Bounty evidence may have been fake.
 

Bountygate Evidence May Have Been Fake - Canal Street Chronicles

Seen this come through my timeline on Twitter. Worth looking at, includes audio clip.

Thoughts?

UM.............Canal Street Chronicles

What's the problem?

Again. There's audio from an interview on there.

That's the key why I posted it.

They need to sue the NFL.

The entire situation is just weird.
The problem is the NFL has no "Judicial system" in place to handle these matters, it's just a dictatorship.
The Saints are the perfect scapegoat for the Commish and the NFL to make their point.

I, like so many other Saints fans, grow so weary of the entire Bountygate matter that I'm ready to completely move on.

Would need Watergate-esque hard cold evidence to make a case, and by the time anything got started, draft and training camp will be underway and we'll be watching our team do whatever in their power to salvage a chance at a superbowl.

If pending suspensions cripple the team, then I'd say YES the Saints as an organization need to take the commish down not by legal means but by manipulation of the owners to have him removed or reverse harsh suspensions.

Loomis, Sean Payton and at least Vilma and a few others will not be factors in this season. It just is what it is.

Great journalism on the part of our friends at Canal Street Chronicles - really appreciate this contribution.

These have been my thoughts from the very beginning.

If there were any kind of actual judicial process, these accusations would have been laughed at. Instead, it is, in fact, a dictatorship. So now we're the one's being laughed at because we're left with an empty feeling, knowing that so much is being ignored and we can't do anything about it.

It's pathetic. But I have a good feeling that justice will find it's way, in the form of a Super Bowl victory, fittingly in our own backyard.

This was, and is, my opinion on the whole thing ... also, the lack of any sort of real judicial process, the lack of disclosure in regards to the evidence ... it's weak and shouldn't be run on any team in the league.

It is a weird situation and I can't help but think in the back of my mind that this is what the NFL owners want in order to protect themselves from future injury-lawsuits.

So much BS has been thrown around, I'm tired of it too, but it's like a train wreck ... you can't look away, no matter how hard you try. For the Saints' sake, I wish they'd just hand out the punishments and get it over with so you guys can prepare for next season.

Bountygate Evidence May Have Been Fake
 

The whistleblower or "snitch" in the Saints Bountygate scandal has allegedly been revealed. According to local New Orleans author Alan Donnes in a Tuesday interview with America's News Radio Network, it was Saints defensive quality control Coach Mike Cerullo who first alerted the league about Gregg Williams' bounty program.

But the other equally interesting tidbit from Donnes' radio interview that seems to have fallen through the cracks is the fact that some of the evidence supplied by Cerullo to the NFL may not have even been real, an hypothesis many Saints fans have posited since news of the scandal first surfaced:


From a source, in the situation, some of the materials - printed materials - that the whistleblower turned in were suspect and may not have actually been real. And I think Roger Goodell overreacted and now he can't get out of it. And look, the Saints aren't, y'know, virgins here, but they're not the evil guys they're being made out to be.

If true, this may very well explain why NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and the league have been so tight-lipped about the 10,000 documents and 50,000 pages of evidence they claim to possess. This theory that Cerullo forged evidence would also seem plausible if it's true that, as Donnes revealed, "he believed that it was Gregg Williams and Sean Payton and others in the Saints organization blocking him from getting other work." That would be a potentially legitimate motive.

And it really doesn't matter how much evidence may actually be bogus, because even if it's just a single page it opens a Pandora's Box of questions as to the validity of the entire Bountygate accusations. What other evidence might be phony? Who is checking and looking over this evidence? Everything can and should now be questioned.


Bountygate Evidence May Have Been Fake - Canal Street Chronicles

My opinion since day one .... I knew the NFL and Goddell were full of bull, Goddell has to look like he is all about player safety because of the lawsuits that are about to happen by the ex players due to their health problems after football and he had the perfect sacrificial lamb in the Saints. I just don't understand why Payton and Loomis took it on the chin like they did but sometimes your job gets in the way of your morals and I can't say I blame either one for falling on the sword to get their jobs next year going foward

And all the usual suspects will be running stories of how Goodell and the league mis-treated the Saints when this comes out!

Very interested. Listen to the whole audio. Very telling.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Mike+...9,r:2,s:0,i:71
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for (Mike Cerullo)




http://blackandgold.com/data:image/j...ClKUApSlAf/9k=

I'm still hoping the NFLPA pushes back heavily on whatever Goodell decides to do to the players.

Sent the link to Yasinskas. LOL

Everybody calling for our head may be calling for God-alls head when everything is out in the open.. NFLPA do your job and get a copy of the 10,000 page documents and let us know what is going on.
I wonder, if God-all finds out some info was bogus would he try to hide it from the public? I smell a cover up!! Do as I say not as I do.

Those calling for our heads will continue to do so, their argument will forever fall back on GW's audio which wasn't fake.

I hope mic's and cameras are never allowed in the locker room again. The public's obsession with "knowing everything" is absurd.

Those dang sissy Vikings.

NFLPA might do something.........nah, what was I thinking?:wink:

No, the audio wasn't fake, but it WAS edited. The part at the end where he essentially said to play aggressive but by the rules was conveniently not presented.

If it is or isn't is probably of little matter now. People have their minds made up one way or the other. I don't care. The main reason I would like for it to be proven fake (at least the pay for injury scenario cause they already admitted to pay for performance) is how stupid it would make goodell and all the sky is falling crowd look. Otherwise let's get past this crap cause it serves no purpose to keep re hashing what can't be changed. Get ready for an exciting season to come and get brees to retire as a saint.

Wow!
 

Have just listened to the audio on the Canal Street Chronicles. Are you telling me, that Goodell punished the Saints with the severest penalty known due to information that may have been fabricated, that the tape on Greg Williams was edited and had an important statement at the end which was not heard? Next thing is you'll be telling me that Roger Goodell is more interested in the liability of the NFL than player safety! Which we all know isn't true...

i think the players are safe...they have a union...i dont think HC's have a union

Put Sheriff Joe Arpaio on the case! He'll get to the bottom of it!
His investigators are specialists at sniffing out forged documents.

LOL

Alaska

good analagy....2 dictators with forged documents and nothing will be done

Problem is, all the other owners are against the Saints.

I'm glad ya'll enjoyed the post as much as I did when CSC posted it. I listened and thought it was definitely worth posting on here given the alleged whistleblower leak.

That's why the NFLPA wants to see the evidence because if they believe this evidence doesn't stand up, they have lawyers on stand-by to appeal the process outside of Goodell.

I think whether or not they actually paid players for cart-offs, the intent was there, and that's the NFL's basis of punishment. Sort of like carrying around marijuana with "intent to distribute" when in reality you didn't.

It's pretty ridiculous. I see the players getting a "slap on the wrist" outside Vilma's alleged bounty payment. The thing with Vilma is, how do they have proof he actually did that and that also wasn't fabricated?

Some people are still in denial I see.

If there was no program then ya think with your ass on the line you'd come out and say "look Mo Fo's... we didn't have one". I know I would but the apologized for it already, hmmm.

A system in place and carrying out are two different things.

I can give you a gun, set up a meeting, and tell you to kill someone. That doesn't mean you went out to do it.

Unless the NFL in their documents have actual proof that these transactions went for injury specifically, they have absolutely no basis for serious punishment except speculation.

The Saints admitted to performance incentives such as interceptions. What's to say that the money in the envelopes that were exchanged weren't for those? You can't speculate and hand out serious suspensions and such for something if you can't prove what the money was exchanged for. That'll be the NFLPA's stance, and you bet that will hold up in court.

The coaches owned up to having a system in place, therefore their punishment is what it is. However if it can't be proven the players were paid for injury specifically, as in, no doubt the money was for that, then sever punishment isn't warranted because they have no proof that they acted on the system. Not every "illegal hit" was due to a bounty.

If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail.

I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail.

If Gregg Williams had this system in place.. no one followed through with it (IE the 49ers game when we have 0 penalties).. how could the NFL justify penalties on the players?

Again, if the players did not accept money for injury or put up money for injury, then they'd get MINIMAL (fine, one game suspension) for knowledge. That's all.

Attempted Murder -its a crime of merely preparing to commit unlawful killing at the same time having a specific intent to cause the death of a human being.

The fact you gave me a weapon and ask me to do it is preparation to commit the act.

There is evidence that there was a program in place... sure no one may have collected because the act of a cart off never happened doesn't make the whole thing innocent. It was in play and that is all you really need.

A program that was in place by coaches, in which coaches were punished for.

The players can not be punished for an act if they did not act on it.

Unless there's proof a player put up money or accepted money directly for injury, there's 0 chance that this stands after NFLPA appeals.

In my opinion, if they didn't do that, that's called doing the "right thing." What, do you expect them to throw their friends and teammates under the bus by telling the NFL? I don't think so.

If you want to believe that if the coaches had something in place and they never went out and did it, that in some world that's wrong? That's on you. Not discussing that further. I stand by my point of view.

To an extent I can agree with you about the players. But I am not putting all my Easter eggs in one basket... I mean no one say SP getting a year.

The Elephant in the room is the rule. Bascially, you can't have essentially an office pool of any kind. They can't have a play for incentive program including for fumbles, sacks, ints's what have you. Even though every former NFL player seeming agrees they have... its against the rule.

Also just because you saw a crime and didn't say anything doesn't let you off the hook.

So you see your friend kill someone in front of you and you don't call the police... you are actually committing a crime by not calling the police.

So I am not even going to guess what a player should get... this could go anywhere as a result of SP's suspension.

I personally hope it turns out that most of the "evidence" was trumped up. This would be a big egg in the face of the NFL & could possibly cause that ****tard, Goodell to step down.

Euphoria,

I disagree to a point but on a separate issue. I personally feel a scheme was in place and I'm ready for this punishment to come and pass and for the organzation to move on.

Was there a bounty scheme? Yes I think they're was.

Did the punishment fit this crime? No, I can only go by what is "precident" for this commisioner and that's "Spygate" to the best of my knowledge.

Is ordering your players to do harm on others on the field, a matter arguably normal practice in the sport, as severe as CHEATING by puting a video camera on opposing teams leading to a game?

That's the question I ponder.

The message sent was this: if you're found guilty in the NFL, NEVER admit to the accusation because you'll get off with a slap on the wrist (a la Bilichick)

If you stand up and admit the wrong you will be punished to the n'th degree, up to losing your job and jeopardising your season.

If you don't think there will be reprocussions because of this foolishness you're out of your mind.

NEVER will a player or Coach stand up (man up) to a wrong committed ever again... why admit to it when you can deny it and get away with practically MURDER.

Seems to me it doesn't matter whether you cop to it or not. Roger will do whatever he will do without regard to proof or evidence or facts or speculation or anything else. The man has a clear agenda and he's not going to let facts stand in the way. Period.

Not sure what you are disagreeing about... I think we generally agree on basically the whole thing.

Here is where I disagree...

The big difference is Belichick had admitted to doing it. He was quoted as saying yes they did it and and he felt it was all fair and part of the game. When asked to turnover all the materials they willingly did so. NO COVER UP, NO DENYING, and they STOPPED doing it.

NFL got wind of the Bounty and told the Saints to stop it. NFL asked again and again about it and Saints denied and then NFL told them to stop it and well they didn't. So I can see that is where the harsh penalty comes from but I still think it much.

So I think the lesson is actually the opposite. If something is wrong and you are asked you better answer honestly and come out with it immediately instead of trying to cover it up.

As I've been saying, it's LAWYER TIME for SP, Loomis & Vitt.

Is it wrong to hope Goodell has a stroke before the season & has to step down or worse? Not that I'm hoping that, just saying.

Not only that but you also have an obligation as a coach, a leader, a role model. To ALWAYS do the right thing.

If it was going on... I don't care who you are you need to stop it or say "I think that is wrong and a violation of a law somewhere". Even seek higher ups to point out something isn't right with this procedure. Its a morale issue as well.