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The Union Weighs in On Player Punishments

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by pherein Not really, they look at if he violated those rights bestowed upon him. Vilma just has to show probable cause. If a judge see not evidence that shows Vilma's involvement, and that Godell didn't "fine Player ...

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Old 05-04-2012, 08:45 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by pherein View Post
Not really, they look at if he violated those rights bestowed upon him. Vilma just has to show probable cause.
If a judge see not evidence that shows Vilma's involvement, and that Godell didn't "fine Player in a reasonable amount",
that is probable cause, and it goes to trial.
This one caption is the problem.

"reasonably judged by the League Commissioner "

Reasonably being extremely subjective. While you and I see the punishment as unreasonable, if the NFL did a poll, i would be willing to bet 95% of Atlanta and Minnesota fans would say it is reasonable. probably a 70% for the other 29 teams fans. We lose heavily in the court of public opinion.

Now throw the issue of "player safety" on the tail end of reasonable, what Judge or jury is going to say a suspension is unreasonable. Termination... maybe. You get a Judge or jury that think football is a barbaric sport and there is nothing unreasonable when it comes to making the game safer....

Its how you spin it my friend, and this is soooo easily spun out of our favor.


Please do not misconstrue any of my comments or postings. I am playing devils advocate because that is the only way to fully understand which route or obstacles could come up.

I have absolutely NO problem with bounty programs.. None, zilch, nada... if you are going to tell me 10k is going to make someone that makes 1M a year preform better ill tell you we just made the jump to ludicrous speed.

If you are going to tell me that only 4 players in the NFL are guilty, we just made the jump to double ludicrous speed.

if you are going to tell me that Harrison, Suh, or LT need $ to try to take a QB out of the game.... Well that's just crazy talk.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by x626xBlack View Post
This one caption is the problem.

"reasonably judged by the League Commissioner "

Reasonably being extremely subjective. While you and I see the punishment as unreasonable, if the NFL did a poll, i would be willing to bet 95% of Atlanta and Minnesota fans would say it is reasonable. probably a 70% for the other 29 teams fans. We lose heavily in the court of public opinion.

Now throw the issue of "player safety" on the tail end of reasonable, what Judge or jury is going to say a suspension is unreasonable. Termination... maybe. You get a Judge or jury that think football is a barbaric sport and there is nothing unreasonable when it comes to making the game safer....

Its how you spin it my friend, and this is soooo easily spun out of our favor.


Please do not misconstrue any of my comments or postings. I am playing devils advocate because that is the only way to fully understand which route or obstacles could come up.

I have absolutely NO problem with bounty programs.. None, zilch, nada... if you are going to tell me 10k is going to make someone that makes 1M a year preform better ill tell you we just made the jump to ludicrous speed.

If you are going to tell me that only 4 players in the NFL are guilty, we just made the jump to double ludicrous speed.

if you are going to tell me that Harrison, Suh, or LT need $ to try to take a QB out of the game.... Well that's just crazy talk.
I like that you are playing devils advocate. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Yours is no less valid than mine. Its all cool.

The problem I see with this is:

reasonably = evidence

There is none. I say that because its the one of the true facts of Vilma's case. Goodell will be forced to show his evidence to support his position to a judge, and probably be ask to explain why Vilma was not shown it, and it got this far.

No spin will work with a judge if they can't prove he paid or received payment for injuring players.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:03 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by pherein View Post
I like that you are playing devils advocate. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Yours is no less valid than mine. Its all cool.

The problem I see with this is:

reasonably = evidence

There is none. I say that because its the one of the true facts of Vilma's case. Goodell will be forced to show his evidence to support his position to a judge, and probably be ask to explain why Vilma was not shown it, and it got this far.

No spin will work with a judge if they can't prove he paid or received payment for injuring players.
ok an honest question... If a judge asks for evidence or testimony, do you actually think that Greg Williams would not happily sit on the stand, point at Vilma and say, "he participated with me in this".

Logic does seem to side with Greg Williams not being able to conduct a Bounty Program with just Fujita and Hargrove?
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:44 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by x626xBlack View Post
ok an honest question... If a judge asks for evidence or testimony, do you actually think that Greg Williams would not happily sit on the stand, point at Vilma and say, "he participated with me in this".

Logic does seem to side with Greg Williams not being able to conduct a Bounty Program with just Fujita and Hargrove?
I really don't know. You think he would commit perjury to save his job ?
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:51 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by pherein View Post
I really don't know. You think he would commit perjury to save his job ?
Ill spin it and rephrase.

Do you think a man who conducted an illegal bounty program to purposefully hurt players would say something dishonest?

That's not a very far fetch.
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