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pakowitz 04-21-2004 03:59 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
By Stewart Mandel, SI.com

Theoretically, NFL execs are evaluating the same players you and I and other college football fans watched for the past four years, but you'd never know it sometimes by the way they mysteriously inflate or deflate some prospects' stock. What exactly are they seeing that makes Florida State's Greg Jones one of the top three or four running backs in this draft despite not finishing among the nation's top 100 rushers last season? What exactly did Rashaun Woods do wrong to be ranked behind at least six receivers whom he outperformed the past two seasons?

Here is my second annual "Overrated and Underrated" list of prospects at each position, based solely on my impressions after watching them throughout their college careers.

Quarterback


Overrated: Eli Manning, Ole Miss.
Is he a very good quarterback? Yes. Would he be considered the No. 1 overall pick with any other last name? I highly doubt it. By any measure, Manning, who completed 62.4 percent of his passes for 3,600 yards, 29 touchdowns and 10 interceptions, was no better than the fifth-best quarterback in the country last season (he actually finished 17th in pass efficiency). And that was a big step up from the previous two seasons, when his production wouldn't have merited inclusion in the top 20. You'd expect a "franchise" quarterback to have monster performances in his team's biggest games. Manning had his worst game of the season (16-of-36, 200 yards) in the Rebels' first-place showdown with LSU. He's a solid performer with a strong arm, but he simply doesn't dazzle you like some of his peers at the position in this draft. You could argue that he also didn't have as good a supporting cast -- can you name one Ole Miss receiver? But the Rebels were good enough to go 7-1 in the toughest conference in the country last season and only on a few occasions was it the direct result of Manning taking over the game.


Underrated: Philip Rivers, N.C. State
Rivers' college career -- the second-most productive in NCAA history, capped off by a senior season in which he led the nation with a 72.1 completion percentage to go with 4,491 yards, 34 touchdowns and just seven picks -- was the ahtletic equivalent of graduating with a 4.0 from Harvard. Only the NFL would say, "That's nice, but there's two guys we like better." Is it because of Rivers' unconventional release? Try asking Florida State's defenders from the past four years, many of whom have gone or will go on to the pros, whether that motion hinders him at all. Rivers was one of the most intelligent, mistake-free QBs college football has seen, very reminiscent of a Tom Brady or Joe Montana. Week in and week out he led N.C. State against teams that often had superior talent but were quickly neutralized by Rivers' leadership. Witness his two wins and near-miss last season against the 'Noles, his dramatic comeback against Ohio State that ultimately fell just short, or his four impressive bowl-game performances. Someone is going to get this guy later than they really should and be very happy.



want more? click here:


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...der/index.html

DatFu 04-21-2004 04:17 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Overrated: Jonathan Vilma, Miami
Vilma gets a lot of credit for three reasons: 1) He\'s a recognizable face from a Miami team that played for two national championships, 2) he played the anchor role in the \'Canes\' dominant defense and 3) he\'s a hard hitter who often made the SportsCenter highlights with his bone-crunching tackles. Fact is, the middle of the field is where Miami was the most vulnerable the past couple seasons (see their past two Virginia Tech games and in the 2003 Fiesta Bowl), and the \'Canes\' more versatile linebacker was Vilma\'s classmate D.J. Williams. What\'s most puzzling about Vilma\'s high NFL stock is that he\'s noticeably undersized (6-2, 220), usually a death knell for such prospects. Chances are he\'s benefiting from the success of his \'Canes predecessors (Ray Lewis, Dan Morgan) and the assumption, based on Miami\'s long track record, that he\'ll follow in their path.

i tooken this from the same article. not real smart to draft a guy that aint gonna help us none against the run. clayton or woods is gonna be the best we can get in our slot pick in the round 1.

chRxis 04-22-2004 10:49 AM

Overrated & Underrated
 
you can\'t be serious with thinking for a second that woods or clayton would be our pick at 18... you can\'t be friggin\' serious... with all the holes on defense, you would rather pick an offensive player?... wow....that\'s retarded.... are you mickey loomis? is that you mick? it\'s gotta be to come up with that insane pick.

DatFu 04-22-2004 11:02 AM

Overrated & Underrated
 
its a draft plan lots of teams use called best player avialable. if the best player is a wide receiver, then its retarded not to take him.

other than that read the forum rule .

Quote:

No Personal attacks toward other members: Arguments about the Saints are welcome but when name calling and attacks are a part of your post it will be deleted. You will receive a warning in your private message box, but if you persist you may be banned.
[Edited on 22/4/2004 by saintz08]

Chuck 04-22-2004 11:40 AM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Quote:

its a draft plan lots of teams use called best player avialable.
No coach uses that, its a smoke screen, people ask the coach who they are going to draft and they say best player avaiable becuase they don\'t want anyone to know untill draft day. If best player vaiable was true then the 1st overall pick should be Sean Taylor but lets see if that holds water.

Quote:

other than that read the forum rule .
chrxis attached your post, not you so technically he didn\'t break a rule. Thats like last year when i was all in favor of passing on Trufant and getting Sullivan, That idea like your posts are retarded. The only thing he called YOU was mich, are you really going to cry about that.

This is a personel attach

Quote:

Chuck has a girlfriend? Whats her PSI?
but keep it on there becuase im pretty sure its the only slightly interesting thing you have posted.


[Edited on 22/4/2004 by Chuck]

saintz08 04-22-2004 12:03 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Alright DatFu , here is your chance to respond to a post without any cuss words or verbs that imply any profane actions .

For instance :

Saintsfan , I am King and you shall bow behind me and kiss my *** .

This is not an acceptable response .....

I am working with you , rather then editing you here .... ;)

saintfan 04-22-2004 12:28 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
move your nose ;)

Wait. How\'d I get dragged into this here? I\'ve had a busy week defending my right to seek proof. I deserve a little R&R dangit.

Eli is overrated...and he\'s a punk too! ;)

[Edited on 22/4/2004 by saintfan]

DatFu 04-22-2004 04:28 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
yeah you guys is all totally right about everything you ever say in here. we got long term answers for wide receivers for the next 10 years. it would be dumb to take a wide receiver if any other player would be a stretch to get. we should just pick will poole and be glad to get him.

turbo_dog 04-22-2004 05:14 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Quote:

its a draft plan lots of teams use called best player avialable.

No coach uses that, its a smoke screen, people ask the coach who they are going to draft and they say best player avaiable becuase they don\'t want anyone to know untill draft day. If best player vaiable was true then the 1st overall pick should be Sean Taylor but lets see if that holds water.
How can you say no coach ever uses it. Don\'t you think that Deuce was the best player available when he was drafted? I think the Patriots are one team that has done well using the best player available technique. Sure you want to address areas of need, but sometimes there may be a player you just can\'t pass up.

Quote:

This is a personel attach

Chuck has a girlfriend? Whats her PSI?
classic.

BlackandBlue 04-22-2004 05:47 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
When was the last time SI was relevant? The 80\'s?

The only overrated player I agree with is Schweigert.

NellyFord 04-22-2004 07:06 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
We should pick me, as much as i know, i\'d be a for sure starter for the WNFL, lol... For all the slow people, Womens National Football League. Most players from big schools are overrated especially players from every conference except the SEC. The SEC is the only conference that has the college equivalent of the NFL and thus is where most of your better players would seem to come out of, except for Florida which doesnt produce much of anything. As for Eli, if he were Eli Brooks, he\'d still be sittin the bench in Mississippi, except he\'d be holding a clipboard.

Saints do not need a WR with the 18th pick, they have enough picks later on that they can pick a WR, I think with one of their later picks if Devery Henderson is still on the board we should think about picking him up, because you can never have too much speed and Stallworth needs a new insurance policy as much as he stays hurt. Osa Lama Laka My Peeps!!

[Edited on 4/23/2004 by pakowitz]

Chuck 04-22-2004 09:13 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Quote:

Don\'t you think that Deuce was the best player available when he was drafted?
Coaches go into drafts with and position or two that they want filled, Take last year for instance, We went into the draft to draft a DT ONLY, Haslet had it set in his mind. Under rare circumstances do you pick best player, that only happens when a player like Fitzgerald\'s caliber is still on the board, Like when Duece was left, he wasn\'t suppose to be there, Plus i dont think haslet was all that fond of Ricky and was looking for a Duece type. Best player avaiable is is a stategy used but it\'s not in the First round.

[Edited on 23/4/2004 by Chuck]

turbo_dog 04-22-2004 10:56 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
First you said:
Quote:

No coach uses that, its a smoke screen, people ask the coach who they are going to draft and they say best player avaiable becuase they don\'t want anyone to know untill draft day.
Then you said:
Quote:

Under rare circumstances do you pick best player, that only happens when a player like Fitzgerald\'s caliber is still on the board, Like when Duece was left, he wasn\'t suppose to be there, Plus i dont think haslet was all that fond of Ricky and was looking for a Duece type. Best player avaiable is is a stategy used but it\'s not in the First round.
Which is it?
You just repeated what I said about Deuce being drafted, and you made the same point that I was making.

Chuck 04-23-2004 07:37 AM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Did you read both posts, becuase if you did, then you should understand but i\'ll explain.

Coaches go into the draft , Not with best player avaiable stategy, but to fill a desired position. When somebody of Dueces caliber falls, that throws coaches off their game plan and they grab that player. Right now Haslet is probally going line backer, but if Fitzgerald falls and only him, that is the only person that would set Haslet off his desired path.

top ten prospects only happens like once or twice a draft, its rare and three years ago we were lucky to get Duece.

Again, if everybody was doing best player avaiable then why don\'t Sean Taylor be the 1st overall pick, he might not even be a top ten

[Edited on 23/4/2004 by Chuck]

Boccal 04-23-2004 08:14 AM

Overrated & Underrated
 
CHUCK !!!!!!!! .....Do you really think that Sean Taylor will slip past the 10th overall pick? If he slips past 7 or 8 the saints should trade up and get him. But as we all know (everyone but Chuck that is he will be gone like the wind). So please think before you just post something.


(The above listed post was not a personal attack on Chuck or any other party that post in this Forum) ;)

Chuck 04-23-2004 09:35 AM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Boccal, I know that chances are he will be a top 5 BUT he is a safety and that is high for a safety, history has shown that only 1 safety in the last TEN YEARS has been taken in the top ten, (williams). and becuase of what history has shown its a possibility that he might fall to a 11th or 12th pick although highly unlikely,

Quote:

So please think before you just post something.
There will be draft surprises and if you ever try to predict one you are going out on a limb, and with the little knowledge i have im trying to have fun and predict one,

So Mr. Boccal, You have to understand that there are going to be predictions that you don\'t agree with but in the end and when the draft actually happens your going to realize that nobody predicted it excatly right and you just like I and everyone else will be together in realizing that we were all clueless to the final results just like we are every year. ;)


Boccal 04-23-2004 11:14 AM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Ok..ok Chuck I see your point, but really do you see him slipping out of the top 10. Since he is the best prospect in the draft. I know that the draft is unpredictable...but i will go out on that limb and say he will be gone by the sixth pick and if thats wrong the 7 or 8 or 9 (I\'ll keep going till he\'s drafted If i have to lol).

Chuck 04-23-2004 01:58 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Quote:

but i will go out on that limb and say he will be gone by the sixth pick and if thats wrong the 7 or 8 or 9
I absolutly agree, I\'m just saying that i wouldn\'t be surprised if he was picked between 1 - 12. And I also agree that he is the best prospect.

DatFu 04-25-2004 10:28 AM

Overrated & Underrated
 
i guess that no team decides there picks on best player available. it was all a big smokescreen and we were goin for a defense end from the start. :casstet:


turbo_dog 04-25-2004 12:21 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
Good call.

Chuck 04-25-2004 12:28 PM

Overrated & Underrated
 
What can i say Datfu, I\'m having trouble coming up with any kind of explanation for drafting will smith, right now im looking like an idiot for argueing the best player avaiable theory but I can\'t keep myself from thinking there is more to this than we know.

but your right, saints did draft best player avaiable


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