Vilma’s lawyer calls NFL process “a kangaroo court”
 

On Monday, lawyer Peter Ginsberg submitted a 17-point request to the NFL for information regarding the allegation that Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma was involved in a bounty program. On Tuesday, Ginsberg said he has heard nothing in response.

Ginsberg discussed the situation on WWL radio, and he used strong words to describe the league’s investigative process.

“The fact that we haven’t received a single piece of evidence from the Commissioner not only makes the whole process suspect but made it important that we ask the Commissioner as specifically as we possibly could what we think we should be able to see in order to even the playing field and in order to give Jonathan a fair hearing,” Ginsberg said, via Nakia Hogan of the New Orleans Times-Picayune. “And I must say that the Commissioner still hasn’t responded to this most recent request. This is not the first time we have asked them for the evidence.”

Vilma

It's a sad day in America boy and girls when this is allowed to continue. Roger must be FORCED BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY to SHOW THIS EVIDENCE.

If they had evidence they would show it. The commish doesn't have anything and will come out of this badly.(I hope)

I hope you are right. But come on he can't be that stupid to say he has X amount of pages, and this investigation has been going on for three years. Or can he??

If he is working under the assumption that he either (A) will never have to show the evidence or (B) can get away a second time with 'destroying the evidence for the good of the league' then yes, he could very well be that...well...stupid.

He should not be allowed to police his own actions in such a way. That's why I'm all for a player strike, even though I know that won't happen. The truth is all the players would have to do is threaten to do it. Roger and the league would cave inside a week if they did.

The investigation wasn't going on for three years. After the playoff game in 2010 against the Vikings someone went to the NFL and claimed there was a bounty on Favre. The NFL investigated and could find no evidence and closed the case after warning the Saints. Two years later just before the Detroit playoff game in 2012 someone else went to the league and claimed the Saints had bounties going on. The league, at that time, reopened the case and the rest is history. They demanded access to all of the Saints email on the NFL server. It consisted of 18,000 emails and 50,000 printed pages. The only evidence we have heard about from those 50,000 pages is two emails from federal prison from Ornstein jesting, according to him, about bounties on Rodgers and Newton.

He didn't lie, he just didn't tell all of the truth at first. The information above was from Jeff Duncan of the Times-Picayune.

I was leaning towards they had something concrete but now I'm having second thoughts. If the NFL violated the CBA their lawyers didn't do their homework because at that point it would not matter what they had. Even if they believed the odds were in their favor it still would not be worth it.

That slim chance of losing to the NFLPA and the players would be a major defeat and cost a lot of them their jobs along with making the "shield" look like a garbage can lid. If they show beyond a reasonable doubt the players broke rules it would also show the NFL broke rules. You can't sign a contract and only follow the stipulations that serve you and igonre the ones that serve the other party. That is not how an agreement works.
Once you break the agreement you are liable for all damages to the other parties.

There's no question at this point that the NFL is being out-lawyered and outmaneuvered by the NFLPA's lawyers. That "17 point request" from Vilma's lawyer is just balls to the wall awesome. And the NFL's lawyers are starting to look like the Keystone Kops. Every time something new blows up in their face they seem surprised.

This is awesome!

Here's Vilma's lawyer's request. He's like a pit bull.

TwitLonger

Here's what the counsel of #Saints LB Jonathan Vilma sent to the #NFL for the appeal (it's LONG): "We request the NFL to provide immediately the following in order to assure that resolution of this dispute not be delayed and that Mr. Vilma has a fair opportunity as quickly as possible to remedy the harm that is being done to his reputation and to his career:

1. All documents and communications evidencing a “pay-for-performance/bounty” program, including, but not limited to, any ledger, notebook, record or record book, payment slip, note or entry of any sort, or evidencing that no such “pay-for- performance/bounty” program existed and/or involved Mr. Vilma;

2. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma established, or assisted in establishing, a “pay-for-performance/bounty” program or any other program in violation of NFL rules, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not have a role in establishing, or assisting in the establishment of, such “pay-for-performance/bounty” program;

3. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “pledged,” made or received payments of any kind resulting from an opposing player being carried off the field, i.e., “cart-offs,” including but not limited to any ledger, notebook, record or record book, payment slip, note or entry of any sort, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “pledge,” make or receive payments resulting from an opposing player being carried off the field, i.e., “cart-offs”

4. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “pledged,” made or received payments of any kind resulting from an opposing player being unable to return to the game, i.e., “knockouts,” including but not limited to any ledger, notebook, record or record book, payment slip, note or entry of any sort, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “pledge,” make or receive payments resulting from an opposing player being unable to return to the game, i.e., “knockouts”;

5. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “pledged,” made or received payment of any kind resulting from an opposing player being injured, including but not limited to any ledger, notebook, record or record book, payment slip, note or entry of any sort, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “pledge,” make or receive payments resulting from an opposing player being injured;

6. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “targeted” an opposing player in any manner that would violate NFL rules, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “target” an opposing player in any manner;

7. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma engaged “in unsafe and prohibited conduct intended to injure players” or did not engage “in unsafe and prohibited conduct intended to injure players”;

8. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “participate[d] in a program that potentially injured opposing players,” or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “participate[d] in a program that potentially injured opposing players”;

9. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “embraced” a “pay-for- performance/bounty” program or any other program in violation of NFL rules, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “embrace” a “pay-for-performance/bounty” program or any other program in violation of NFL rules;

10. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma offered, paid or intended to pay $10,000, or any amount of money, to any player for knocking Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and/or any other player, out of the 2009 Divisional Playoff Game, 2010 NFC Championship Game, or any other game, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not engage in such activity;

11. All statistics of any nature gathered in the course of the ‘bounty program’ investigation relating to penalties assessed against Mr. Vilma and all other New Orleans Saints players during the years 2009 – 2011;

12. All game film of New Orleans Saints games and players gathered in the course of the `bounty program’ investigation of exhibition games, regular season games and playoff and championship games during the years 2009 – 2011;

13. All tape recordings of any sort gathered in the course of the ‘bounty program’ investigation relating to meetings of any sort that occurred during the years 2009 – 2011;

14. All witness statements, notes of interviews and declarations gathered during the course of the ‘bounty program’ investigation;

15. The names and identification of all persons interviewed by the NFL and all persons acting on behalf of the NFL during the course of the ‘bounty program’ investigation;

16. The names and identification of all witnesses the NFL plans to present at Mr. Vilma’s Appeal Hearing; and

17. All evidence the NFL plans to offer or use in any manner at Mr. Vilma’s Appeal Hearing."

Show us the evidence that he did it, or show us evidence that he didn't. LOVE...IT...

Now let's watch the NFL's spin machine go to work. EFF YOU ROGER!

Wow..that's a pretty thorough list. Think it about covers it!

I love it!!! Burn, Roger, Burn!!!

After reading what Vilma's lawyer is requesting; I'm going to go ahead and say it... Vilma is going to win this one!

I think its all circumstantial. He said she said evidence.

... glad to see this moving out of the court of public opinion/media and into a real court, :mrgreen:.

Did the NFL tweat back? "Your not the boss of me"

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_E2aYF0S5V4...aroo-court.gif

AWESOME !!!!!!!!

I worked in a Financial institution for a while and had to sign several DoJ, SEC, FINRA legal statements regarding compliance.

The request asks for "All documents". I would have thought it would have specifically stated physical or electronic documentation, backup tapes, USB devices like some of the documents I signed previously.

As far as e-mail, there are ways to get it off a messaging system, but depending on how it is pulled out it can become useless in a court due to the possibility of tampering.