gregg Williams was or was not instructing). And by extension where is the clear evidence that the Saints Head Coach and The Sants General Manager sanctioned or even knew of a "plan" to maim?
Still waiting for an answer, Pat.

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Old 04-06-2012, 04:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by PatMcIrish View Post
A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!!

Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of.

In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it.
Great thing is Pat you don't have to be a fan of the Saints. As people have stated on this board, nobody has come out and said what Williams did was okay, but to be ignorant and think this isn't wide spread is foolish. Let me tell you something Pat, as a person who played ball I was ALWAYS going out to hurt the other guy. My intention wasn't to kill them, rather to rattle them and yes knock them out of the game if possible. That is how the game is played. Pat big hits are glorified for a reason.
Enjoy the season as a bucs fan Pat. You'll still be at the bottom of the heap though because Freeman is overrated!
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