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Bounty evidence may have been fake.

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Euphoria If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail. I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail. If Gregg Williams had ...

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Old 04-11-2012, 04:44 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post
If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail.

I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail.
If Gregg Williams had this system in place.. no one followed through with it (IE the 49ers game when we have 0 penalties).. how could the NFL justify penalties on the players?

Again, if the players did not accept money for injury or put up money for injury, then they'd get MINIMAL (fine, one game suspension) for knowledge. That's all.
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:50 PM   #32
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Attempted Murder -its a crime of merely preparing to commit unlawful killing at the same time having a specific intent to cause the death of a human being.

The fact you gave me a weapon and ask me to do it is preparation to commit the act.

There is evidence that there was a program in place... sure no one may have collected because the act of a cart off never happened doesn't make the whole thing innocent. It was in play and that is all you really need.
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:56 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post
Attempted Murder -its a crime of merely preparing to commit unlawful killing at the same time having a specific intent to cause the death of a human being.

The fact you gave me a weapon and ask me to do it is preparation to commit the act.

There is evidence that there was a program in place... sure no one may have collected because the act of a cart off never happened doesn't make the whole thing innocent. It was in play and that is all you really need.
A program that was in place by coaches, in which coaches were punished for.

The players can not be punished for an act if they did not act on it.

Unless there's proof a player put up money or accepted money directly for injury, there's 0 chance that this stands after NFLPA appeals.

In my opinion, if they didn't do that, that's called doing the "right thing." What, do you expect them to throw their friends and teammates under the bus by telling the NFL? I don't think so.

If you want to believe that if the coaches had something in place and they never went out and did it, that in some world that's wrong? That's on you. Not discussing that further. I stand by my point of view.

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Old 04-11-2012, 05:17 PM   #34
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To an extent I can agree with you about the players. But I am not putting all my Easter eggs in one basket... I mean no one say SP getting a year.

The Elephant in the room is the rule. Bascially, you can't have essentially an office pool of any kind. They can't have a play for incentive program including for fumbles, sacks, ints's what have you. Even though every former NFL player seeming agrees they have... its against the rule.

Also just because you saw a crime and didn't say anything doesn't let you off the hook.

So you see your friend kill someone in front of you and you don't call the police... you are actually committing a crime by not calling the police.

So I am not even going to guess what a player should get... this could go anywhere as a result of SP's suspension.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:47 PM   #35
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I personally hope it turns out that most of the "evidence" was trumped up. This would be a big egg in the face of the NFL & could possibly cause that ****tard, Goodell to step down.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:16 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post
If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail.

I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail.
Euphoria,

I disagree to a point but on a separate issue. I personally feel a scheme was in place and I'm ready for this punishment to come and pass and for the organzation to move on.

Was there a bounty scheme? Yes I think they're was.

Did the punishment fit this crime? No, I can only go by what is "precident" for this commisioner and that's "Spygate" to the best of my knowledge.

Is ordering your players to do harm on others on the field, a matter arguably normal practice in the sport, as severe as CHEATING by puting a video camera on opposing teams leading to a game?

That's the question I ponder.

The message sent was this: if you're found guilty in the NFL, NEVER admit to the accusation because you'll get off with a slap on the wrist (a la Bilichick)

If you stand up and admit the wrong you will be punished to the n'th degree, up to losing your job and jeopardising your season.

If you don't think there will be reprocussions because of this foolishness you're out of your mind.

NEVER will a player or Coach stand up (man up) to a wrong committed ever again... why admit to it when you can deny it and get away with practically MURDER.

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Old 04-11-2012, 06:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Halo View Post
Euphoria,

I disagree to a point but on a separate issue. I personally feel a scheme was in place and I'm ready for this punishment to come and pass and for the organzation to move on.

Was there a bounty scheme? Yes I think they're was.

Did the punishment fit this crime? No, I can only go by what is "precident" for this commisioner and that's "Spygate" to the best of my knowledge.

Is ordering your players to do harm on others on the field, a matter arguably normal practice in the sport, as severe as CHEATING by puting a video camera on opposing teams leading to a game?

That's the question I ponder.

The message sent was this: if you're found guilty in the NFL, NEVER admit to the accusation because you'll get off with a slap on the wrist (a la Bilichick)

If you stand up and admit the wrong you will be punished to the n'th degree, up to losing your job and jeopardising your season.

If you don't think there will be reprocussions because of this foolishness you're out of your mind.

NEVER will a player or Coach stand up (man up) to a wrong committed ever again... why admit to it when you can deny it and get away with practically MURDER.
Seems to me it doesn't matter whether you cop to it or not. Roger will do whatever he will do without regard to proof or evidence or facts or speculation or anything else. The man has a clear agenda and he's not going to let facts stand in the way. Period.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:32 PM   #38
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Not sure what you are disagreeing about... I think we generally agree on basically the whole thing.

Here is where I disagree...

The big difference is Belichick had admitted to doing it. He was quoted as saying yes they did it and and he felt it was all fair and part of the game. When asked to turnover all the materials they willingly did so. NO COVER UP, NO DENYING, and they STOPPED doing it.

NFL got wind of the Bounty and told the Saints to stop it. NFL asked again and again about it and Saints denied and then NFL told them to stop it and well they didn't. So I can see that is where the harsh penalty comes from but I still think it much.

So I think the lesson is actually the opposite. If something is wrong and you are asked you better answer honestly and come out with it immediately instead of trying to cover it up.

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Old 04-11-2012, 06:33 PM   #39
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As I've been saying, it's LAWYER TIME for SP, Loomis & Vitt.

Is it wrong to hope Goodell has a stroke before the season & has to step down or worse? Not that I'm hoping that, just saying.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:34 PM   #40
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Not only that but you also have an obligation as a coach, a leader, a role model. To ALWAYS do the right thing.

If it was going on... I don't care who you are you need to stop it or say "I think that is wrong and a violation of a law somewhere". Even seek higher ups to point out something isn't right with this procedure. Its a morale issue as well.
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